Hey FacePunch, I guess this mass debate thread would probably be the most different from the others.
I honestly want to know whats your views on how schools work and the way people are affected by it.
I guess I might get a bit personal when giving you my opinion but hey, it's facepunch there are friendly people and assholes.
Well first of all, I live in Georgia, one of the most ass-backwards states with schooling ever - Over 50% of schools in my county alone failed in overall GPA.
Now when I see programs like No Child Left Behind I honestly wonder: What the fucks going on behind the scenes?
Last year, I failed my grade. I say this shamelessly because of what I just mentioned. I failed because when I would attempt to get help I'd go to tutorial and we'd sit and just get yelled at then they'd throw more work on our desk.
How is this an approach to helping students in ANY way at all? When that happened I gave up, something that typically never happens to me - I got bad, I started yelling back at teachers, sleeping ALL THE TIME in class, not doing work.
It was stupid of me, I admit but I just want to clarify something; Before all this happened I lived in Florida, and had a great year for the first time ever for me in school. (I used to be bullied, had a lot of problems with others. Then again I was 5'5 and chubby :v: and now I'm 6'1 and skinnier)
I came from walking to my classes, being able to wear whatever I wanted, getting to sit anywhere I wanted to at lunch and being in classes with different people to: Walking in a straight line, being quiet in the halls to get from class and to lunch and back, to a uniform consisting of white or blue polos and they had to be tucked in, to being forced to sit with my preset class, and then to being in a class with the SAME people, not ONCE did it change, it was the same 20 kids in the same classes everyday.
The dress code was so bad we were forced to wear belts, couldn't have our jackets zipped up nor could it be any other color than blue. A teacher RAN up to a student and freaked out because she was wearing a pink belt and lifted her jacket up to check.
It got so bad for me adapting to the point of where I'd get up in the morning, sit in the bathtub for an hour and just stare at the ground blank, pissed about the fact I have to return to this prison.
Now I know this seems irrelevant in some points but when it comes down to it the mental efficiency of a student effects their overall performance in school. It's the little details that can really depress a student and mess with how they see everything.
Think of it, no freedom and having to deal with the same people everyday - no room for meeting others?
It's the small things that count and really hit you hard. The teachers? Nearly every school they could give a shit less about you, the staff is pure garbage, there's no more dedication in the education area.
An honest view on how bullying works is like this: Schools are afraid to do anything, for fuck sake, in my class kids get picked on and the teachers SEE IT and do NOTHING! I know there are many of you who see this in school everyday, sometimes it's even the teachers picking on students.
In the end it comes down to this: You have problems at home, and at school you're going to have problems in life, as I said the mental efficiency of a student is important and when you're killing them inside and causing them to hate everything because of the shit they deal with on a daily basis you're going to have low grades, and a bad history.
Now I know most people just say suck it up but when it's not that easy what is there to do?
What do you guys see? What do you guys think of the american educational system?
I'm sure I left a lot out for personal reasons + the fact it's 5 am.
[QUOTE]Think of it, no freedom and having to deal with the same people everyday - no room for meeting others?[/QUOTE]
That should be of your least concern. School is primarily about teaching skills and passing on knowledge, socialising (although important) should come second. If you failed your grade then you have probably not set yourself in the appropriate work ethic. If you focus on what needs to be focused on and not give up, you should of had little or no problem.
I have no idea of the education system over there so I'm not going to comment on anything else.
Being social is what makes you human. I tried to go for online schooling only to be told I need to be around people to be social. So I'm assuming it takes a role.
Of course being social is what makes you human... but you need to set your priorities. You can still have amazing results at school while retaining a social life. Your problem may be that you think more of the social aspect than the education one, the one which is far more important and is responsible for your grades, which may then lead on to whether or not you could get accepted into (for example) a university, which would determine what kind of job you would end up with.
I put my school work above my social life, and because of that I'm frequently the top performer in any tests we do in my Business Studies class and my Multimedia class, but that doesn't mean I have a complete lack of a social life. I hang out with friends at breaks, I went to a friends' party at new years and tomorrow I'm going into town with them to do shit. It's making a compromise.
What system?
