Australian detained in US for overstaying visa by 90 minutes - Polidicks

[quote]A Canberra man has been detained in the United States for reportedly overstaying his visa by less than two hours. The family of Baxter Reid said the 26-year-old was being held at the Buffalo Federal Detention Facility in upstate New York after being detained by US immigration officials. According to Mr Reid's family, Baxter had been in the US on a five-year visa, which required him to leave the country every six months. He was reportedly trying to travel to Canada to fulfil this requirement when he was detained. Mr Reid's brother, Alexander, said Canadian officials did not want to let Baxter through because his visa was close to expiring. "Because they had kept him, his visa had expired by 90 minutes," he said.[/quote] [url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-02/australian-detained-in-us-for-overstaying-visa-by-90-minutes/8489612[/url] Yes, what a great use of government resources arresting a man who was doing everything in his power to correct the minor oversight :downs:

That'll teach the bastards to exploit the american people /s How does a country have sanctuary cities and also do shit like this.

America just seems like a frightening country to go visit or work in for a few months. I know cases like this are rare but it's things like this that make me very weary of even coming over for a visit. That and other authoritarian things (such as looking at social media and your phone, etc.)

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52176432]America just seems like a frightening country to go visit or work in for a few months. I know cases like this are rare but it's things like this that make me very weary of even coming over for a visit. That and other authoritarian things (such as looking at social media and your phone, etc.)[/QUOTE] You're not the only one. International tourism to the US has plummeted since Trump took office.

[quote]Mr Reid's brother, Alexander, said [B]Canadian officials did not want to let Baxter through[/B] because his visa was close to expiring.[/quote] US had no choice if Canada wouldn't let him in.

Detained because his visa expired for 90 minutes, this is some straight up bullshit here. I hope he gets out of this mire intact.

[QUOTE=OvB;52176439]US had no choice if Canada wouldn't let him in.[/QUOTE] OK then, remind me never to go to Canada either. In fact I'll just let you all in North America sort out your shite. :u

snip

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52176442]Detained because his visa expired for 90 minutes, this is some straight up bullshit here. I hope he gets out of this mire intact.[/QUOTE] Sorry but if it's expired, it's expired. There shouldn't be a layover time for a document that can easily be renewed.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52176458]Sorry but if it's expired, it's expired. There shouldn't be a layover time for a document that can easily be renewed.[/QUOTE] It was literally expired by 90 minutes and he was trying to leave - why shouldn't he be allowed to leave, why should either the Canadian or American authorities stop him when he was trying to do the right thing?

More information: [quote]According to Kansco’s account, the couple were given “the runaround” for more than four hours at the US-Canada border. By the time Canadian authorities referred them back to US Border Patrol, Reid had “technically violated his visa requirements”. “The US Border Patrol ended up taking Baxter away, because after waiting for hours with the Canadians, he ... was illegally in the US for a SINGLE HOUR,” wrote Kansco. “This is where all the real problems began: they threw Baxter in cuffs and escorted him to prison ... This is going to make a criminal out of an innocent man.” Reid had not been charged but was reportedly being held at the Buffalo federal detention centre. Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said it was providing consular assistance to an Australian man detained in the US, but could not release any more details owing to privacy obligations.[/quote] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/02/us-border-officers-lock-up-australian-man-after-overstaying-visa-by-one-hour[/url] I don't know why the Canadians would hold him so long. But if he was denied entry into Canada, and referred back to the Americans without a valid Visa, they don't really have much options. There's no procedure for special treatment. Should be noted that Buffalo federal detention center is a detention center run by ICE for immigration cases. Not a federal prison. Basically you throw people who skip their visas in there so you can deport them without them running away.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52176466]It was literally expired by 90 minutes and he was trying to leave - why shouldn't he be allowed to leave, why should either the Canadian or American authorities stop him when he was trying to do the right thing?[/QUOTE] Maybe he should have chosen one of the times for the [B]six months[/B] he has to go travelling to go earlier. The Canadian authorities noticed that his visa was so close to expiring that they barred entry. If I saw someone with a visa that was about to expire literally within hours of him visiting, I'd actually be pretty goddamn suspicious. He had, again, 6 months to get out of the country in order to keep his visa intact. He didn't.

I have to agree, it is once every 6 months, he shouldn't have waited to leave less then a week before it it was required.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52176480]Maybe he should have chosen one of the times for the [B]six months[/B] he has to go travelling to go earlier. The Canadian authorities noticed that his visa was so close to expiring that they barred entry. If I saw someone with a visa that was about to expire literally within hours of him visiting, I'd actually be pretty goddamn suspicious. He had, again, 6 months to get out of the country in order to keep his visa intact. He didn't.[/QUOTE] You're ridiculous. If you want to keep things as black and white as "it's expired and he should be kept out", then why isn't the converse "it's [I]not[/I] expired, so let him in"?

holy shit, Futurama was right bureaucrats are becoming more strict, soon if your visa expires by over a minute you'll be sent straight to the concentration ca.. holiday resort. for real tho, kinda dumb

[QUOTE=Beetle179;52176509]You're ridiculous. If you want to keep things as black and white as "it's expired and he should be kept out", then why isn't the converse "it's [I]not[/I] expired, so let him in"?[/QUOTE] That's not the United State's issue. He made it through the US side. Do Australians need a Visa with Canada? I don't know why the Canadians would be concerned with his US Visa if he was trying to go to Canada. Maybe his [url=http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/eta.asp]eTA[/url] wasn't in check so Canada beat around the bush for 4 hours, said sorry and sent him back to the USA, with a now expired Visa. USA saw (who no doubt processed a ton of people in the 4 hours this dude spent with Canada) see's a man being denied access to Canada, check him out, see his Expired visa, and have no choice but to detain him because that's what you do with people who have expired visas. It's not our responsibility to put you in a Hotel until you figure your shit out.

