• Is picking up girls harrassment?
    80 replies, posted
I don't mean simply sexual harrassment. I mean harrassment in general: Should girls (as the defenders of the idea that it is wrong would say) be able to leave their homes and expect enough privacy to walk around, without being stopped by guys wanting to have sex with them, like any other normal guy can, or is it not wrong, because (as the defenders of the notion that there's nothing wrong with it would say) guys should be able to tell random girls they're cute and potentially bang them without needing the approval from the authorities? [b]^ tl;dr[/b] if you don't feel like reading what's next What motivated me to make this thread is how, recently, the [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/SimplePickup]Simplepickup[/url] channel caught the attention of some tumblr feminists. You know how that goes. The feminists claim that these guys sexually harrass multiple females by approaching them in public and using incredibly offensive pick-up lines, or asking inappropriate questions that make them uncomfortable. More info can be seen on [url=http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/simple-pickup-youtube-sexual-assault/]this[/url] text (obviously written with the idea that it is indeed harrassment). Basically, what they say is that Simplepickup harrasses girls and markets it as harmless fun, and that girls simply shouldn't be subjected to that kind of stuff. Now, my opinion. Personally, I've always liked the Simplepickup videos, and I've always thought they were funny. They say it themselves in a response to that text I posted (in the end of it), they actually tell the girls after they've approached them that it's for their YT channel, and that it's all a joke. If that doesn't stop their methods from being offensive, at least it means the females don't have to feel "unsafe" as some people have claimed they do. Another thing they do is encourage their viewers to do the same, by also taking the right steps into getting the courage to talk to girls, and to say the right things. They've helped a lot of people (not gonna lie, they've helped me too), and there's lots of stuff about how they've brought so much attention to the "art" of picking up girls, so there's countless articles on how great these three guys are. [url=http://www.salon.com/2011/09/20/greatest_pickup_artists_of_their_generation/]Here's[/url] an article talking positively about those guys. Examples of their videos just for reference (most of the videos that caught the attention of tumblr were removed) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3lUzGDAZNM[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0zzXAXulg[/media] What I think about the whole thing: I don't think picking up girls is harrassment. I think stopping people from talking to people they find attractive is outright retarded, and feminists shouldn't be getting that pissed off about something that has no sexist implications in most cases.
Nothing is harassment if you don't tell them to stop. Anything becomes harassment if they tell you to stop and you don't. So if you walk up to someone and hit on them, not harassment, if they tell you to go away, and you don't, that is.
its not harrassment if theyre not being creeplords otherwise yeah id say it is harrasment
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;42058528]What I think about the whole thing: I don't think picking up girls is harrassment. I think stopping people from talking to people they find attractive is outright retarded, and feminists shouldn't be getting that pissed off about something that has no sexist implications in most cases.[/QUOTE] No one said picking up girls is harassment. Some of the things they do at the very least are bordering on sexual harassment. If you're doing it in a way that makes a woman uncomfortable is wrong. Saying a girl likes her face to be jizzed on or telling her she has nice boobs is really fucked up. Of course it's possible to make someone uncomfortable while being reasonable, but that's not your problem. There's a huge difference between telling a girl your dick's huge as a pick up line and asking her out normally.
context is pretty important. it's not too hard to tell when people are generally open to conversation or not. i personally have pretty bad anxiety, and on some days a fairly outgoing person at the bus stop will make me feel "harassed" and uncomfortable. so yea, try and have some empathy. it shouldn't be too hard to tell if someone is not interested in talking.
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;42058589]Nothing is harassment if you don't tell them to stop. Anything becomes harassment if they tell you to stop and you don't. So if you walk up to someone and hit on them, not harassment, if they tell you to go away, and you don't, that is.[/QUOTE] This /thread
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;42058913]This /thread[/QUOTE] harassment and sexual harassment don't actually work like this btw.
Context and respect are the most important things, I think. If you yell at a women that her tits are nice, from across the street at midnight, it's going to be creepy as fuck, but small tasteful comments are much more appreciated. Like, if you're talking to the person and they clearly aren't comfortable and you continue on, it's extremely unpleasant. Just be respectful and clearly understand that no means no and you should not try to change that answer.