[QUOTE=Antdawg;34029880]That should be of your least concern. School is primarily about teaching skills and passing on knowledge, socialising (although important) should come second. If you failed your grade then you have probably not set yourself in the appropriate work ethic. If you focus on what needs to be focused on and not give up, you should of had little or no problem.
I have no idea of the education system over there so I'm not going to comment on anything else.[/QUOTE]
K-12 is not really about the actual knowledge.
With the exception of very basic knowledge, it's about learning how to work, learning how to learn, and learning how to interact with people. So yes, social skills are important.
Once you get to college, then it's more about the actual information.
[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;34030241]K-12 is not really about the actual knowledge.
With the exception of very basic knowledge, it's about learning how to work, learning how to learn, and learning how to interact with people. So yes, social skills are important.
Once you get to college, then it's more about the actual information.[/QUOTE]
I never said social skills weren't important. Also, K-12 still does involve plenty of actual work, here for sure you need to achieve certain marks in your final examination which determines if you are capable of entering a course at university.
For example, a course I'm aiming at at a certain university (Bachelor of Business and Commerce) requires an ATAR (rank) of 75, which is based off of your final examination and some assessments from the final year.
Wow, a brilliant example of a terrible start for a "debate".
You drew a connection between two seemingly unrelated issues and ranted about it on a personal level. I see no fact in this. Your poor work ethic and lazy attitude has nothing to do with the education system at all. It just sounds like you're venting frustrations while looking for excuses to explain your own inadequacies as a student.
Okay so what I'm getting is you think that I chose to be dumb? Did you read the fact that I attempted to get help only to be shot down yet again?
American schools are plagued with bad decisions made in the past in regard to how kids learn and work. It sounds like your school is just full of people who don't really care about teaching.
Really though, grades in High School aren't that important in my experience. It helps but really, it's about learning and self-improvement. I'd hope you're at least learning something.
Maybe if you're really feeling discouraged about your teachers you could talk to a counselor or someone you could trust there?
America has great higher education. Its public school system is straight crap and does little to prepare the children for life. America is also a nation plaqued by political correctness. Even history gets altered because America is so sensitive about race and doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I remember my teacher distinctively making all indigenous of the Americas out to be peace loving hippies before bad white people came & fucked it all up. Never mentioned the shit that went on with the Aztecs. You could learn more from the internet than American public schools.
[QUOTE=Hellstrom;34040216]America has great higher education. Its public school system is straight crap and does little to prepare the children for life. America is also a nation plaqued by political correctness. Even history gets altered because America is so sensitive about race and doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I remember my teacher distinctively making all indigenous of the Americas out to be peace loving hippies before bad white people came & fucked it all up. Never mentioned the shit that went on with the Aztecs. You could learn more from the internet than American public schools.[/QUOTE]
I have to disagree with great higher education. College education seems to just have turned into a business, kids get into a mountain of debt in college, get out and find an average job and are stuck paying back loans for eternity.
[url]http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/college-education-shocking-new-research-that-proves-that-our-college-students-are-learning-next-to-nothing[/url]
Check out this study that was done indicating that many college students are barely doing any actual learning. It's pretty shocking.
I'm nearly at the end of my college education and I think there is next to nothing I learned here that I couldn't have learned on the internet and/or from reading books on my own (aside from experiments with science lab equipment, etc). It's just that without a college degree, there isn't a very realistic shot of getting hired at a decent job.
You no longer "stand out" with a college degree anymore, you're just another face in the crowd. It seems as if college students are being forced into paying for a degree, up to their eyeballs in debt, in order to secure even an "average" life these days (unless of course someone is comfortable with starting their own business.)
America's educational system looks poor on paper and in some places is, but it's mostly because of the fact that the population is so huge. There's also other factors, like language barriers and social conditioning of minorities (blacks for example will do worse on a IQ test if they know they'll be compared to whites instead of just other blacks). Certain cultural influences also add their own challenges.
Long story short, while the system definitely could use more funding in some places, it's not as broken as it seems.
Also, no racism intended in this post at all, just sharing something from a study I read about. Not saying blacks actually have a lower IQ.
