U.K. Drops Brexit Bravado as Hammond Tells CEOs May Will Listen
30 replies, posted
[quote]Theresa May’s government has changed its tune on Brexit, striking a more sober and realistic tone weeks after her disastrous election. Gone is the bluster that had prompted European Union allies to chide the U.K. for wanting to have its cake and eat it, too.
On Monday, Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond will use a speech organized by the Confederation of British Industry to tell business leaders their concerns over the split will not be dismissed. It’s a conciliatory gesture to an audience that’s been overlooked, and at times, even dismissed.
The change in tone has become apparent since May lost her majority and had to cobble together a working arrangement with a Northern Irish party. Unable to impose her vision of Brexit and under mounting pressure to drop austerity, the prime minister has been forced into making political concessions at home and increasingly likely with her EU divorce partners as well.
Hammond has emerged as the main cheerleader for a business-friendly Brexit. His reputation for being one of the cabinet ministers in favor of a softer Brexit had made him a candidate for the chopping block when it looked as if May was heading for a landslide with an army of hard-Brexit supporters.
But May’s poor election performance has raised his stature, and he’s been unafraid to spar with Brexit Secretary David Davis, the chief negotiator, or take jabs at Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, one of the faces of the successful “Leave” campaign. In Berlin last week, Hammond joked that he now tried to “discourage talk of ‘cake’ amongst my colleagues.”
Since the election, the chancellor also has argued that leaving the Brexit talks without a deal, as some including May have threatened, would be a “bad outcome” and that immigration should be managed rather than “shut down.” He’s also warned that any fragmentation of financial services after Brexit could result in highest costs for companies both in Britain and Europe.
There are signs that others are working to get May to rethink her approach to the breakup. A report in the Guardian, citing government officials, said ministers were being told to either accept political compromises or to settle for a limited free-trade deal similar to one the EU and Canada signed -- reasoning that it’s not possible to have the best of both worlds.
In the new climate, a City of London delegation is headed to Brussels this week with the unofficial support of senior government figures, the Financial Times reported, citing three unidentified officials familiar with the project. The aim is to present a secret blueprint for a free-trade deal on financial services when Brexit is completed in March 2019.
Businesses need a way to provide an “enduring constant connection that will last far longer than Brexit,” said Steve Varley, chairman and managing director for the U.K. and Ireland at the professional services firm EY. “We need to do something of more industrial strength.”[/quote]
[url]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-02/u-k-drops-brexit-bravado-as-hammond-tells-ceos-may-will-listen[/url]
About time reality hit the Tories. I wonder, with this new business friendly mindset, when the realisation that the EU offers the best option for business will be had, given that WTO is poor for a service heavy economy like the UK and establishing mutual recognition agreements will likely extend past the negotiation window, leaving us in a guaranteed position of economic disadvantage. Seriously, we need access to the single market, even though with leaving the EU we won't have influence over the legislation controlling it. I don't see how the Tories can be business friendly without single market access.
But what does Clarkson think???
[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;52427295]About time reality hit the Tories. I wonder, with this new business friendly mindset, when the realisation that the EU offers the best option for business will be had, given that WTO is poor for a service heavy economy like the UK and establishing mutual recognition agreements will likely extend past the negotiation window, leaving us in a guaranteed position of economic disadvantage. Seriously, we need access to the single market, even though with leaving the EU we won't have influence over the legislation controlling it. I don't see how the Tories can be business friendly without single market access.[/QUOTE]
It is absolutely impossible for the UK to retain single market access without freedom of movement, and I'm not sure if the Tories are ready to actually say that out loud. This would imply a Switzerland type deal which is actually [I]less[/I] independent than being a full member, you basically have to agree with all regulations and stipulations without having as much of a say.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52427381]It is absolutely impossible for the UK to retain single market access without freedom of movement, and I'm not sure if the Tories are ready to actually say that out loud. This would imply a Switzerland type deal which is actually [I]less[/I] independent than being a full member, you basically have to agree with all regulations and stipulations without having as much of a say.[/QUOTE]
which, at that point, is essentially worse off than we were in the beginning..
someone remind me why anyone thought brexit was a good idea again
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52427402]which, at that point, is essentially worse off than we were in the beginning..
someone remind me why anyone thought brexit was a good idea again[/QUOTE]
Only companies benefit from Brexit, since they don't have to comply to pesky EU laws anymore.
[QUOTE=BF;52427325]But what does Clarkson think???[/QUOTE]
Ok now I'm really confused, because if you don't include any of the first names, it really sounds like they could all be included.