(1) A person is guilty of harassment if: (b) The person by words or conduct places the person threatened in reasonable fear that the threat will be carried out. "Words or conduct" includes, in addition to any other form of communication or conduct, the sending of an electronic communication. this is my state's definition for harassment. [editline]3rd September 2013[/editline] also: (2) "Unlawful harassment" means a knowing and willful course of conduct directed at a specific person which seriously alarms, annoys, harasses, or is detrimental to such person, and which serves no legitimate or lawful purpose. The course of conduct shall be such as would cause a reasonable person to suffer substantial emotional distress, and shall actually cause substantial emotional distress to the petitioner, or, when the course of conduct would cause a reasonable parent to fear for the well-being of their child.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;42058808]No one said picking up girls is harassment. Some of the things they do at the very least are bordering on sexual harassment. If you're doing it in a way that makes a woman uncomfortable is wrong. Saying a girl likes her face to be jizzed on or telling her she has nice boobs is really fucked up. Of course it's possible to make someone uncomfortable while being reasonable, but that's not your problem. There's a huge difference between telling a girl your dick's huge as a pick up line and asking her out normally.[/QUOTE] They have said that, actually, in many discussions on the subject, just not in the article I posted, because they're specifically directing the comments at the channel. As for saying their boobs are nice being "fucked up", that is a bit of a stretch. Some girls would be incredibly offended while others would just find it awkward and funny specially since it's coming from a guy in spandex shorts (if you want me to put it in more technical terms: since the situation is obviously quite comical she doesn't take it too seriously). The fact that they apparently tell them what it's all about once they're done probably makes it better too. But yeah, I do agree most of those things they said are pretty fucked up, in order for them to get the girls to be shocked and make the viewers laugh. also, another thing. some people have complained that these guys sometimes [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC6SMkD-EKI]kiss girls without asking[/url] (1:29). however, in that video, the girl then kisses him back- you could argue that maybe he does it more often than that and they just cut the ones that dont work, but isnt it more likely that the guy has enough social skills to realize when that's a good idea and when it's not?
I don't know about "telling people to stop" but I'd feel pretty weird if some dude went up to me and told me his dick will cause me "max payne" weird in a funny way if I got the hilarious videogame reference weird in an "I need an adult" way if I didn't
There's two ways to hit on girls. Being a fuckin' perv and being genuinely nice and sincere. One is okay. One is not. Hitting on women is not wrong. It's how I've approached every relationship I've ever been in so I don't see how it would've happened any other way.
if hitting on women became harassment then oh boy would finding a girl interested in you would be hard
They literally sexually assault drunk women and post it online, that's great. [editline]2nd September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;42059347]They have said that, actually, in many discussions on the subject, just not in the article I posted, because they're specifically directing the comments at the channel. As for saying their boobs are nice being "fucked up", that is a bit of a stretch. Some girls would be incredibly offended while others would just find it awkward and funny specially since it's coming from a guy in spandex shorts (if you want me to put it in more technical terms: since the situation is obviously quite comical she doesn't take it too seriously).[/QUOTE] Just because a minority will react positively doesn't make it OK. It's still possible that they're uncomfortable and laughing nervously.
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;42058589]Nothing is harassment if you don't tell them to stop. Anything becomes harassment if they tell you to stop and you don't. So if you walk up to someone and hit on them, not harassment, if they tell you to go away, and you don't, that is.[/QUOTE] lol. following this advice can actually get you sued for all kinds of harassment.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;42060772]Just because a minority will react positively doesn't make it OK. It's still possible that they're uncomfortable and laughing nervously.[/QUOTE] Why do you assume it's a minority. We've literally seen them say that to a single girl. I know that it's retarded to say that the majority of women would like to have a random dude say they like their boobs, but we can't know for sure if the majority would also not understand that it's a joke, especially when it's obviously presented as one
not really harassment unless the girl definitely sees it that way
[QUOTE=Shadaez;42060772] Just because a minority will react positively doesn't make it OK. It's still possible that they're uncomfortable and laughing nervously.[/QUOTE] They're not fragile little souls. They're grown women. They can handle men complimenting their breasts. Since when is feeling a little uncomfortable a crime?
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;42061705]They're not fragile little souls. They're grown women. They can handle men complimenting their breasts. Since when is feeling a little uncomfortable a crime?[/QUOTE] That's an awful way to go about hitting on women, I can never see that working unless they're drunk or something, and even then.. I can definitely see women reacting negatively to that, and I can understand why, it's just perverted and rude.
