U.S. Surveillance shows China Building Man-Made Islands in South China Sea. China Not Happy With Su - Polidicks

[quote]Above the South China Sea (CNN)The Chinese navy issued warnings eight times as a U.S. surveillance plane on Wednesday swooped over islands that Beijing is using to extend its zone of influence. Seeking to further challenge China's military build-up in the South China Sea, the plane conducted a reconnaissance mission over a contested military installation being constructed on a manmade series of islands. The U.S. is considering flying such surveillance missions even closer over the islands and sailing U.S. warships within miles of them as part of a new, more robust U.S. military response to make clear the U.S. does not recognize China's territorial claims. In response to the American surveillance presence, a voice in English could be heard crackling through the radio of the aircraft in which CNN was present. "This is the Chinese navy ... This is the Chinese navy ... Please go away ... to avoid misunderstanding," said a voice in English. The U.S. plane was on a mission to monitor Chinese activities on the island and two others like it, reefs that months ago barely peaked above the waves but now are massive construction projects that the U.S. fears will soon be fully functioning military installations. China's alarming creation of entirely new territory in the South China Sea is one part of a broader military push that some fear is intended to challenge U.S. dominance in the region. Beijing is sailing its first aircraft carrier; equipping its nuclear missiles with multiple warheads; developing missiles to destroy us warships; and, now, building military bases far from its shores.[/quote] Source: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/south-china-sea-navy-flight/index.html[/url]

Real shame all those decades ago China went commie on us after we stopped the Japanese.

I would be concerned if I were any nation in that area. This is clear encroachment by China into territory they have no real right to build in and who's to say how much farther they will build. Especially with the fact that these are going to be military bases, that's a huge security concern

What's worse is that to make these islands they are using sand dredgers. Effectively destroying entire ecosystems in the area. :/

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47767299]What's worse is that to make these islands they are using sand dredgers. Effectively destroying entire ecosystems in the area. :/[/QUOTE] You imply china gives a fuck about the world

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47767340]You imply china gives a fuck about the world[/QUOTE] Well considering their acid rain problem that iirc is still a major problem. (I think they're working to fix it, but it's a very slow effort maybe?) No.

[QUOTE=draugur;47767441]Well considering their acid rain problem that iirc is still a major problem. (I think they're working to fix it, but it's a very slow effort maybe?) No.[/QUOTE] They're fixing it by making new islands to live on. :v:

America plz go. :v:

[QUOTE=Ehmmett;47767205]The idea of the Chinese navy saying "please go away" makes me laugh a little[/QUOTE] Maybe they're mocking North Korea?

Well considering this is another 'WW3' type fear mongering article from CNN that conspiracy nuts often gather around....

it's really impressive what Chinese can build there it's scary what they must do to the coral reefs by dredging, crushing, reinforcing with special materials to make it strong as concrete ...

This is all wrong and stuff, but if US can send their ships and aircraft around that area that is thousands of kilometers away of their borders then Chinese may as well dick wave in their own neighborhood.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;47770442]This is all wrong and stuff, but if US can send their ships and aircraft around that area that is thousands of kilometers away of their borders then Chinese may as well dick wave in their own neighborhood.[/QUOTE] Our Carriers and shit are cleared to be in those waters, and if permission should be revoked they can move out. These Military Installations are not, and are permanent. They could also be a real threat to the general area as well.

[QUOTE=draugur;47767441]Well considering their acid rain problem that iirc is still a major problem. (I think they're working to fix it, but it's a very slow effort maybe?) No.[/QUOTE] Acid rain? Their rare earth metal mines have a 20 square mile sludge lake that is made up of radioactive tailings, heavy metal runoffs and Chinese sewage [editline]21st May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=AntonioR;47770442]This is all wrong and stuff, but if US can send their ships and aircraft around that area that is thousands of kilometers away of their borders then Chinese may as well dick wave in their own neighborhood.[/QUOTE] Our ships are in international waters according to international maritime code, the Chinese are building an island in international waters and claiming that the waters are now chinese, its a big damn difference

I don't see anything wrong with this, except the environmental destruction caused by dredging of the seafloor, among other instrusive practices. If the U.S. can build military bases anywhere they like, then why can't China? I'm not saying either yay or nay here, just why not? (Fishes and environmental issues aside.) [editline]21st May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;47770710]Our ships are in international waters according to international maritime code, [b]the Chinese are building an island in international waters and claiming that the waters are now chinese[/b], its a big damn difference[/QUOTE] Okay I guess that is a concern. Not sure how severe though.

New Civ tech tree unlock: modern era workboats can turn single tiles of shallow water into sand tiles. AI players flip their shit if near their territory.

Regardless of the environmental and political problems, that's some damn impressive engineering.

People are probably going to disagree with me here, I don't think the US is in the wrong but I don't understand why they have to provoke China to prove their freedom of navigation. I guess it's a cultural thing but things would have gone much smoother with a reminder beforehand. Hey, just a reminder that that's still international water, in case of a misunderstanding we are just warning you in advance that we might send some aircraft over that way and in the future shouldn't need to contact you should we do it again. ?? I think actions like this just further promote the arrogant American stereotype. I'd like to hear what you guys think.