Ah yes, Philip Hammond, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn, the iconic trio known for wrecking [del]cars[/del] england
[QUOTE=Ager O'Eggers;52427406][B][U][I]Only companies benefit from Brexit[/I][/U][/B], since they don't have to comply to pesky EU laws anymore.[/QUOTE]
Hardly, if any.
what are the biggest reasons someone might think brexit is a good thing
I haven't been following and this whole thing is hilarious
how is it still going on
[QUOTE=Ager O'Eggers;52427406]Only companies benefit from Brexit, since they don't have to comply to pesky EU laws anymore.[/QUOTE]
The OP is literally about business not supporting Brexit
[QUOTE=Ager O'Eggers;52427406]Only companies benefit from Brexit, since they don't have to comply to pesky EU laws anymore.[/QUOTE]
Which is not even true, or at least not to all industries. Look at Switzerland again, they have regulations that are in practice mirrors of EU law, it's a necessary element of being a member of the Single Market. The other examples of countries having access to the Single Market without being full members are Norway and Iceland, both of which have solid economic reasons (With their economies being largely based on fishing and exploitation of natural resources) to not be full members.
The truth is that the overwhelming majority of British citizens won't benefit in the least from Brexit, and that any arrangement that curbs immigration which is the biggest reason people voted Leave in the first place, will entail catastrophic economic consequences from the loss of access to the Single Market, the most affected group will be the financial services industry which just so happens to be one of the largest sectors of the British economy.
[QUOTE=Ager O'Eggers;52427406]Only companies benefit from Brexit, since they don't have to comply to pesky EU laws anymore.[/QUOTE]
Except they lose access to the market? Companies are directly hit by Brexit. Literally nobody benefits from Brexit except for tin-pot politicians grasping for power.
[QUOTE=Ager O'Eggers;52427406]Only companies benefit from Brexit, since they don't have to comply to pesky EU laws anymore.[/QUOTE]
Many companies benefited greatly from the free trade agreements, so the select few fucked over the rest by propping up the retarded politicians.
Good old [I]"ME ME ME ME FUCK ANYONE ELSE"[/I] mindset at it again
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52427469]Except they lose access to the market? Companies are directly hit by Brexit. Literally nobody benefits from Brexit except for tin-pot politicians grasping for power.[/QUOTE]
Some benefits ≠ Net benefit
It's going towards a free trade deal at this point, its not as politically suicide than still having to operate under the EU.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52427566]It's going towards a free trade deal at this point, its not as politically suicide than still having to operate under the EU.[/QUOTE]
I'm not seeing how an associate membership would be political suicide. The "independence" angle is absurd anyway.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52427571]I'm not seeing how an associate membership would be political suicide. The "independence" angle is absurd anyway.[/QUOTE]
The costs start to outweigh the benefits when you get to an 'associate membership' stage, you might as well just leave with a free-trade deal. Also nothing wrong with the whole 'independence' thing, because technically they aren't independent, especially with ECJ, especially with this entire 'we want to ensure special rights to our citizens in a foreign country' idea.
This could be pretty fucking useful. If CEOs had a direct line to No 10 they could come together in huge chunks of various stances, in particular "My business will do better inside the single market, with freedom of movement". Because that's got to be a huge fucking group - people like Alan Sugar are supposed to be successful businessmen but they must be nuts if they think they're going to profit off Brexit. Unless he's planning on creating a private contractor to provide support to the 4.2 million new Home Office tasks.
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52427402]which, at that point, is essentially worse off than we were in the beginning..
someone remind me why anyone thought brexit was a good idea again[/QUOTE]
FREEEDOOOM!
same reason why people somehow think trump will make US trade better with nafta and shit when we're very likely going to have to give the canadians and mexicans huge concessions to renegotiate it thanks to our lovely "fuck our neighbors" foreign policy these days
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52427601]The costs start to outweigh the benefits when you get to an 'associate membership' stage, you might as well just leave with a free-trade deal. Also nothing wrong with the whole 'independence' thing, because technically they aren't independent, especially with ECJ.[/QUOTE]
No it isn't. A free trade deal with the EU [I]is[/I] access to the Single Market. That's what it means to be a member of the Single Market, to be a member of the European Free Trade Association. A free trade unlike it, like deal like what was offered to former Yugoslavian countries is impossible under the circumstances, they're meant to be incentives to joining the EU, not leaving it. The EU has no reason to agree to anything unlike a similar package than what was offered to EFTA countries, anything that offers more leniency will be weakening their strategic position in the region.
There's plenty wrong with the 'independence' thing, and yes that stays in quotes, because it isn't true in the slightest form. It portrays a relationship with the EU that has no base in reality, the idea that the UK has somehow lost sovereignty over its territory due to EU membership is absurd.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52427627]No it isn't. A free trade deal with the EU [I]is[/I] access to the Single Market. That's what it means to be a member of the Single Market, to be a member of the European Free Trade Association. A free trade unlike it, like deal like what was offered to former Yugoslavian countries is impossible under the circumstances, they're meant to be incentives to joining the EU, not leaving it. The EU has no reason to agree to anything unlike a similar package than what was offered to EFTA countries, anything that offers more leniency will be weakening their strategic position in the region.[/QUOTE]
Many countries have Free Trade Agreements, like the one Canada just signed with the EU (CETA), which in no way requires free movement, or central courts. When the world talks about Free Trade Agreements, or a 'free trade deal' it means one outside the single market, especially surround current discussions as well as transitional periods.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52427646]Many countries have Free Trade Agreements, like the one Canada just signed with the EU (CETA), which in no way requires free movement, or central courts. When the world talks about Free Trade Agreements, or a 'free trade deal' it means one outside the single market.[/QUOTE]
That trade deal also took about a decade to come to fruition, and is much more restrictive than the EU's single market. The UK are supposed to leave in two years.
