German interior minister floats idea of returning migrants to Greece
36 replies, posted
[img]http://www.dw.com/image/0,,19482035_303,00.jpg[/img]
[quote]German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said on Sunday that he wanted to send migrants back to Greece.
"We have done a lot in Europe in order to improve the refugee situation in Greece," de Maiziere told the "Welt am Sonntag" newspaper. "This must have consequences that will enable refugees to be sent back to Greece according to the Dublin regulations."
The EU's Dublin regulations require the member state where a person first arrived in the bloc to process the asylum application. Due to deficiencies in the Greek asylum processing system and the sheer number of people arriving in Greece, Germany has suspended deportations back to Greece since 2011.
De Maiziere said the European Union first needed to develop a common approach to refugees and Germany could not implement such a policy alone. "When we tackle this problem alone, then there is the danger that in a short amount of time the administrative courts will block deportations," he said.[/quote]
[url=http://www.dw.com/en/german-interior-minister-floats-idea-of-returning-migrants-to-greece/a-19525482]Source[/url]
It's election season, gotta grab me some of those delicious AfD votes.
So pimp smacking Greece with the financial dick wasn't enough, now they want to ruin their situation even more by giving them the people Germany invited which started this whole mess.
Yeah, return the refugees to a country that has no money to take care of them! Great idea!
Not to mention that Greece gets most of the refugees already because of their proximity to Turkey.
Greece can barely take care of its own people, sending migrants there will not end well at all
Jesus fucking Christ. I feel ashamed to be a German after i readed this
Is the German government straight up retarded?
Yes, lets continue to fuck over Greece, the country that is at a relatively high risk of neo-nazis coming to power.
[QUOTE=Thlis;51000266]Is the German government straight up retarded?
Yes, lets continue to fuck over Greece, the country that is at a relatively high risk of neo-nazis coming to power.[/QUOTE]
You mean golden dawn? really? I mean...the guys are just a small minority. Not even in the "Hey it's not going anywhere" thing we said related to Trump, but more in the "hey, they tried to go somewhere and got bitch smacked" thing.
What's with German government and their hatred for Greece?
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;51000288]You mean golden dawn? really? I mean...the guys are just a small minority. Not even in the "Hey it's not going anywhere" thing we said related to Trump, but more in the "hey, they tried to go somewhere and got bitch smacked" thing.[/QUOTE]
They are a small minority, but due to how fragmented the Greek political landscape is right now, they are the 3rd largest party. Pre-crisis, the 3rd largest party was usually the communist one, though it's interesting to note that SYRIZA (the major party in the current governing coalition) used to be 4th or 5th, so things are still really, really volatile.
The good news is that governments in Greece are going to have to form coalitions between parties for a while, and no party is willing to work with the Golden Dawn, for obvious reasons.
Although they have been partially slapped into submission in the aftermath of the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Pavlos_Fyssas]Fyssas murder[/url] and the arrest of some of its members, as the situation deteriorates on multiple levels, a resurgence isn't something you can rule out. Though realistically speaking, the danger they pose is mostly increased violence, they don't have a realistic way to get to power.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51000338]They are a small minority, but due to how fragmented the Greek political landscape is right now, they are the 3rd largest party. Pre-crisis, the 3rd largest party was usually the communist one, though it's interesting to note that SYRIZA (the major party in the current governing coalition) used to be 4th or 5th, so things are still really, really volatile.
The good news is that governments in Greece are going to have to form coalitions between parties for a while, and no party is willing to work with the Golden Dawn, for obvious reasons.
Although they have been partially slapped into submission in the aftermath of the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Pavlos_Fyssas]Fyssas murder[/url] and the arrest of some of its members, as the situation deteriorates on multiple levels, a resurgence isn't something you can rule out. Though realistically speaking, the danger they pose is mostly increased violence, they don't have a realistic way to get to power.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info
A few months from now: Golden Dawn as won the Greek Elections with a majority.
:v:
but they're not greek...
