In need of a new ultrabook - Primary options are Vaio Duo 13 or Lenovo Yoga 13
23 replies, posted
Hey everyone. I don't typically (ever) post in this section, but I am in harsh need of a new computer to get me both through my final undergraduate semester as well as my online master's program following soon after.
I have spent a few weeks researching the options on the table, trying to narrow the choices down as much as possible just by establishing what features I desire and what nagging issues are a no-go.
I suppose I'll start with what it is I'm looking for. It is worth nothing that I feel confident that I have narrowed down my choices to either the Sony Vaio Duo 13 or the Lenovo Ideapad Yoga 13, outlined in more detail below, but I am open to suggestion, as I will be the first to admit that this is not my area of expertise.
1. I am really looking at ultrabooks. The lack of an optical drive does not bother me, and the portability and functionality of an ultrabook seems to make this the best option.
2. I want a touch screen/Windows 8 device. I'm completely cool with the fact that some people don't care for these features, but my current laptop is 5 years old running vista, and I have a desktop running Windows 7. I would like my new laptop to be touch-enabled and to operate with Windows 8.
3. Originally I was leaning towards devices running with the new Haswell processor line, but after some thought and looking into what I would be using the device for, I realized that the performance difference between the new generation and the prior one will not be major enough to cause me major problems.
4. I really like the convertible function found in a lot of new Windows 8 devices. They may not always be implemented smartly or in the most productive way, but for the purposes of use for my education/light research for my job, as well as mild entertainment on the side (no heavy duty gaming, as I have a desktop for this), I find the convertible a really appealing idea.
5. Weight is not a huge factor for me. My current laptop is a Gateway FX that really just can't travel at all, weighing around 9 pounds. It's a gaming laptop, which is still going relatively strong, but the size makes it impossible to take with me to class or whatever.
I suppose it makes sense now to outline my thought process about how I got to my current lineup.
[img_thumb]http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/tablets/microsoft/SurfacePro/DSC_9446.jpg[/img_thumb]
[B]Microsoft Surface Pro[/B]
- I originally had looked at the Microsoft Surface Pro, as I thought it was effective enough to do what I needed it to do, while keeping a relatively low profile size-wise. With the primary function of a Surface Pro really being more of a laptop with tablet tacked on due to the slightly higher weight, it seemed like an okay option. But the lack of a variety of external ports turned me off a bit, and my research into other products made it difficult to commit. Additionally, the kickstand is a pretty nifty thing, but the lack of adjustability of the viewing angle, in addition to the limitation it puts on use of the device on your lap or in any other less secure or flat location makes it a bit of a potential nuisance.
[img_thumb]http://en.community.dell.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-components-postattachments/00-20-17-35-07/XPS-Duo-12-convertible-Ultrabook-with-Windows-8.jpg[/img_thumb]
[B]Dell XPS 12[/B]
- I really like the way the XPS 12 transitions from ultrabook to tablet.. I also like the keyboard and touchpad. However, getting the higher-tiered build puts it a bit on the pricey side. Additionally, I have read mixed reviews regarding battery life, which is not an issue when I am around my home, but when taking my device to campus this fall, as a commuter student being able to avoid having to plug in throughout the day is something I look for.
[img_thumb]http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tent-mode.jpg[/img_thumb]
[B]Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13[/B]
- The Yoga 13 really stood out to me, as I like the traditional form factor of having a regular style laptop feel, with the option to position the device in different ways. Stand mode could be accomplished with the XPS 12, same with tablet or traditional laptop mode, and one point of concern I have is about the position of the keyboard when in tablet mode. I was disappointed at the lack of 1080p, and also the last-gen processor, but both of these are very minor complaints about what otherwise looks to be a very solid device with a unique take on the convertible trend.
[img_thumb]http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7029/Duo_13_Black_28_hero06_PenStand.jpg[/img_thumb]
[B]Sony Vaio Duo 13[/B]
- The Sony Vaio Duo 13 really stuck out to me, but also has some pretty major flaws as well. The Triluminous screen looks wonderful, and the device as a whole has been improved greatly from the mixed bag that was the Duo 11. Everything about the device looked great, but unfortunately the "surf-slider" as they call it leaves the screen in a position that cannot be adjusted. This is one thing that makes the XPS 12 and Yoga 13 stand a bit taller, in my opinion, as I can use them in less traditional situations, whereas the Vaio seems limited to a desktop if I am using it outside of tablet mode. From what I understand, however, the view-range is pretty solid, but it's still a potential issue. The battery life is fantastic from what I understand, hovering around 10 hours of normal use.
Generally, the Yoga seems to be the best bet. The last-gen processor and lack of 1080p are bummers, but not deal-breakers. The position of the flipped keyboard is different, but I don't plan to walk around holding this with one hand, tearing out keys, so it may not be a major issue. It's a bit pricey, especially given the hardware, however.