Canada also didn't just leave the EU, there's the political aspect that Big Bang just explained to you, you shouldn't ignore it.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52427646]Many countries have Free Trade Agreements, like the one Canada just signed with the EU (CETA), which in no way requires free movement, or central courts. When the world talks about Free Trade Agreements, or a 'free trade deal' it means one outside the single market.[/QUOTE]
You mean the agreement that is not yet ratified and has plenty of opposition from a number of parties? Because yeah, the reason why that exists is because of Canada's economic importance to the EU and also because of Canada's heavily developed primary sector, it's a near complete reversal from the UK's service economy which heavily needs access to the Single Market. There's another really important factor you're ignoring: Canada isn't in Europe.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52427646]Many countries have Free Trade Agreements, like the one Canada just signed with the EU (CETA), which in no way requires free movement, or central courts. When the world talks about Free Trade Agreements, or a 'free trade deal' it means one outside the single market.[/QUOTE]
We seem to be circling this strange notion that the UK will somehow be given special treatment and be offered a free trade deal with no strings attached. Now, my question, as it was in the previous thread that you posted this claim, is this; what POSSIBLE reason would the EU have to give the UK a trade deal like that? As myself, in the previous thread, and others here have pointed out, the EU stands to lose immensely on such a deal... what bargaining chip does the UK currently posses that would make the EU willing to compromise the integrity of the single market and their geo-political status? Nothing, as far as I can tell; as a matter of fact, as I stated in the other thread, I believe that the UK is currently in no state to dictate the course of these negotiations, the EU is.
I base this on the recent election that weakened the Torries already wobbly policy on the matter, the incredibly lacking whitepaper from february that read more like a wish list rather than outlining HOW any of those things are to become reality (reflecting the general mysticism surrounding the governemnts actual plans for Brexit, something that has existed from day one of this mess and hasn't helped one bit with the UK's position in these dealings), the disastrous first day of negotiation between the UK and EU in which, might I remind you, the EU came fully prepared with a plan outlining their vision of the coming talks and the UK arrived with nothing what so ever... and now this, which once again, completely throws everyone for a loop in regards to discern what the Torries acutually plan to do with Brexit.
[editline]3rd July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52427667]You mean the agreement that is not yet ratified and has plenty of opposition from a number of parties? Because yeah, the reason why that exists is because of Canada's economic importance to the EU and also because of Canada's heavily developed primary sector, it's a near complete reversal from the UK's service economy which heavily needs access to the Single Market. There's another really important factor you're ignoring: Canada isn't in Europe.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention (repeating points from my previous repsonse to Boilrig in the last brexit thread) needing every member state to be OK with the deal, since everyone has veto rights... AND that it took about 14 years working out the legaleese in that deal, time I believe the UK don't really want to spend outside the single market.
The UK has already had to concede on their wish to include negotiations on the UK's furture realtionships with the EU in this first round of talks, something that will just add more pressure on the UK and will give the EU an advantage, since one thing I'm sure the Torries don't want is to trade with the EU under WTO rules.
the Tories making more concessions at the negotiating table is a headline we're going to be seeing a lot
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52427402]someone remind me why anyone thought brexit was a good idea again[/QUOTE]
Because the slight majority that wanted us to leave were ignorant, ill-informed, bigoted, idiotic, selfish, and generally under-evolved all around. At least, moreso than the rest of us.
Honestly, they need to be uplifted and enlightened. 52% of people being as pathetic and primitive as this is 51.999% too many.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52427666]That trade deal also took about a decade to come to fruition, and is much more restrictive than the EU's single market. The UK are supposed to leave in two years.
Canada also didn't just leave the EU, there's the political aspect that Big Bang just explained to you, you shouldn't ignore it.[/QUOTE]
[I]He doesn't give a shit. [/I]
I've explained thousands of times, with detailed sources, exactly how he's monumentally wrong on every SINGLE thing he's ever thought in his 5 years of living on this earth, but he just doesn't give a shit so long as LONG LIVE THE EMPIRELONG LIVE THE EMPIRELONG LIVE THE EMPIRELONG LIVE THE EMPIRELONG LIVE THE EMPIRELONG LIVE THE EMPIRELONG LIVE THE EMPIRE
[QUOTE=J!NX;52427435]what are the biggest reasons someone might think brexit is a good thing
I haven't been following and this whole thing is hilarious
how is it still going on[/QUOTE]
Same reasons people thought electing Trump was a good idea.
[QUOTE=J!NX;52427435]what are the biggest reasons someone might think brexit is a good thing
I haven't been following and this whole thing is hilarious
how is it still going on[/QUOTE]
Other than the fact all of the papers owned by Murdoch said it was a good idea?.
"We give £350 million to the EU, lets give it to northern Ireland instead"
"Take the country back!!! and build a new empire!!!"
"*Racism*"
People can be really really dumb.
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