I think the main thing we need to fix is our political education. In CA only one semester of gov and one semester of econ are required. The whole point of education in a democracy is to make smart informed voters, and yet we only have two semesters of the things that can truly make smart voters in the country. So our voters are fail and our political system just becomes more fail and only those that decide to get educated in politics gain control.
[I]Edit:[/I]
In actual response to OP, a lot of high school teachers are people who didn't want to go be a high school teacher but got stuck with it, so are not very enthusiastic about their jobs. I had very good high school teachers but I did realize that there were some who were not happy. It sounds like you just got unlucky. I agree with the above posters that K-12 is moreso about learning how to work hard, as all the textbook knowledge you learn in K-12 is next to useless for preparing you for college. College has become very much so a business but for the few that come out of it with masters and PHDs they can go on to do some incredible things, the research opportunities at many of our colleges is also pretty amazing next to other countries higher education so even though I'm already halfway buried in debt I still think our higher education is pretty good.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;34029880]That should be of your least concern. School is primarily about teaching skills and passing on knowledge, socialising (although important) should come second. If you failed your grade then you have probably not set yourself in the appropriate work ethic. If you focus on what needs to be focused on and not give up, you should of had little or no problem.
I have no idea of the education system over there so I'm not going to comment on anything else.[/QUOTE]
Well here is the problem. Even if you focus on what needs to be focused on you can still fail because if you have any road bumps, proper assistance isn't always available. The school system is fine for someone who finds no challenge learning, but for just about everyone else, it tends to lean more towards failure.
In fact, our school system is absolutely great for a select few students, they can pass through school with absolutely no problem, even get honors and go on to a very nice college. But what happens if you fail a class, like math for instance? You get held back, and put into a slower math class, where they teach half the material in the same amount of time. If you get put into this early, you are almost guaranteed never to get out because if you pass from that class, you still have only half the knowledge you need in order to get into the class you [i]should[/i] be in at your grade level.
This results in people graduating and dropping out of highschool with less knowledge and skills then someone who doesn't take these classes. You are put on the slow road and forgotten about.
I can't fully articulate everything, but the movie "Waiting for Superman" is incredibly good at explaining the plights of the American public school system.
[QUOTE=Noble;34043626]
[url]http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/college-education-shocking-new-research-that-proves-that-our-college-students-are-learning-next-to-nothing[/url][/QUOTE]
[quote]U.S. college students spend 24% of their time sleeping [/quote]
That's disgusting
How dare college students sleep for almost six hours a day
I understand the OP to an extent. I go to an all boys boarding school, and it's probably the most stressful experience that I've ever had to go through. We wear full suits every day, and we get at least two hours of homework each night. All of the faculty watch you, making sure that you aren't doing anything bad. It sounds like I mean this in a bad way, as if I want to do something bad, which I don't. I just don't like being controlled to such an extent; having eyes on me almost at all times. The school is made up of two hundred kids, and that's it. You don't like them? Well, that's too bad because you have to live with them. If you simply get too much homework, then you have to secretly stay up to complete it, because you're not allowed to be out of bed after the curfew, which is 10:30 P.M.
Remember kids, boarding/private school is not worth the money, ever. Wait until college to pour your cash or loans into schooling.
[QUOTE=Noble;34043626]I have to disagree with great higher education. College education seems to just have turned into a business, kids get into a mountain of debt in college, get out and find an average job and are stuck paying back loans for eternity.
[url]http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/college-education-shocking-new-research-that-proves-that-our-college-students-are-learning-next-to-nothing[/url]
Check out this study that was done indicating that many college students are barely doing any actual learning. It's pretty shocking.
I'm nearly at the end of my college education and I think there is next to nothing I learned here that I couldn't have learned on the internet and/or from reading books on my own (aside from experiments with science lab equipment, etc). It's just that without a college degree, there isn't a very realistic shot of getting hired at a decent job.
You no longer "stand out" with a college degree anymore, you're just another face in the crowd. It seems as if college students are being forced into paying for a degree, up to their eyeballs in debt, in order to secure even an "average" life these days (unless of course someone is comfortable with starting their own business.)[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that's less of the fault of the colleges and more of the fault of the people attending. Most kids these days are forced to go even when they really aren't cut out for it or have no idea what they want to do. It's engrained in the youth that YOU MUST GO TO SUCCEED! When it only drags them down with debt.
