• The Luxury of Social Issues
    7 replies, posted
I'm an atheist liberal living in a house of conservative Christians. They all pretty much know about both of those issues, and for the main part we get along. I've done my best not to rock the boat, and to her credit, my mother has taken to pausing the TV when I come downstairs while she's watching Fox News. But now and then the inevitable conversation comes around about politics, and for the main part such discussions have been civil. For instance, my mother is CONSTANTLY using Fox as her news source, has mentioned her support of Michelle Bachmann, and most recently ordered a T-Shirt of Paul Ryan, because apparently she's been a big fan of his for years before this. I forget exactly how the topic came up. In fact, it came from such an unexpected place I was rather surprised when it turned into a political discussion. But pretty much we started actually agreeing on a couple things, and so she comes at me talking about the election, and how Obama had two years of free reign with a united Senate and Congress, and only got through with the Affordable Healthcare Act for his troubles. And, naturally, she thinks "Obamacare" is a terrible idea and keeps noting how Canadians cross the border for our [I]naturally [/I]superior care... But it came down to her saying how he'd basically done jack shit, and given the threat of a double-dip recession on the horizon, we needed an about-face and NOW. And then she says to me something that confused me, something that in hindsight horrifies me the more I consider it. You see, she knows I object to the Republican agenda on ethical grounds. She's pro-life, and despite being on great terms with either of my two gay best friends, against gay marriage because she thinks someone will try to marry their car... (Okay, that was a [I]slight [/I]strawman, but that was the gist of it. Some crap about how if we redefine marriage as "just love" then it opens the floodgates for all kinds of shit, and Republicans are nothing if not paranoid of people exploiting the system and stealing their beloved tax money) But basically, she tells me, "we don't have the luxury to cast our votes based upon social issues." I'm serious. She said this. It sounds like a canned response, like, these weren't her words she was using, they were some asshole on "The Five." What I gather from this is, she's arguing that it doesn't matter if the Republican platform is reprehensible in terms of civil liberties, because fixing the economy is apparently more important. I told her I disagreed, that I couldn't consider civil liberties a "luxury". And I haven't shifted my position on that matter. Matters of human dignity and freedom are non-negotiable as far as I'm concerned. I consider it base treachery of our moral imperatives that we ignore or even encourage the discrimination and oppression of certain groups of people in exchange for any posed improvement of our infrastructure. It brings to mind the old saying, "those that surrender freedom in exchange for security deserve neither." I will not compromise my humanity for those reasons, and I'm actually disgusted that this is the line of reasoning my own mother adopted in order to justify the patently amoral stance the Republicans have taken with regard to women and lgbt people across the country. And of course, I don't even trust that the Romney/Ryan plan for "fixing" the country is worth a damn to begin with, though I'll be first to admit I know dick about economics. So I'll put it to you, FP: Is it ever justified to forgo civil freedoms for... well, just about anything, really? I'd like to hear what you folks have to say.
If people actually took the time to read up on politics instead of watching bullshit biased TV all the time, they might learn something. You cannot expect to fix 8 years of sideways fucked economy in 4. It's going to take at least another 8 years to get back to where we SHOULD be, let alone any substantial growth. As for voting, I don't vote for one very basic reason: It's the biggest lie we are fed as American's. You like the idea of voting...that's it.
Sometimes you just get people that can't be reasoned with.
people are stupid simple.
She would be right if our economy was akin to what Zimbabwe had. Luckily for us we live in a time of such wealth and peace that social issues can drive a whole vote. I believe watching Fox et al, with their constant scaremongering and bias, has probably caused your mother to believe that things are MUCH worse than they are. Point out to her that she's able to drive on cheap fuel to a nearby supermarket and buy varied and healthy food at whim, perhaps take a quick look at some houses in an estate agent, walk on paved sidewalks and not get shot on the way back, but that she'll still have less money than if she were a man to do this same shopping trip.
"Civil Liberties" is a pretty throw-away kinda phrase, it will mean something different to different people.
[QUOTE=Ruski v2.0;37521064]people are stupid simple.[/QUOTE] There was that german research which indicated that the average voter (we) are too stupid to understand the complex issues that the people they are voting for are trying to solve and therefore cannot invidually make an educated choice :v:
Social issues are not a luxury, they're pretty basic. Even the ancient Greeks knew that, if one's basic needs are fulfilled, they will then muse on nature, their society and, finally, philosophy. As long as you aren't starving or homeless, social issues are very real.
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