Johnson erecting in the polls, almost enough to participate in national debates this fall - Polidicks

[quote]But one candidate has made gains since last month: Libertarian Gary Johnson. In a four-way matchup between Clinton, Trump, Johnson and Green Party candidate Jill Stein, [B]Clinton carries 42%, Trump 37%, Johnson 13% and Stein 5%.[/B] That represents almost [B]no change for either Clinton or Trump, but a 4-point bump for Johnson.[/B] Typically, support for third party candidates fades as the major party tickets are set heading into their conventions. But Johnson's support outpaces that of a typical third party candidate and may prove to have more staying power. One hint that it could fade: Support for both Johnson and Stein appears concentrated among those less enthusiastic about voting this year, suggesting their supporters may be less apt to turn out in the end. Nearly 4-in-10 voters who say they are "not at all enthusiastic" about voting this year say they back either Johnson or Stein, but among those who are extremely enthusiastic, that figure falls to just 6%. And the growing support for third party candidates also seems centered among younger voters, which could prove harmful to Clinton's campaign. [B]Among those voters under age 35, 46% back Clinton, 21% Trump, 20% Johnson and 10% Stein.[/B] Broad support among younger voters helped catapult Barack Obama to the presidency in 2008.[/quote] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-cnn-poll/[/url] :sex101: Need 15% to participate in national debates.

Wish Stein had more support as well but I'm glad there's a chance a third party can appear at a national debate this election. Could help third parties get more known, and not have it stuck between only Democrats and Republicans at these debates. Would be interesting to see what Johnson could bring to the table at a debate.

The fact that young voters support Johnson as much as Trump brings me hope. I don't agree with a lot of his policy, but not much more so than the 2016 GOP platform, and he has the bonus of not being an asshole like Trump.

Do these people even know what Johnsons policies are or are they just voting for him out of protest? I couldn't see how any sane person could vote for Gary "abolish the department of education" Johnson

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50744768]Do these people even know what Johnsons policies are or are they just voting for him out of protest? I couldn't see how any sane person could vote for Gary "abolish the department of education" Johnson[/QUOTE] it starts... but ya i dont see any solutions coming from pro-business policies considering we have the most pro-business government in history and wages are stagnant, interest is stagnant, corporate taxes are low and loopholes a plenty

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50744768]Do these people even know what Johnsons policies are or are they just voting for him out of protest? I couldn't see how any sane person could vote for Gary "abolish the department of education" Johnson[/QUOTE] I don't think most self proclaimed libertarians are even aware of how nuts some of his policies are

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50744768]Do these people even know what Johnsons policies are or are they just voting for him out of protest? I couldn't see how any sane person could vote for Gary "abolish the department of education" Johnson[/QUOTE] I like his social policies but his economic shit is the Libertarian standard: sacrifice 7 goats to the Free Market and it will fix everything.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50744758]The fact that young voters support Johnson as much as Trump brings me hope. I don't agree with a lot of his policy, but not much more so than the 2016 GOP platform, and he has the bonus of not being an asshole like Trump.[/QUOTE] It's sort of a win-win for me, personally. My two candidates of choice are Gary Johnson and Not Trump. If Johnson wins somehow, I'm happy. If he drains votes from Trump and he loses, I'm happy. Of course my preference is the former but I'll settle for the latter.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50744758]The fact that young voters support Johnson as much as Trump brings me hope. I don't agree with a lot of his policy, but not much more so than the 2016 GOP platform, and he has the bonus of not being an asshole like Trump.[/QUOTE] If the republican party is gonna survive into the future either a.) trump-style authoritarian racism/exceptionalism needs to make a comeback in a big way, or b.) it needs to re-brand itself as socially liberal but big on small government - i.e: libertarian.

He'd get crushed in debates. Libertarians believe some wonky shit. He'd almost sound as crazy as donald trump. Probably would give hillary a boost honestly

Trump will be crushed by both.

One of the things that has always kind of bothered me about third parties is that none of them are seemingly present at a local level. I feel like people would be a lot more willing for a third party if they were established in places in offices, but there arent outside of the presidential race.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50744887]He'd get crushed in debates. Libertarians believe some wonky shit. He'd almost sound as crazy as donald trump. Probably would give hillary a boost honestly[/QUOTE] Johnson is the alternative for moderate and disenfranchised Republicans. He's theoretically a bigger threat to Trump than Clinton as he can go after the GOP base. [editline]20th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Boilermaker;50744898]One of the things that has always kind of bothered me about third parties is that none of them are seemingly present at a local level. I feel like people would be a lot more willing for a third party if they were established in places in offices, but they arent outside of the presidential race.[/QUOTE] The Libertarian Party has two former governors on their presidential ticket. They may not have been in the LP at the time of their governorship but they are now and it's a step forward in that respect.

[QUOTE=Boilermaker;50744898]One of the things that has always kind of bothered me about third parties is that none of them are seemingly present at a local level. I feel like people would be a lot more willing for a third party if they were established in places in offices, but they arent outside of the presidential race.[/QUOTE] Local and state is pretty much the only area libertarians have been remotely successful in. [editline]20th July 2016[/editline] Mainly in the southwest so you may just not see them in your area.