[QUOTE=Sableye;51000647]but they're not greek...[/QUOTE]
Close enough /s
[QUOTE=Cructo;51000807]If this is true then I don't really see a problem here.[/QUOTE]
It isn't. Just a couple weeks ago there was a report in the (dutch) news about the dire state of the refugee camps in Greece.
A lot of the refugee camps don't have enough resources to provide adequate shelter and/or food.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51000799]What happened to the first safe stop policy of you guys????[/QUOTE]
Countries like Italy and Greece should have never agreed to the Dublin regulation in the first place. It places insanely lopsided responsibility to the South due to geographical reasons alone, and even though there have been issues with refugee inflow (and deaths) for years, it was only scrapped when the crisis reached Central Europe.
It was unworkable from the start.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51000807]If this is true then I don't really see a problem here.[/QUOTE]
It obviously isn't. Even the current numbers are not sustainable and urgently need to be redistributed.
It's kinda funny actually. His government pushed really hard for the abolition of the reduced VAT status of the islands (even though the financial effect of that measure is questionable at best), rendering life there pretty unsustainable. The border islands don't have the conditions to hold the asylum seekers, and therefore they are ferried to the mainland.
With the AfD (Alternative für Deutschland, aka far-right populist party) making large strides in the Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state elections today (which also happens to be Merkel's home state) and the fact that the next German federal elections are literally 1 year from now (September, 2017), it seems that a few from the CDU/CSU are floating such ideas or spruiking statements that are designed to counter the ever growing effects from the AfD. Even the CDU's state candidate / leader for Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Lorenz Caffier, was demanding a ban of burqa's from Merkel.
In general, it seems right-wing populist parties are making their return to the European continent. Hell, even former President Nicholas Sarkozy left his long-time party "UMP - Union for a Popular Movement" to stand as a right-wing candidate in the upcoming French presidential elections due April / May of 2017.
[QUOTE=shutter_eye5;51001102]Even the CDU's state candidate / leader for Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Lorenz Caffier, was demanding a ban of burqa's from Merkel. [/QUOTE]
Even the state's SPD seems to be pretty anti-refugee:
[quote]Worried about the rapid rise of the far-right, state officials from both major parties are trying to distance themselves from decisions taken by the national government in Berlin during the refugee crisis.
“To this day, Merkel pretends that Germany could take in everyone who’s persecuted. That’s disconnected from reality,” Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state premier Erwin Sellering of the SPD told Die Welt newspaper. Sellering declined to be interviewed for this article.
Behind Albrecht, a handful of SPD volunteers folded flyers and handed out lollipops. Every one of them was unhappy at the leadership of Sigmar Gabriel, the economy minister and vice chancellor.
Earlier this year, Gabriel made a policy decision that enraged the local party faithful: he decided to raise taxes on petrol even though gas prices had fallen. This caused outrage in a predominantly rural state where many rely on their cars.
“Now people tell us ‘They are raising taxes, and at the same time there’s enough money for all the refugees,’” one of the SPD volunteers said.[/quote]
[url]http://www.politico.eu/article/tipping-point-for-the-german-far-right-alternative-for-germany-angela-merkel/[/url]
But at the end of the day, it looks like the CDU/SPD coalition will hold.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51000205]So pimp smacking Greece with the financial dick wasn't enough, now they want to ruin their situation even more by giving them the people Germany invited which started this whole mess.[/QUOTE]
Germany didn't 'invite' them to Europe, the refugees were already in southern Europe. The Southern European countries were desperately trying to deal with the amount of refugees coming in. Germany then took it upon itself to ease pressure off of those countries by saying the refugees were welcome in Germany with the idea that Germany would face problems because of that decision, but that they would avert a bigger problem from happening in the Balkans and Southern European countries. That is what 'Wir Schaffen es' was about. They would face problems, but they would deal with it.