[QUOTE=OvB;52176527]That's not the United State's issue. He made it through the US side. Do Australians need a Visa with Canada? I don't know why the Canadians would be concerned with his US Visa if he was trying to go to Canada. Maybe his eTA wasn't in check so Canada beat around the bush for 4 hours, said sorry and sent him back to the USA, with a now expired Visa. USA saw (who no doubt processed a ton of people in the 4 hours this dude spent with Canada) see's a man being denied access to Canada, check him out, see his Expired visa, and have no choice but to detain him because that's what you do with people who have expired visas. It's not our responsibility to put you in a Hotel until you figure your shit out.[/QUOTE] Aussies have visa free access to canada.

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52176529]Aussies have visa free access to canada.[/QUOTE] You still need an eTA. [editline]2nd May 2017[/editline] Visa-free travel doesn't mean you can just walk in. You still need a valid passport, and for many countries (USA, Canada, India, and Australia plus others) some kind of electronic authorization. It's a lot less difficult to get than a Visa, but probably not something you want to forget about when you're at the gate with an expired Visa for the country you're coming from. The only place this dude was legally allowed to be in, is Australia and the imaginary sliver of void between Canada and the US. The moment his visa expired he became an undocumented immigrant to both the USA and Canada. (which is how most illegal immigrants become illegal) (well, not technically Canada because he wasn't in Canada yet.)

So a guy waited until the last minute, broke the law, had the normal consequences for breaking the law. Where's the controversy again?

[QUOTE=sgman91;52176579]So a guy waited until the last minute, broke the law, had the normal consequences for breaking the law. Where's the controversy again?[/QUOTE] He didn't break the law, he was following the law, but border officials forced him to break the law by refusing him entry. His visa doesn't require him to leave the US once every 5 months and 2 weeks, it requires him to leave it every 6 months. If you want to say he should have done it sooner, why are those extra 2 weeks even in there?

[QUOTE=Glent;52176754]He didn't break the law, he was following the law, but border officials forced him to break the law by refusing him entry.[/QUOTE] Obviously not to Canada's liking if they didn't let him in.

[QUOTE=OvB;52176793]Obviously not to Canada's liking if they didn't let him in.[/QUOTE] The reason they didn't let him in was because the visa was about to expire (according to OP - if it's the eTA as you mentioned before, there's no indication of that being the case) - and it only expired because they chose not to let him in.

Also, that's not how deadlines work. A deadline is not flexible. A deadline is the last period with which you can do something. If my teacher gives me a 6 month project and I turn it in in 6 months + 20 minutes, I'm turning in late work. If My boss requires me to be to work at 8:00, and I get there at 8:15, I am late for work. If I do that a lot I will get fired for being a shit employee. The wiggle room on deadlines doesn't need to be written, because it's implied. Don't be late for shit. [editline]2nd May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Glent;52176798]The reason they didn't let him in was because the visa was about to expire (according to OP - if it's the eTA as you mentioned before, there's no indication of that being the case) - and it only expired because they chose not to let him in.[/QUOTE] Canada has no reason to concern themselves with the US Visa. It's not Canada's problem that his US Visa is going to expire, just like it's not the USA's problem that Canada didn't let him in.

[QUOTE=OvB;52176804]Also, that's not how deadlines work. A deadline is not flexible. A deadline is the last period with which you can do something. If my teacher gives me a 6 month project and I turn it in in 6 months + 20 minutes, I'm turning in late work. If My boss requires me to be to work at 8:00, and I get there at 8:15, I am late for work. If I do that a lot I will get fired for being a shit employee. The wiggle room on deadlines doesn't need to be written, because it's implied. Don't be late for shit.[/QUOTE] His visa had not expired when he was trying to enter canada: [quote]Mr Reid's brother, Alexander, said Canadian officials did not want to let Baxter through because his visa was close to expiring. "Because they had kept him, his visa had expired by 90 minutes," he said.[/quote] [QUOTE=OvB;52176804]Canada has no reason to concern themselves with the US Visa. It's not Canada's problem that his US Visa is going to expire, just like it's not the USA's problem that Canada didn't let him in.[/QUOTE] That's the reason given in the OP. Whether they should have concerned themselves with it or not, they appear to have done so.

