Just got my books on Marxism and other political readings. - General

So I was reading on Lenin, and I was thinking to myself, "What the hell was in the Capital that drove him to try for a revolution"? So I decided to Order all 3 volumes of the Capital (Unabridged), and I though, "Why don't I just get the Communist Manifesto as well", So I got that. Then I realized if I was buying all these books, I may as well pick up a book I wanted to get into for a while now, the historical Mien Kampf. After a strenuous 5 days of waiting, they're finally here, and I can't wait to read them. The Great Unboxing: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/O5R0k.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DG3Qs.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tiwmN.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/yuUBR.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7ORkf.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lpPjD.jpg[/IMG] Yeah, so discuss the books, government, and other things that come to mind.

Just remember, Marx was not a Marxist.

nice socks

May I ask why is most of FP obsessed with Communism?

[QUOTE=GunFox;32838552]Just remember, Marx was not a Marxist.[/QUOTE] but his name is Marx? dammit why do these things have to be ass-backwards.

[QUOTE=GunFox;32838552]Just remember, Marx was not a Marxist.[/QUOTE] No, but his ideas started Marxism :flashfact: [editline]17th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=NomadicNinja;32838556]nice socks[/QUOTE] Size 11.5 mens. Nice and cozy. [editline]17th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;32838565]May I ask why is most of FP obsessed with Communism?[/QUOTE] Because the entire era of the Socialist Revolution is an astonishing time.

Mein Kampf sounds like an intersting read

About to dive into it in a minute actually. Reading the preamble, it's said that Hitler was a master of combining metaphors into unreadable jargon. I can't wait.

[QUOTE=mbreunig91;32838597]Mein Kampf sounds like an intersting read[/QUOTE] It actually makes Hitler seem even more insane. Supposedly during a mustard gas attack in WWI an angel descended from the skies and told him he should be the leader of Germany or something.

Mustard Gas IS one hell of a drug...

Okay tell us when you've read them.

I just did. They sucked.

[QUOTE=mbreunig91;32838597]Mein Kampf sounds like an intersting read[/QUOTE] Yea, its about how Hitler lost a testicle, got gassed, and got syphilis. Only creepy thing it doesn't mention is how Hitler liked having his niece pee on his face.

Congrats on being added to the government's watch list. And do I spy a pocket knife with a Boy Scout emblem on it?

That's a generic saint.

Is this simply a scholarly interest, or are you doing this for posterity's sake? I can never really tell these days; communism has become something of a fashion statement. The Conflict Theorist vision of the world that was penned by philosophers like Marx is incredibly naive, in my opinion. The world is not divided into such simple categories, and its problems are not so easily pinned on any one class.

Ahhhh, I remember when I got my copy of the "Communist Manifesto". My friends gifted it to me for my birthday, always joking about how they think I'm a communist. I wonder how they'd react if they knew how close to the truth they really were? I like to think that, optimistically, I am a communist and that, realistically, I am a democratic socialist.

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;32838565]May I ask why is most of FP obsessed with Communism?[/QUOTE] Not so sure, I think they believe it's "superior" as an economic structure. It's not. Equality and the idea that humans should be equal is stupid, due to the fact that no lawyer who worked for most of his life to get where he is would willingly accept getting paid the same amount of money as a toilet cleaner at the local nightclub, so they have to enforce it with lots and lots of violence. This idea of humane unenforced equality is naive, at best, and turns out bloody, every time.

Anarchy

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;32838565]May I ask why is most of FP obsessed with Communism?[/QUOTE] Because [i]on paper/in theory[/i] (and that's very important) it's more or less the perfect government system. The thing is no country in the history of mankind has ever done communism right so it's (rightfully) got a bad rap.

What a coincidence, just last night my Mm cleaned out the attack and gave me all her sociology books since I'm studying it now. The thing is they have hardly anything on postmodernism and funstionalism becuase they're from her Uni days (~30 years old), but they're full to the brim on Marxism and Feminism. Should be some interesting reads. And I'd avoid going out with mein kampf in public if I were you.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;32838852]Is this simply a scholarly interest, or are you doing this for posterity's sake? I can never really tell these days; communism has become something of a fashion statement. The Conflict Theorist vision of the world that was penned by philosophers like Marx is incredibly naive, in my opinion. The world is not divided into such simple categories, and its problems are not so easily pinned on any one class.[/QUOTE] Purely interest. I see no reason for anyone to brag or show off that they "believe" in a certain system, you trust what you trust. Honestly I feel like right now I'm leaning now towards a socialist style, but that's because I'm not too sure about other systems (one of my main reasons for getting these books is to learn more about the system). [editline]18th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zackin5;32838806]Congrats on being added to the government's watch list. And do I spy a pocket knife with a Boy Scout emblem on it?[/QUOTE] Second one to say that, and yes you do. It's a brilliant knife, I'll give it that much.