The Vaio is very expensive, but also seems to be a pretty solid device. The lack of adjustability on the screen angle is a bit disappointing.
It really boils down to preference, but unfortunately because I have such little experience with these devices beyond the research I've done myself over the past couple weeks, I am at a bit of a standstill. I've watched all the youtube reviews, checked major sites to read different opinions, and they all have their pros and cons. So I'm hoping to tap into some additional knowledge here. I've perused threads here in the past, and it's apparent that most of you know a great deal more than I do about this stuff. If anyone has any suggestions, or better yet, personal experience with any of these devices, or other possible options, I'd greatly appreciate the input.
I'm trying to avoid making this a typical "lol choose for me pls" thread, I did my research and am simply unable to come to a concrete conclusion. shopping for computers is not something I've had to do in a long time.
It is also worth nothing that I am not terribly bothered by price. I'd like to stay under $1,500 though if possible. I'll be using the device for several years, barring any major catastrophe, so I'm not afraid to spend a bit to get a reliable device.
Thanks in advance for the help, and if I've missed any bit of information about my preferences or whatever, let me know and I'll fill in the blanks.
I'm going to comment my opinions on each one as per your list.
[B]Surface Pro[/B]
Really, the machine is well built. The stylus is great, although I strongly dislike how it attaches. The kickstand is also really boorish, if you ask me, especially without adjustable angles. There is no Haswell version, though, and you really, really want a Haswell ultraportable because the battery life improvements are great. A Haswell version is probably on its way, though.
[B]XPS 12[/B]
I like Dell. This is probably my preferred method of ultraportable tablet/laptop hybrid. The hinge system is surprisingly not shitty, although the keyboard and trackpad suffer, but I also like it for what it is. Also has a Haswell version which will net you a good 6-7 hours of battery life from what I've seen.
[B]Yoga 13[/B]
I hate this type of ultraportable hybrid. Plain and simple. The outward facing keyboard is just weird, and on that note, I'll let Ars Technica tell you [I]exactly[/I] what I think about the Yoga 13.
[URL]http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/a-good-ultrabook-a-bad-tablet-the-lenovo-ideapad-yoga-13-review/[/URL]
The article title says it all: Good ultrabook, bad tablet.
[B]Duo 13[/B]
I like Sony the most. The Duo 13 is real good at what it does, and a lot of people are turned off by the fixed angle, but it proves to be a fit for a lot of people. Can't ignore the stylus, either, which is improved from the Duo 11, as well as a better keyboard and the removal of the awful optical trackpoint. The new trackpad is tiny, though.
All in all, I recommend the machines you listed in this order:
Duo 13, XPS 12, Surface Pro, Yoga 13.
The point about Haswell isn't about performance, it's about battery life. And trust me, battery life is the one thing you didn't know you needed.
Stylus is a must for note-taking. Keyboard is a close second. Drawing graphs and figures is invaluable for class and you can type all the rest up.
Find one with a haswell processor if you're concerned about battery. "Ultrabook" is a kind of gimmick term for thin laptops that aren't slow so you should definitely look at some non-ultrabooks, it's not like they're gonna be THAT thick or heavy.
Wait for the new line of ultrabooks to be released, what with their amazing DPI and haswell as a standard.
Even if they're out of your price range, they're probably going to drive the prices down quite a lot.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;41630228]I'm going to comment my opinions on each one as per your list.
[B]Surface Pro[/B]
Really, the machine is well built. The stylus is great, although I strongly dislike how it attaches. The kickstand is also really boorish, if you ask me, especially without adjustable angles. There is no Haswell version, though, and you really, really want a Haswell ultraportable because the battery life improvements are great. A Haswell version is probably on its way, though.
[B]XPS 12[/B]
I like Dell. This is probably my preferred method of ultraportable tablet/laptop hybrid. The hinge system is surprisingly not shitty, although the keyboard and trackpad suffer, but I also like it for what it is. Also has a Haswell version which will net you a good 6-7 hours of battery life from what I've seen.
[B]Yoga 13[/B]
I hate this type of ultraportable hybrid. Plain and simple. The outward facing keyboard is just weird, and on that note, I'll let Ars Technica tell you [I]exactly[/I] what I think about the Yoga 13.
[URL]http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/a-good-ultrabook-a-bad-tablet-the-lenovo-ideapad-yoga-13-review/[/URL]
The article title says it all: Good ultrabook, bad tablet.
[B]Duo 13[/B]
I like Sony the most. The Duo 13 is real good at what it does, and a lot of people are turned off by the fixed angle, but it proves to be a fit for a lot of people. Can't ignore the stylus, either, which is improved from the Duo 11, as well as a better keyboard and the removal of the awful optical trackpoint. The new trackpad is tiny, though.