[QUOTE=Contag;34044357]That's disgusting
How dare college students sleep for almost six hours a day[/QUOTE]
The article wasn't saying that students are sleeping too much. Here's the full quote
[quote]Well, according to the study, U.S. college students spend 24% of their time sleeping and 51% of their time socializing.
Oh, and they spend about 7% of their time studying.[/quote]
[QUOTE=ice445;34045006]I'm pretty sure that's less of the fault of the colleges and more of the fault of the people attending. Most kids these days are forced to go even when they really aren't cut out for it or have no idea what they want to do. It's engrained in the youth that YOU MUST GO TO SUCCEED! When it only drags them down with debt.[/QUOTE]
True, but the staff would also have to take some of the blame for allowing it. The main problem is that if everyone can get through college with sub-par work, how does that make you stand out when you graduate? Unless of course you get in even more debt to get a masters degree of course.
[QUOTE=Grabigel;34044463]I understand the OP to an extent. I go to an all boys boarding school, and it's probably the most stressful experience that I've ever had to go through. We wear full suits every day, and we get at least two hours of homework each night. All of the faculty watch you, making sure that you aren't doing anything bad. It sounds like I mean this in a bad way, as if I want to do something bad, which I don't. I just don't like being controlled to such an extent; having eyes on me almost at all times. The school is made up of two hundred kids, and that's it. You don't like them? Well, that's too bad because you have to live with them. If you simply get too much homework, then you have to secretly stay up to complete it, because you're not allowed to be out of bed after the curfew, which is 10:30 P.M.
Remember kids, boarding/private school is not worth the money, ever. Wait until college to pour your cash or loans into schooling.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with that last statement. There are several private schools in my area that cost as much as a decent college education, and they give the same education as public schools.
and I think that this problem is with the Georgia schools, not america as a whole. My school is fine. Though I also think part of it has to do with you. I really see no reason why you failed your grade, unless you didn't try, or you have some sort of learning disability. If it is the first, then you need to work harder. If it is the second, then I blame the school for not helping out enough.
IB schools are annoying. They say we are learning stuff ahead of our grade but I asked a fellow from a local public school and he was doing the same stuff in the same grade I am.
One thing about the US education system (or any education system in general), I feel that it should be REQUIRED by the federal government for every high school senior to take a government class which follows the same curriculum nationwide. Every student must pass a federally-made government final (every student in the US taking the same exact test) in order to pass high school, as a nationwide requirement. This would make more educated students and voters on how the government works and their rights in the country. I know that education is a state issue and is an issue of federalism, but I feel it would benefit the country greatly if this was implemented.
Suck it up.
Everyone has to do stuff they don't wan't to do, everyone. You will have jobs you don't like, bosses you don't like, work you don't like, whatever, that's part of life. You can't have it your way all the time, you have to pave your own road. Those who succeed are those who step up and take responsibility for their own life, not blame it on someone else. There is of course exceptions, such as having problems at home, but I didn't see that in your story.
With your current work ethic, you have no chance of passing college if you ever get in. If you choose a heavy work load major, like engineering, you will be spending all day studying and working. I get up at 7, spend around 5 to 7 hours in class taking advantage of the time between classes, and get back to my dorm around 5 of which I spend the rest of the day finishing work till 11:00 pm to 1:00 am. Do I wan't to do it? No. Do I enjoy doing it? No. Do I do it anyway because I am responsible for my own life? Yes. Everyone I have seen in college with an work ethic like you never made it past their second semester. Not because of their teachers, not because of the education system, but because they had no work ethic and blamed it on everyone else but themselves.
I am not perfect, I don't understand everything we go through in class. Guess what I do? I open up my book and study. You do what you have to do. I have strict rules too I must follow and if I don't, I either get kicked out or campus police come arrest me. Those strict rules in high school are preparing you for college and life. Everyone in a high position today got there because they worked hard, not because they all wen't to perfect schools or had teachers that cared about them, but because they took responsibility and lead the direction of their own future. College professors don't care one bit if you fail their class, they get paid either way. No one cares if you fail, because there will always be someone right behind you with more motivation to take your place.
