Is this why some of the competitive games I've played have some of the most toxic communities I've ever seen because the the developers made a game for esports? World of Tanks and War Thunder are prime examples of this.
Look at NS2. It actually tried its best to be for competitive gaming. They ended up catering too much to it, and ended up with a game that is so heavily stacked that new players get frustrated and leave.
Hell, look at Evolve.
Would Overwatch fall in this category?
[QUOTE=Symwck;49943461]Would Overwatch fall in this category?[/QUOTE]
Blizzard has experience with that stuff so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
[QUOTE=Swiket;49945113]Blizzard has experience with that stuff so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE]
And people just gobble up whatever Blizzard makes
I feel I should clarify what I mean by this even though I'm getting agrees. I'm saying people eat whatever blizzard puts out because blizzard is not a studio that shits out games. Blizzard has a very strong fan base that they earned through years of quality titles and support. I can't see why people are excited for Overwatch but they trust it's going to be a great game since it's by Blizzard. No other company could have put out a card game and have it blow up overnight.
[QUOTE=Symwck;49943461]Would Overwatch fall in this category?[/QUOTE]
Blizzard has been trying to generate an esports scene for all of their games because they still hold a grudge about dota 2, but their games are at least fun to begin with. Overwatch seems like a genuinely good game, which is a shame because forcing esports onto it is only going to hurt it if anything.
[editline]16th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lolkork;49945341]Blizzard is the exception to this rule, they have enough experience and a strong enough community to make esports work.[/QUOTE]
Their games aren't built to work for esports. Hearthstone has somehow managed to gain some traction but with each expansion that comes out the esports scene becomes less and less interesting because it becomes more and more about bullshitting your way to a win since you can no longer efficiently predict or expect what the opponent will do.
The esports scene for their other games is a fucking joke too.
[QUOTE=Bbarnes005;49942302]Is this why some of the competitive games I've played have some of the most toxic communities I've ever seen because the the developers made a game for esports? World of Tanks and War Thunder are prime examples of this.[/QUOTE]
Every game that has something of any competitive nature whatsoever will always get toxic players.
Even stupid mmos with no competitive scene whatsoever will get toxic players.
I've seen idiots from just about every side. Even people who got into trouble on purpose just to send textlogs with flaming to gamemasters, to have them banned for a week or so.
Man that guy was a colossal asshat... Still got what he deserved later when he was caught doing shady scamming and hacking shit with items from his friends or something lol.
The thing is, these competitive games reel in a ton of money, and a ton of players, which in the end helps everyone out, both devs and its gaming community, in exchange for win-hungry people who almost become savages when something goes wrong.
You wouldn't even believe the pure salt you see in these games, many times in completely unwarranted situations where everyone is just pants on head retarded and fail to comprehend the most basic of things.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49945566]Blizzard has been trying to generate an esports scene for all of their games because they still hold a grudge about dota 2, but their games are at least fun to begin with. Overwatch seems like a genuinely good game, which is a shame because forcing esports onto it is only going to hurt it if anything.[/QUOTE]
They've barely been pushing Overwatch as an esports game though? If at all? What esports trappings are allegedly bogging it down? It's nowhere near a shitty situation like Evolve with big dumb pre-release tourneys. The game doesn't even have things like a spectator mode or anything in it right now.
And Kaplan's made his opinions on "making esports" known in the past. They're not idiots when it comes to this stuff.
[quote][B]In another interview you talked about Blizzard’s interest in pursuing Overwatch as an esport. Do you worry at all that maybe its dangerous to build Overwatch as an esport now without waiting for the community to show and demonstrate an interest on its own?[/B]
[B]Jeff Kaplan:[/B] I do think it's dangerous to be overly committed to esport too early in the lifespan of the game. This is something we have a lot of experience with at Blizzard and there's a lot of lessons learned around the studio. From it's very inception StarCraft 2 was targeted to be an esport and I think there was a lot of grief that came out of that, like I think we really did create a healthy competitive esport around it, but at times we sacrificed approachability, not the single-player campaign which I think is actually fantastic; but it's still a little bit daunting for the newer players to get into the multiplayer StarCraft 2, and I think we recognized that. And our most recent game which I think speaks to this is Hearthstone where we really learned a lesson where approachability was first and foremost on our mind with Hearthstone. And it inevitably grew into an esport.
What was interesting with Hearthstone is, before it even got out of beta the community was running competitive tournaments for it. You know, no matter what the Hearthstone team wanted, that game was gonna be an esport. And sort of what we see with Overwatch happens is that if you kind of go back and look at the messaging that we tried to put out at Blizzcon, and when we announced the game we focused on letting everyone know that approachability was first and foremost what we cared about, we wanted to make a game that was very welcoming to as many people as possible and not sacrifice that approachability by forcing a competitive esport environment on the game as a whole.[/quote]
They've been handing it very well.