[QUOTE=reevezy67;47777938]People are probably going to disagree with me here, I don't think the US is in the wrong but I don't understand why they have to provoke China to prove their freedom of navigation. I guess it's a cultural thing but things would have gone much smoother with a reminder beforehand. Hey, just a reminder that that's still international water, in case of a misunderstanding we are just warning you in advance that we might send some aircraft over that way and in the future shouldn't need to contact you should we do it again. ?? I think actions like this just further promote the arrogant American stereotype. I'd like to hear what you guys think.[/QUOTE] If China doesn't want to get bugged they should stay out of International Waters, let alone claim territory in it.

That doesn't really relate to what I said at all, of course China is in the wrong too, but why cause conflict like that? Politely remind them, then fly over. It's like if someone reserved a seat at their workplace for themselves even though it was for everyone to use, if you just sit on it they might get angry, if you politely remind them that it isn't just their chair and then sit on it then you are giving yourself a valid reason to sit in the chair so they can't get as angry at you.

[QUOTE=reevezy67;47777938] I think actions like this just further promote the arrogant American stereotype. I'd like to hear what you guys think.[/QUOTE] You have to understand the way the world works in relation to area claims. Anyone can say they claim a particular area. However, its not recognized generally unless there is enforcement of that claim. Which generally means sending the military in to establish a history of controlling that area. You also have to remember that at the end of the day, "international laws" are just guidelines to nations. Nations generally only follow international laws when it suits them, ignoring those laws when it doesn't. So if China is allowed to establish claim over that area with their military then they will truly own it. Because in the mind of the Chinese no one contested it. If you contest such claims later after they've been established then they will fight that much harder to keep those claims than if you contested it while they try to establish the claims. Also, as far as to why America is the ones doing this mostly is because our allies in the region expect us to. The claims the Chinese are making in the area are very large and overlap claims and EE zones of our allies in the region. Japan, Philippines, Vietnam (yeah, the one we had a war with back in the 70s), Korea, etc. Most of our allies cannot properly contest the Chinese claims. Or have their military already dealing with other threats. So us basically saying that the Chinese claims are unrecognized helps our allies.

Again, I don't disagree that china is in the wrong at all. America was right to step in, I just feel like the way they did it was overly provocative.

How else would you expect this to happen? Unless we send the military to stare at their military then it would be the same as not doing anything. Only using diplomacy only works when the other is also only using diplomacy for the most part. China is saying those areas are theirs and not using any form of diplomacy over it. Its why China is sending in their military to establish control.

I provided an alternative already that still employs the military to stare at their military, it isn't just diplomacy. I'm not going to repeat myself. This was a bad idea, there's no point in discussing this when no one even bothers to read what I write. Thanks for trying.

[QUOTE=reevezy67;47778070]I provided an alternative already that still employs the military to stare at their military, it isn't just diplomacy. I'm not going to repeat myself. This was a bad idea, there's no point in discussing this when no one even bothers to read what I write. Thanks for trying.[/QUOTE] If your talking about our military telling the Chinese that we view that as international airspace/water then they already do that. And the pilots respond to the Chinese Navy telling them they view where they are as international airspace. We've been doing that for years, as stated in the article. It isn't like the US just decided now to contest their claims. Sorry if I'm missing something, could you elaborate?

Ah, that's my bad, I did read the entire article, but the part where they publicly announced it was only available through a misleading URL in the article so I missed it. I just assumed they flew over there without contacting China first. The article doesn't mention anything otherwise.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;47773160]Regardless of the environmental and political problems, that's some damn impressive engineering.[/QUOTE] Not really impressive. Any asshole can dump enough sand somewhere in the ocean and [I]eventually[/I] make an island if they had enough sand. It'd be impressive if they weren't in the process of dooming our planet while doing so. Ocean life and plants make up a MASSIVE amount of what is considered a vital part of our ecosystem.

Why might this be an issue outside ecological aspects you may ask? Well the South China Sea (SCS) has something like 28 billion barrels of oil under it, and a few trillion cubic metres of natural gas. Not to mention over $5 trillion of the worlds trade passes through the region. China also has pretty much all of its oil come through the sea to reach mainland China, so its in their interest to 'secure' it if you will. However, Japan and South Korea are both also reliant on this trade route for all of their oil, so China building up military assets in the SCS to gain control over it would grant them significant leverage over Japan and SK when it comes to other issues. China has declared the whole sea and "area of core interest" and does not want to negotiate with anyone over its claim, which is disputed by Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines. [URL="http://media.philstar.com/images/the-philippine-star/world/20140911/Nine-dashed-line-South-China-Sea.jpg"]China's claim is the red line on this map, which is huge[/URL]. Real interesting topic.

[QUOTE=gekko;47770779]I don't see anything wrong with this, except the environmental destruction caused by dredging of the seafloor, among other instrusive practices. If the U.S. can build military bases anywhere they like, then why can't China? I'm not saying either yay or nay here, just why not? (Fishes and environmental issues aside.) [editline]21st May 2015[/editline] Okay I guess that is a concern. Not sure how severe though.[/QUOTE] We only have bases in countries where we have their permission and we pay rent. Usually it's a joint base with their military as well. We don't just build them wherever.

Well it is the south [B]China[/B] sea so it's chinese right?