All in all, I recommend the machines you listed in this order:
Duo 13, XPS 12, Surface Pro, Yoga 13.
The point about Haswell isn't about performance, it's about battery life. And trust me, battery life is the one thing you didn't know you needed.
Stylus is a must for note-taking. Keyboard is a close second. Drawing graphs and figures is invaluable for class and you can type all the rest up.[/QUOTE]
The Duo has what appears to be a very amazing battery life, and using the touch screen for note-taking and such is definitely a solid plus, and after looking at my list again, really only the Duo and the Surface offer this as a viable option.
I looked into the Duo a bit more and from what I understand the hinge is sturdy enough that you can use the touch screen pretty reasonably in laptop mode without rocking it back and forth too much. This is pretty nifty, as it means I won't necessarily have to switch back and forth to type or write (although my handwriting is shitty and writing at that angle may just make me want to slice my hands off for being so useless).
The review you posted was a good read. I'm not sure how I missed this one, as I thought I'd done a good job scouring for reviews, even finding some video of a dude in dreadlocks reviewing devices. He was pretty cool though. The location of the keyboard is pretty bizarre, and while I've heard rumblings that there is a cover you can buy to protect/hide it when not using it in laptop mode, having to purchase an accessory to make that happen seems a bit much.
[editline]28th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;41630260]Find one with a haswell processor if you're concerned about battery. "Ultrabook" is a kind of gimmick term for thin laptops that aren't slow so you should definitely look at some non-ultrabooks, it's not like they're gonna be THAT thick or heavy.[/QUOTE]
The battery is a pretty important component in the search, which is why the Haswell would be the best option when looking at processors. And I suppose you're right about the ultrabook name. The main focus though was convertibles. I'd like to push into the territory of covering both the laptop and tablet bases without buying two separate devices. If I can find a device that does both reasonably well (like the Duo), then I'm a happy customer.
[editline]28th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Blaberry;41630348]Wait for the new line of ultrabooks to be released, what with their amazing DPI and haswell as a standard.
Even if they're out of your price range, they're probably going to drive the prices down quite a lot.[/QUOTE]
You're probably right about this, but time is a bit of a factor. Classes will be starting in a few weeks, so I'm hoping to settle on one by the end of the week and make the purchase once I am back in the US. The more I look at the Duo, the more it seems to fit the bill. The $1,400 price tag is a bit high, but it seems to have the features necessary to back the price up to a reasonable extent.
Thanks for all the responses, by the way, the help is most definitely appreciated.
[editline]28th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Warship;41630393]Asus has some pretty good ultrabooks too. I myself have a 2012 Zenbook UX32VD which is the best laptop I've ever used. The newer ones have touchscreens.[/QUOTE]
I actually looked at a few Asus devices, and they have a lot of fine products, but one thing that I am really looking for is the convertible functionality. Perhaps it is just me jumping on the new trend and getting excited, but having a more versatile device in that regard really appeals to me.
I'd suggest you to either buy a tablet or an ultrabook and not one of those gimmicky hybrid things.
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;41630704]I'd suggest you to either buy a tablet or an ultrabook and not one of those gimmicky hybrid things.[/QUOTE]
A jack of all trades is a master of none I suppose
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;41630704]I'd suggest you to either buy a tablet or an ultrabook and not one of those gimmicky hybrid things.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the input but I really would prefer the convertible, as I stated in the op. I want the dual functionality of a tablet and a laptop, and I'm willing to sacrifice a bit when it comes to satisfying that. I'll be looking into a new desktop at some point in the future, most likely early next year, so I can have my higher end hardware, but I need something that is relatively portable that satisfies the items in the list I outlined above. I feel pretty convinced by the Vaio Duo, but I'll be going to Saturn downtown tomorrow to play around with a few devices and get a feel for them.
I had a play with the Vaio Duo 13 at the Sony Store in London, and I was very impressed with the feel/build quality. The only thing is using a 13 inch tablet is not that easy, especially one with a fairly large bezel.
[QUOTE=rhx123;41646602]I had a play with the Vaio Duo 13 at the Sony Store in London, and I was very impressed with the feel/build quality. The only thing is using a 13 inch tablet is not that easy, especially one with a fairly large bezel.[/QUOTE]
I usually won't be using tablet mode unless I am somewhere comfortable, like on a chair or couch or at a table or something. I know if I bought a tablet separately, it would get very little use, but having the functionality available in a device that can cover the laptop base fairly well is appealing.
I actually had the chance to toy around with a Duo 13 today at Saturn downtown, and was thoroughly impressed. Wasn't too heavy, especially compared to my current laptop, and the resolution was great. It was responsive, and using the OS felt very natural. I am fairly confident that once I get back to the US, I'll buy one straight away.