Sad that they're now considering to fuck over Greece anyway for more votes lol
[QUOTE=phaedon;51001156]Even the state's SPD seems to be pretty anti-refugee:
[url]http://www.politico.eu/article/tipping-point-for-the-german-far-right-alternative-for-germany-angela-merkel/[/url]
But at the end of the day, it looks like the CDU/SPD coalition will hold.[/QUOTE]
It will hold, but, I am concerned with the federal elections. This also serves another warning to both the CDU and SPD that there is enough anxiety currently within German society that they may vote for the AfD come the federal elections. The AfD has been on a upward trend since 2014, in some states holding the largest bloc outright to be more or less the official opposition of some state legislatures, and, with all of the recent incidents that have happened combined with all of the anxiety already from this, I would not be surprised the AfD may get a sizable chunk of seats within the Bundestag next year.
More or less, the whole refugee issue may just be the nail in the coffin for Merkel's CDU, sinking a 10-year rule under 1 leader, albeit having to utilise grand coalitions in 2 cabinets in order to have secure vote supply within the Bundestag.
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;51001199]Germany didn't 'invite' them to Europe, the refugees were already in southern Europe. The Southern European countries were desperately trying to deal with the amount of refugees coming in. [/QUOTE]
Not just southern Europe, this was when the Balkan route became a big thing, basically.
You had big groups of asylum seekers as north as Hungary and Austria. The situation had already gotten way out of hand before any kind of 'invitation' was made.
Greece can not take a break.
[QUOTE=shutter_eye5;51001102]With the AfD (Alternative für Deutschland, aka far-right populist party) making large strides in the Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state elections today (which also happens to be Merkel's home state) and the fact that the next German federal elections are literally 1 year from now (September, 2017), it seems that a few from the CDU/CSU are floating such ideas or spruiking statements that are designed to counter the ever growing effects from the AfD. Even the CDU's state candidate / leader for Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Lorenz Caffier, was demanding a ban of burqa's from Merkel.
In general, it seems right-wing populist parties are making their return to the European continent. Hell, even former President Nicholas Sarkozy left his long-time party "UMP - Union for a Popular Movement" to stand as a right-wing candidate in the upcoming French presidential elections due April / May of 2017.[/QUOTE]
It feels like 2016 is the year of the Far Right Populism with Donald Trump, Brexit and this.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;51001515]It feels like 2016 is the year of the Far Right Populism with Donald Trump, Brexit and this.[/QUOTE]
It's a reaction to the last few years of constant Far Left influence. Far Right/Extremism becoming louder in reaction to liberal governments and politics becoming increasingly bold like Merkel calling for countries to bring in immigrants, liberal protests on college campuses everywhere, BLM, Sanders and his far left political revolution.
It was bound to happen sooner or later.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51000205]So pimp smacking Greece with the financial dick wasn't enough, now they want to ruin their situation even more by giving them the people Germany invited which started this whole mess.[/QUOTE]
Well, considering the exorbitant amount of money EU given Greece and how Greece got into EU under false pretense, they should accept paying it some way. It will be easier sending them back from Greece too if all EU countries get together and help out with that.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51001751]I said it, Ill say it again.
Balkan route became a thing when Greeks stopped detaining refugees on the islands or dropping them off back to Turkey, breaking lotsa international and EU laws, and instead let them move in Greece and by extension to Macedonia, as part of Syriza's policies.
I dont disagree with Syriza, human rights and all. But the spike wasnt because some "German invitation" crap. This isnt a damn party.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on the German invitation myth, but you are wrong in regards to the island policy, it was never a thing.
The islands never had sufficient detainment or residential facilities or policing resources, they are not self-sustainable in general. Asylum seekers were ferried to the mainland as soon as the need arose. This continued both under the ND/PASOK/DIMAR coalition and the SYRIZA/ANEL one.
And obviously dropping them off to Turkey was never an option, as it would have caused massive tensions in the region.
Oh god, I feel like this could spark serious tension or am I being paranoid
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;51001199]Germany didn't 'invite' them to Europe, the refugees were already in southern Europe. The Southern European countries were desperately trying to deal with the amount of refugees coming in. Germany then took it upon itself to ease pressure off of those countries by saying the refugees were welcome in Germany with the idea that Germany would face problems because of that decision, but that they would avert a bigger problem from happening in the Balkans and Southern European countries. That is what 'Wir Schaffen es' was about. They would face problems, but they would deal with it.