Don't believe a lot of the stuff in Mein Kampf, Hitler exaggerated a lot of it, and other times just flat out lied.

[QUOTE=GunFox;32838552]Just remember, Marx was not a Marxist.[/QUOTE] uh, I'm pretty sure he was a classical marxist if you're in high school you can throw marxists and other historical materialists together even if you're sticking francis fukayama next to Trotsky (lol) [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Big Dumb American;32838852] The Conflict Theorist vision of the world that was penned by philosophers like Marx is incredibly naive, in my opinion. The world is not divided into such simple categories, and its problems are not so easily pinned on any one class.[/QUOTE] are you talking about [I]just[/I] marxist conflict theories or all the others? I presume not because you only mentioned class postcolonial and post post post (or however many posts we're at now) feminism and other conflict theories respond to that quite well, and I've yet to see a non-conflict theorist perspective which wasn't absurdly universalizing and naive

Honestly, OP, I hope that you have alot of time on your hands because digesting Capital is a hell of a job. You're better off buying and reading the Portable Karl Marx by the Viking Portable Library, which contains most of the more important works and I believe sections from Capital that reflect the philosophy and major critiques without the droning hundreds of pages of specific complaints. Capital is mainly a set of dry reads filled with critique of the capitalist system of the time, and while that's all fine and dandy, it really had little sway in modern socialism, communism, or leftism in general. The philosophical portions of it are what usually get people drooling over it, but honestly, he's so vague on most of it and its spread out throughout the books and written so complicatedly, you're better off just reading the Wikipedia articles on it, or getting some simplified version of the book. If you want my opinion, you're better off reading Lenin, Trotsky, Bukharin, and Luxemburg, or just any post-1900s socialist or communist philosophers or politicians (but mostly politicians). They're not only far more easily comprehended, but make far more sense for the current time. While you're not likely to get many agreements between the bunch, they tend to write more about the political philosophy and less about specific nit picking on the system of their time and less about the pure philosophy. Except Trotsky and some of Lenin's stuff, which make frequent use of examples of the capitalist systems of their time. I'd also steer away from modern communist philosophy. The Idea of Communism is what I'm reading now, and while I have respect for Zizek, this collaborative book is all abstract philosophy so far, and tends to steer away from politics. In fact, it really makes that clear that the philosophy and the politics are separate, and focuses on the philosophy. Not political philosophy, just plain abstract philosophy. But that's my opinion. I've been doing alot of reading back-to-back recently on socialist works, and that's really what I got out of the whole mess. [editline]18th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;32838552]Just remember, Marx was not a Marxist.[/QUOTE] Well, he was a communist. He did write for years about his philosophy and participated in politics through the Workingmens' Association. Although he was supported by Engels and Engels was, according to Marx's explanation of things, a bourgeoisie. Saying he wasn't a Marxist is like saying Christ wasn't a Christian, which would kind of be right, except int he case for Marx, he went out and started political organizations based on his beliefs, even if he didn't necessarily follow them himself completely.

Zizek is nuts At times he can be brilliant, but he is ultimately nuts

Ironic that you bought the communist manifesto and Mein Kampf at the same time

[QUOTE=WubWubWompWomp;32840207]It's not. Equality and the idea that humans should be equal is stupid, due to the fact that no lawyer who worked for most of his life to get where he is would willingly accept getting paid the same amount of money as a toilet cleaner at the local nightclub, so they have to enforce it with lots and lots of violence.[/QUOTE] no socialist in the history of the world has ever advocated complete income equality. the whole "doctor getting paid the same as a waiter" is one of the most prolific strawman arguments of the modern age. socialists want to get rid of obscene income disparities, not income disparity full stop.

Who has the time to read books?

[QUOTE=WubWubWompWomp;32840207]Not so sure, I think they believe it's "superior" as an economic structure. It's not. Equality and the idea that humans should be equal is stupid, due to the fact that no lawyer who worked for most of his life to get where he is would willingly accept getting paid the same amount of money as a toilet cleaner at the local nightclub, so they have to enforce it with lots and lots of violence. This idea of humane unenforced equality is naive, at best, and turns out bloody, every time.[/QUOTE] What the fuck? I totally missed this post. It can now be assumed that your understanding of socialism and communism goes as far as what you hear from other people, because if you had read any literature from the Marxist point of view, you [i]should[/i] know that this idea does not exist in Marxism. The "iron clad law of wages" has a bloody section dedicated to it in Capital (not under that name), was talked about in Critique of the Gotha Programme, mentioned in several other works by Marx, evaluated on by Lenin in State and Revolution, mentioned in What is the be Done?, and explained in full by several members of the German SPD and Workingmen's Association. The idea of equal wages in socialism and communism is a myth created by ignorant rightists with no understanding of either system, and continued to be perpetrated by those with no understanding of the system and only go off what they've been told. Not all labor is equal, so not all labor will be paid equally.