[QUOTE=Glent;52176815]His visa had not expired when he was trying to enter canada:[/QUOTE] Yeah and I wasn't late for work when I got stuck in traffic for an hour. Not an excuse. He should've left the day before. [editline]2nd May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Glent;52176815] That's the reason given in the OP. Whether they should have concerned themselves with it or not, they appear to have done so.[/QUOTE] If for whatever reason Canada was concerned about his Visa in a foreign country, then Canada is responsible for him becoming an illegal immigrant when they turned him back because he decided to wait till the very last second to do something that can all too often take hours to do. (driving through the border isn't a quick process very often)

[QUOTE=OvB;52176826]Yeah and I wasn't late for work when I got stuck in traffic for an hour. Not an excuse. He should've left the day before. [editline]2nd May 2017[/editline] If for whatever reason Canada was concerned about his Visa in a foreign country, then Canada is responsible for him becoming an illegal immigrant when they turned him back because he decided to wait till the very last second to do something that can all too often take hours to do. (driving through the border isn't a quick process very often)[/QUOTE] Time isn't the reason in this case because he specifically did have enough time. He didn't overstay his visa, he made it to Canada, but was turned away from officials there, because his Visa was about to expire (not because it was expired). For your analogy, then, it's not that he was stuck in traffic and late for work, it's that he made it to work on time only to be delayed by something unavoidable (e.g. police) which caused him to be late. To be clear, if you are arguing that this is about deadlines, then Canada could have just as easily turned him away if he went the day before and he still wouldn't have been able to make it. Even several days before, if he couldn't afford a flight to a different country, for example. Their reason was that his US Visa was about to expire, which you say shouldn't be relevant to them, which puts the blame on them.

[QUOTE=Glent;52176754]He didn't break the law, he was following the law, but border officials forced him to break the law by refusing him entry. His visa doesn't require him to leave the US once every 5 months and 2 weeks, it requires him to leave it every 6 months. If you want to say he should have done it sooner, why are those extra 2 weeks even in there?[/QUOTE] I mean, he clearly broke the law. He overstayed his visa. The logistics of how to leave every 6 months is his responsibility. Plans often have hiccups, that's why you don't wait until the very last minute to get extremely important things done. [editline]2nd May 2017[/editline] This reminds me of being in college. We would have papers due at midnight. They would need to be uploaded before 12:00 AM or they were late. I know for a fact that lots of people waited until 11:58 PM to try and upload, only to figure out that their internet was down. Guess what? They still got the penalty for turning it in late. It's their fault for waiting until 11:58 PM.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52176851]I mean, he clearly broke the law. He overstayed his visa. The logistics of how to leave every 6 months is his responsibility. Plans often have hiccups, that's why you don't wait until the very last minute to get extremely important things done. [editline]2nd May 2017[/editline] This reminds me of being in college. We would have papers due at midnight. They would need to be uploaded before 12:00 AM or they were late. I know for a fact that lots of people waited until 11:58 PM to try and upload, only to figure out that their internet was down. Guess what? They still got the penalty for turning it in late. It's their fault for waiting until 11:58 PM.[/QUOTE] This analogy doesn't really work because he had fulfilled his duties as part of the Visa - he had left the country within the given time, that's including the "internet" being up from your analogy and uploading in time. His visa only expired because the Canadian officials kept him because his visa was about to expire. It's like if the paper needed to be uploaded before 12:00 AM but any papers uploaded after 10:00 PM were denied anyway.

[QUOTE=Glent;52176845]Time isn't the reason in this case because he specifically did have enough time. He didn't overstay his visa, he made it to Canada, but was turned away from officials there, because his Visa was about to expire (not because it was expired). For your analogy, then, it's not that he was stuck in traffic and late for work, it's that he made it to work on time only to be delayed by something unavoidable (e.g. police) which caused him to be late. To be clear, if you are arguing that this is about deadlines, then Canada could have just as easily turned him away if he went the day before and he still wouldn't have been able to make it. Even several days before, if he couldn't afford a flight to a different country, for example. Their reason was that his US Visa was about to expire, which you say shouldn't be relevant to them, which puts the blame on them.[/QUOTE] US immigration officials will help you if you can't afford a flight back home.

[QUOTE=Glent;52176845]Time isn't the reason in this case because he specifically did have enough time. He didn't overstay his visa, he made it to Canada, but was turned away from officials there, because his Visa was about to expire (not because it was expired). For your analogy, then, it's not that he was stuck in traffic and late for work, it's that he made it to work on time only to be delayed by something unavoidable (e.g. police) which caused him to be late.[/QUOTE] He did not make it to Canada. He didn't even get through the door. Immigration is a double door. You go through the US side, and then through the Canada side. His brief stay in Canada was not as a permitted person as he was not allowed entry. If were going to keep using the work analogy, he made it to the office, but the security guard at the door couldn't validate his ID and turned him away. If Canada turned him away the previous day, he would've had 24 hours to figure out why and corrected it, and/or fly to a different country to satisfy his requirement. I mean, in this case the USA is just following their own laws. It's not our fault or problem that another country turned him around. You can't give special treatment in this sort of thing. The best thing they [I]maybe[/I] could've done would be let him hover around the waiting room in limbo and figure out why he was denied entry. But at the end of the day if he can't get into Canada, they can't let him leave that office without being detained.