[QUOTE=Symwck;49943461]Would Overwatch fall in this category?[/QUOTE]
It actually looks fun so I'd guess no.
Overwatch only really seems competetive because of MOBA elements
[QUOTE=Lolkork;49951134]What moba elements?[/QUOTE]
The hero abilities are very MOBA inspired. Same sorta loadout of cooldown based abilities with one "ultimate" ability. And the heroes themselves are, being a wide selection of distinct characters that all fit to different roles as opposed to defined classes.
That's kinda where they end though. There's no towers, creeps, cores, items, or mid-match leveling.
I dont play PC competitive games much, but it sucked when there were no community playlists on Halo 5. Having every game be a ranked match was taxing and unnecessary
eSports really does just develop on its own given a game which can be played competitively, has a large enough community and has a large enough fraction of said community willing to play the game competitively (a game might have a decent following but shitty PvP). Having the developers switch gears to eSports mode is beneficial, but only after those requirements have been met (shit like adding/improving spectator support, match analysis, features to facilitate serious tournament play).
Also toxic players in competitive/"eSporty" games is a given -- competition tends to bring the worst out of some people.
don't make your game an annual release.
CoD / Battlefield will never be taken seriously on a comp. level because of this.
[QUOTE=General J;49954665]don't make your game an annual release.
CoD / Battlefield will never be taken seriously on a comp. level because of this.[/QUOTE]
Also because their netcode is shit and not designed for competitive play.
I feel like that's more of a barrier tbh.
For BF its probably the lack of a competitively interesting core mode that is played enough (compared to conquest). <16 players is practically a requirement tbh, with most serious team comp games I can think of at less than half that.
IIRC COD4 had a bit of a scene soon after release while I was playing, and it persisted as though MW2 didn't exist for a while too, I didn't follow it nearly close enough to remember anyway. COD's annual shenanigans just ruptures the community in terms of comp scene. Sure you get plenty of players sticking with the older games purely for the competitive side of things, but new players aren't going to be starting out with the older games, and certainly part of the requirement of currently successful esporty comp games is an active and growing community+playerbase.
[QUOTE=Dr.C;49945259]And people just gobble up whatever Blizzard makes
I feel I should clarify what I mean by this even though I'm getting agrees. I'm saying people eat whatever blizzard puts out because blizzard is not a studio that shits out games. Blizzard has a very strong fan base that they earned through years of quality titles and support. I can't see why people are excited for Overwatch but they trust it's going to be a great game since it's by Blizzard. No other company could have put out a card game and have it blow up overnight.[/QUOTE]
This is so 100% w/o a doubt true. They have some HORRIBLE balancing practices but since they're Blizzard, people gobble them up.
This is why the only "esport" I watch is fighting games, that shit developed naturally and it shows.
[QUOTE=Em See;49955501]For BF its probably the lack of a competitively interesting core mode that is played enough (compared to conquest). <16 players is practically a requirement tbh, with most serious team comp games I can think of at less than half that.
IIRC COD4 had a bit of a scene soon after release while I was playing, and it persisted as though MW2 didn't exist for a while too, I didn't follow it nearly close enough to remember anyway. COD's annual shenanigans just ruptures the community in terms of comp scene. Sure you get plenty of players sticking with the older games purely for the competitive side of things, but new players aren't going to be starting out with the older games, and certainly part of the requirement of currently successful esporty comp games is an active and growing community+playerbase.[/QUOTE]
Cod4 was the bees knees imo.
Perfect for competitive, because it wasn't a cluttered mess of options.
3 killstreaks and nothing else for example.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;49955679]This is so 100% w/o a doubt true. They have some HORRIBLE balancing practices but since they're Blizzard, people gobble them up.[/QUOTE]
Blizzard tries though and seems to listen to communit feedback. I haven't played Starcraft 2 in several years but it changed a lot in the first year it came out that I was playing it. Units were frequently getting nerfed, buffed, and reworked
[QUOTE=General J;49954665]don't make your game an annual release.
CoD / Battlefield will never be taken seriously on a comp. level because of this.[/QUOTE]
Battlefield is not an annual release. Hardline was a (bad) spin-off, and 4 came out in 2013.
[QUOTE=gk99;49955037]Also because their netcode is shit and not designed for competitive play.
I feel like that's more of a barrier tbh.[/QUOTE]
4's netcode is actually really good now. The barrier that Battlefield has is that there is no such thing as a competitive e-sports team comprised of 32 simultaneous players.
Hate how a lot of MP games these days slap the word 'esports' on it and hope it'll somehow make up for tight balance, fun gameplay and a big community when the reverse happens instead.
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