[QUOTE=LSK;42061754]That's an awful way to go about hitting on women, I can never see that working unless they're drunk or something, and even then.. I can definitely see women reacting negatively to that, and I can understand why, it's just perverted and rude.[/QUOTE] Trust me, I agree. I'd never hit on a woman like that, not only because it's rude but there's no way this would actually work.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;42061939]Trust me, I agree. I'd never hit on a woman like that, not only because it's rude but there's no way this would actually work.[/QUOTE] I've seen guys be extremely crass and get positive results, unfortunately. [editline]3rd September 2013[/editline] I mean people behave the way they do for a reason.
[QUOTE=katbug;42061943]I've seen guys be extremely crass and get positive results, unfortunately. [editline]3rd September 2013[/editline] I mean people behave the way they do for a reason.[/QUOTE] Those aren't the types of girls I bother with. If some girl goes home with some douche that says "nice tits we should fuck", it's a shame but she's the one with the power in that scenario.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;42062217]Those aren't the types of girls I bother with. If some girl goes home with some douche that says "nice tits we should fuck", it's a shame but she's the one with the power in that scenario.[/QUOTE] I feel a whole lot better when i see open gestures of untractiveness (that isn't of my personal quality) with good-looking women. It rids the lust of wanting to know them.
[QUOTE=Daemon;42062540]I feel a whole lot better when i see open gestures of untractiveness (that isn't of my personal quality) with good-looking women. It rids the lust of wanting to know them.[/QUOTE] I like it when they snort. Out of everything they do, when they snort, it makes me feel like a total champ and them a total chump.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;42062217]Those aren't the types of girls I bother with. If some girl goes home with some douche that says "nice tits we should fuck", it's a shame but she's the one with the power in that scenario.[/QUOTE] it's not a shame and perverts aren't all douches making their own decisions isn't shameful at all just because they won't have sex with you nobody has ever said nice tits we should fuck to a stranger and have it work for them seriously being perverted is an art reserved for attractive people, personality wise, and requires tact, projection and other qualities good speakers have if you go up to someone being perverted and you had a quiet unprojected soft voice because you don't have any self confidence all girls would think you're a creep but obviously this is not true for perverts who have it work for them, these people have confidence in themselves and girls can see that from the get go, that's what they're attracted to
Doing something that you're aware might make someone feel uncomfortable or unsafe for no good reason (and the possibility of getting them to have sex with you is [I]not[/I] a good reason) is an unethical thing to do, IMO. Whether this amounts to harassment or not probably depends on the situation, but it's still being a dick. Telling people afterwards that it was a joke doesn't mean making people feel unsafe suddenly okay - if they felt unsafe they felt unsafe. Also, just because some people might not be bothered by it doesn't make it okay, either. Since you don't know ahead of time which ones will or won't, you're still taking a fairly big risk that you'll upset someone/make them feel unsafe. If you're willing to do that, you aren't really caring about how your actions might make other people feel, which is a dick move. [QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;42061705]They're not fragile little souls. They're grown women. They can handle men complimenting their breasts. Since when is feeling a little uncomfortable a crime?[/QUOTE] Whether the people can handle it or not is beside the point - it's still not a nice thing to do.
Maybe doing it in a really overt way with an obvious agenda could be construed as harassment, but in my opinion if it's done in a non-overbearing way (just start talking in a bar or something) it's not really harassment. At least until the other person makes it clear they're not interested, if it's carried on past that point then yeah it's kinda harassment.
[QUOTE=Tweevle;42070416]Doing something that you're aware might make someone feel uncomfortable or unsafe for no good reason (and the possibility of getting them to have sex with you is not a good reason) is an unethical thing to do, IMO.[/quote] Calling it unethical is kind of a stretch. I've yet to see someone accuse Joe, from Joe goes, of harrassment, and all the humor from his videos comes from making people feel uncomfortable on purpose. [quote]Also, just because some people might not be bothered by it doesn't make it okay, either. Since you don't know ahead of time which ones will or won't, you're still taking a fairly big risk that you'll upset someone/make them feel unsafe. If you're willing to do that, you aren't really caring about how your actions might make other people feel, which is a dick move.[/QUOTE] I don't see it as impossible that someone might have enough social tact to notice when it's alright to say something awkward but funny, and when it's not.
Maybe we should let the individual decide if they're being harassed instead of an elite group of feminazis.
[QUOTE=maximizer39v2;42070678]Maybe we should let the individual decide if they're being harassed instead of an elite group of feminazis.[/QUOTE] God damn that is one accurate title.
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