Sad that they're now considering to fuck over Greece anyway for more votes lol[/QUOTE]
The side effect of this was that human traffickers and refugees alike took it as "You'll get a free pass into europe!", regardless of the original intention.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51002008]Dropping back to Turkey doesnt happen, my mistake. The real thing is prolonged detention of illegals.
[url]http://www.irinnews.org/analysis/2015/01/26[/url]
[url]http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/12/greek-immigration-policy-lesson-eastern-europe-151206054018282.html[/url]
These changes look pretty inviting to me.[/QUOTE]
The first article is a SYRIZA pledge, not an actual development, and with SYRIZA being SYRIZA it didn't mean much anyway. There are more migrant camps now than in the past.
The second one describes better conditions, including these:
[quote]In July 2013, it set up a "First Reception Service" to greet refugees at the border, identify them, check their health and inform them of their legal rights. It also set up a dedicated asylum service staffed by lawyers. Last year, the service received more than 13,000 applications and approved almost 4,000.[/quote]
I don't know if these improved conditions are still the case, or if things have worsened since then, but this doesn't seem particularly inviting. People aren't going to come to Greece because they'll have better legal representation, they'll want to pass through Greece in order to have a shot at employment and a better life in Europe.
Also lol:
[quote]Even so, the bill encountered opposition: One MP, Adonis Georgiadis, now running for the conservative leadership, cited an ancient Athenian law introduced by Pericles in 451BC, which tightened the requirements for citizenship and declared that only children whose parents were both Athenian could receive this citizenship.[/quote]
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;51001199]Germany didn't 'invite' them to Europe, the refugees were already in southern Europe. The Southern European countries were desperately trying to deal with the amount of refugees coming in. Germany then took it upon itself to ease pressure off of those countries by saying the refugees were welcome in Germany with the idea that Germany would face problems because of that decision, but that they would avert a bigger problem from happening in the Balkans and Southern European countries. That is what 'Wir Schaffen es' was about. They would face problems, but they would deal with it.
Sad that they're now considering to fuck over Greece anyway for more votes lol[/QUOTE]
Destuchland more like doucheland.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51006310]Increases in acceptation of asylums is inviting, since from what I remember accepted asylums in Greece used to be far far lower. Maybe inviting is the wrong word for the increased attraction in the face of improved conditions.[/quote]
Asylum acceptation means that they get to stay in Greece, so that doesn't really factor in in regards to the Balkan route. Increased [i]accepted[/i] asylum seekers in Turkey wouldn't really mean that more of them end up in Greece.
[quote]The main thing that noticed my attention in the second one was this:[/quote]
Well I looked into it:
[quote]Greece’s new detention policy resulted from the agreement between the EU and Turkey reached in mid-March. On April 2, the Greek parliament hastily adopted a law that allows blanket “restriction of movement” on new arrivals inside closed facilities at border entry points – such as the islands – for up to 25 days during reception and identification. It provides for asylum seekers to be detained for up to three months while their claims are processed.
People subject to deportation, including back to Turkey, can be detained for up to 18 months. The law decreased the maximum time that asylum seekers can be held in detention in Greece, but provides for a fast-track procedure to examine international protection claims within 15 days, including appeal. The fast-track procedure has not begun yet, but once in place, it would undermine the effective exercise of asylum seekers’ rights, Human Rights Watch said.[/quote]
[url]https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/04/14/greece-asylum-seekers-locked[/url]
The detention period refers to the time the authorities have to process claims and reject (deport) or accept them. The article also mentions how there are still plenty of detention, not just reception centres.
[quote]I suppose it is a mixture of factors that made Greece route that attractive to cause the spike, but I believe role of better conditions in Greece played a part. This is all Im saying.[/quote]
Sure. It's also important to consider how the Syrian civil war developed. Unlike Italy (currently), which used to be the main focus of the migration crisis in 2014, the absolute majority of people who arrived in Greece were Syrians and Afghans.
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