Trust me, this is the time you don't want to mess up. These are the skills you will learn that will determine how successful you will be in life.
Sorry for the long rant.
Well, it's been told that finnish educational system is the best in the world, but i'll think that it sucks. Teaches too much useless things and education isn't really effective. It's bit unmotivating and uses too old methods (except some new teachers and schools in richer munipalicities).
Also socializing is really importand, i have beend told in entrepreneurship course offered by Helsinki entrepreneur organization that employers want 90% goodguy and 10% skill, and social network is really importand in order to set up a producting company and to get good job.
Anyone who is further interested in this matter or would simply like to indulge in a documentary I'd recommend you watch 'waiting for superman'.
I used to think the school system was a crock of shit, but after straightening out my work ethic I realized that in terms of things that actually matter later in life you only get out what you put into it.
[QUOTE=Ragy;34071076]Suck it up.
Everyone has to do stuff they don't wan't to do, everyone. You will have jobs you don't like, bosses you don't like, work you don't like, whatever, that's part of life. You can't have it your way all the time, you have to pave your own road. Those who succeed are those who step up and take responsibility for their own life, not blame it on someone else. There is of course exceptions, such as having problems at home, but I didn't see that in your story.
With your current work ethic, you have no chance of passing college if you ever get in. If you choose a heavy work load major, like engineering, you will be spending all day studying and working. I get up at 7, spend around 5 to 7 hours in class taking advantage of the time between classes, and get back to my dorm around 5 of which I spend the rest of the day finishing work till 11:00 pm to 1:00 am. Do I wan't to do it? No. Do I enjoy doing it? No. Do I do it anyway because I am responsible for my own life? Yes. Everyone I have seen in college with an work ethic like you never made it past their second semester. Not because of their teachers, not because of the education system, but because they had no work ethic and blamed it on everyone else but themselves.
I am not perfect, I don't understand everything we go through in class. Guess what I do? I open up my book and study. You do what you have to do. I have strict rules too I must follow and if I don't, I either get kicked out or campus police come arrest me. Those strict rules in high school are preparing you for college and life. Everyone in a high position today got there because they worked hard, not because they all wen't to perfect schools or had teachers that cared about them, but because they took responsibility and lead the direction of their own future. College professors don't care one bit if you fail their class, they get paid either way. No one cares if you fail, because there will always be someone right behind you with more motivation to take your place.
Trust me, this is the time you don't want to mess up. These are the skills you will learn that will determine how successful you will be in life.
Sorry for the long rant.[/QUOTE]I don't think he was complaining about having an education, I think he was complaining about his school specifically. Plus there is a HUGE huge difference between k-12 schools and colleges and universities.
I dunno about American education. But education here in Canada sucks huge dick to me, at least at this school. We're taught how to do stuff at least a grade late, I mean, I'm in ninth and two months ago we were learning how to MAKE SHAPES BIGGER! On top of that the classes they offer are a joke, the Computer Studies teacher doesn't know a quarter of what he should know, the curriculum is the exact same for that class as it is in eighth grade. Not to mention how the school does jack shit about the people and does nothing to encourage equality. The marking system is ridiculous too, my substitute Science teacher put it like this:
"Say you're at a 75% now, and you miss these two small, meaningless worksheets. Guess what class? Due to your backwards marking system you're at 13% now, I can't control it but if I could I would be doing it differently."
What he's talking about is this cumulative marking system that my school has in place. It makes it much harder to raise your actual mark while making it much easier to fuck yourself over.
I'm not sure I've mentioned the equality here yet, but it's ridiculous. There are insults being thrown around everywhere and the school(s) do nothing about it. It's been like this at most of my schools that I've been to. The LGBT people are treated with disrespect openly, hell even some of the teachers voice their disapproval. Not only that but if you aren't a sports freak or an Xbox gamer then good luck making any friends, as that is the norm here.
Just needed to get that out, not sure how it is in other provinces, but this is pretty much what it's like here in Alberta for me.
I go to a private school in australia where none of this cuntwafflery happens.
[QUOTE=iwancoppa;34108728]I go to a private school in australia where none of this cuntwafflery happens.[/QUOTE]
Lucky bastard.
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