[QUOTE=Bentham;41647302]I usually won't be using tablet mode unless I am somewhere comfortable, like on a chair or couch or at a table or something. I know if I bought a tablet separately, it would get very little use, but having the functionality available in a device that can cover the laptop base fairly well is appealing.
I actually had the chance to toy around with a Duo 13 today at Saturn downtown, and was thoroughly impressed. Wasn't too heavy, especially compared to my current laptop, and the resolution was great. It was responsive, and using the OS felt very natural. I am fairly confident that once I get back to the US, I'll buy one straight away.[/QUOTE]
The limiting feature of that thing is adjusting the screen angle though?
[QUOTE=digigamer17;41647571]The limiting feature of that thing is adjusting the screen angle though?[/QUOTE]
Originally I was pretty worried about that, but after toying with it a bit, the viewing angles really aren't bad at all.
[QUOTE=Bentham;41648171]Originally I was pretty worried about that, but after toying with it a bit, the viewing angles really aren't bad at all.[/QUOTE]
Its IPS isnt it?
It should be fine then.
Whatever you go with, if you don't mind getting something that may have been opened and then returned / a damaged box, I suggest you check out amazon warehouse deals [url]http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=1267877011[/url]
Why the Vaio Duo and not the Vaio Pro?
It's basically the best ultrabook on the market, macbook air inclusive
[QUOTE=Darkimmortal;41651553]Why the Vaio Duo and not the Vaio Pro?
It's basically the best ultrabook on the market, macbook air inclusive[/QUOTE]
I can't believe you missed the entire convertible thing.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;41651575]I can't believe you missed the entire convertible thing.[/QUOTE]
Fuck my bad, just never really saw those as something people would actually buy :v
If it helps any, I'm personally looking for an ultrabook too and I've narrowed my choices down to the Asus Zenbook Prime UX51 and Acer Aspire V7. ($900-1700, depending on model and condition)
[img]http://dri2.img.digitalrivercontent.net/Storefront/Company/msintl/images/English%5Cen-INTL_Asus_UX51_CWF-01060%5Cen-INTL_L_Asus_UX51_CWF-01060_mnco.jpg[/img][img]http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/TRBC/Laptops/Acer/Aspire%20V7/acer-screen-900-75.JPG[/img]
Neither of them convert into tablets, no. Both of them are fairly performance-heavy, full-brushed-aluminum 1080p IPS 14-15" touchscreen Windows 8 laptops.
However, even though I own a desktop that satisfies all my performance needs, screen space is fairly important and 13" laptops are just too small to effectively split the screen in half and multi-task.
Touchscreens on windows, in my opinion, is of fairly limited use anyway - I do understand where you're coming from with the convertibles, but a hefty 13" tablet running a non-tablet OS isn't the easiest thing to use casually and you'd be better off just dropping $250 for a Nexus 7 and carrying that with the laptop for that kind of experience.
So keeping that mentality in mind, the above choices are roughly performance-oriented with [b]longevity and ease of use as a laptop [/b]as major considerations and are not meant as a "everything-replacement". They have gaming-laptop hardware, a battery that lasts 4~6 hours and good overall traits for a laptop (low weight, good screen).
Just my $0.02. Although I see the appeal of a convertible fondleslab, there are few situations where a laptop (especially these ones, which have stiff hinges past a certain angle and can fold wide open to compensate for having touchscreens) couldn't substitute for one.
So, I've got an update. I did decide to purchase the XPS 12. I went out to Best Buy, and was playing with a few devices, and while speaking with a rep about the systems I was considering, he told me about an XPS that had an open-item on it. I ended up getting the computer for $670, 40% off the original price. It's in perfect condition, runs great, and I have had a blast with it. I know I was leaning towards the Vaio, but the price on the XPS, which was really my second choice, was tough to beat.
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and advice, it was greatly appreciated.
Did you get the one with Haswell? I believe that one also improves on the keyboard, trackpad and hinge design, too.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;41685312]Did you get the one with Haswell? I believe that one also improves on the keyboard, trackpad and hinge design, too.[/QUOTE]
I believe so, the i5 version, everything runs incredibly smoothly, and I was really blown away by how fast it runs. I've been using a laptop that I got 4 years ago when I graduated high school, so the difference in speed, size and basically everything else is fantastic. Very happy with the purchase, and I know it's going to be great for when I'm going back and forth to school.
The i5 has been a model designation for several generations. If it's something like i5-4XXX (note the 4), you got a Haswell.
Not a Haswell then, which all things considered is still relatively okay. paying $670 for this compared to the $1,400 for the Vaio Duo 13 makes me feel a bit better about the differences.
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