I can't wait to get Gar-bear's Johnson all up on me

My biggest selling point for Johnson is the idea of setting a limit on congressional terms. That's super important, and I'd whole-heartedly support that

Would be interesting to see how a Libertarian President would fare with a congress/senate of Republicans and Democrats. You wouldn't be able to pass some of the more fringe Libertarian things, but you might get some kind of odd Balance or just total gridlock since the President is not particularly in cahoots with either side.

why do they need 15% they should make an exception for both green and libertarian parties they cant get the exposure they need without the debates and they cant get in the debates without the exposure

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;50744978][B]Q:[/B]why do they need 15% [B]A:[/B]they cant get the exposure they need without the debates and they cant get in the debates without the exposure[/QUOTE] You answered your own question. It's to keep the two current parties in power.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50744887]He'd get crushed in debates. Libertarians believe some wonky shit. He'd almost sound as crazy as donald trump. Probably would give hillary a boost honestly[/QUOTE] The Libertarian candidates have always been much more "sane" than their constituency. Any serious third-party in America is like that. Johnson's cited the EPA as an example of government regulations that are needed and are working. He doesn't want to privatize roads or outsource fire departments. Economically, he's in the Republican spectrum - conservative, but not anarchist. The number of crazy things he's said (the gold standard) is far less than the amount of crazy shit spewing from Trump (the wall, the war crimes, the muslim ban, the jail women for getting abortions, the anti-vax shit, the 9/11-truther shit). This makes sense when you think about it. People who join third-parties are the fringe, who either [I]want[/I] to be outside the political mainstream, or whose beliefs are so uncommon that they aren't going to get any support from the mainstream two parties. People who might be a closer fit to the Libertarians will probably affiliate with the Republicans instead, just so they're part of the political process. The politicians running under that party, though, need to be sane in order to attract [I]any[/I] mainstream voters. I've actually been recommending Johnson to all of my conservative-leaning friends and family, because he's honestly a better fit for their beliefs than Trump is, and I would be pretty fine with a Johnson presidency simply because he [I]isn't[/I] as crazy as Trump.

[QUOTE=Levelog;50744921]Local and state is pretty much the only area libertarians have been remotely successful in. [editline]20th July 2016[/editline] Mainly in the southwest so you may just not see them in your area.[/QUOTE] I guess I was thinking of the other third parties when I said they were not present on local or state levels. Green Party seems to only have members in California, for example, and they are all pretty much on a local rather than state level. More importantly though, it seems like there are a ton of presidential candidates that no ones ever heard of coming from parties no one knew existed because they arent even remotely established on a local level. That seems a little backwards to me.

Only 42% for Hillary? Oh man that doesn't bode well for her, and I've got the feeling that it can only go down from here on out if the third parties gain traction. And when nobody gets the absolute majority, well, then I think we all know who the House of Representatives will choose.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;50744825]I like his social policies but his economic shit is the Libertarian standard: sacrifice 7 goats to the Free Market and it will fix everything.[/QUOTE] Libertarianism is far crazier than anything Trump has ever said. I don't know how this divide between "socially insane, economically sane" Republicans and "socially sane, economically insane" Libertarians came to be but it's amazing to see.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;50745106]Libertarianism is far crazier than anything Trump has ever said. I don't know how this divide between "socially insane, economically sane" Republicans and "socially sane, economically insane" Libertarians came to be but it's amazing to see.[/QUOTE] It depends what you mean by libertarianism. It has a whole spectrum to 'within reality' to 'so fucking insane it makes trump look normal' and can mean vastly different things to different people.

How can I help bump Johnson up past 15%? Best case scenario is he becomes Trump's Ralph Nader

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50745128]It depends what you mean by libertarianism. It has a whole spectrum to 'within reality' to 'so fucking insane it makes trump look normal' and can mean vastly different things to different people.[/QUOTE] The laissez-faire Reddit/4chan variety with all the pseudo-intellectualism that comes with it. It's so pervasive you can recognize which posters are [I]that[/I] kind of libertarian just by what they say.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50745128]It depends what you mean by libertarianism. It has a whole spectrum to 'within reality' to 'so fucking insane it makes trump look normal' and can mean vastly different things to different people.[/QUOTE] I think the general usage tends to refer to extreme fiscal and social liberalism, otherwise you're better off using terms like classical liberalism or social liberalism.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;50745145]The laissez-faire Reddit/4chan variety with all the pseudo-intellectualism that comes with it. It's so pervasive you can recognize which posters are [I]that[/I] kind of libertarian just by what they say.[/QUOTE] Libertarianism is such an easy ideology, I think that's why a lot of people like it. Everything can be handwaved away with the free market or government incompetence. 'What about the roads [public goods]?' 'Bluster bluster blah blah government incompetence' Literally every point can be responded with that it seems for libertarians, and it pretends that it is some kind of sophisticated analysis when it seems to mostly be learning a few response phrases to every potential hole in your beliefs.

this is a challenge he has to tackle hard-on

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50745176]this is a challenge he has to tackle hard-on[/QUOTE] Johnson needs to get deep into it.