David Cage: L.A Noire tech is 'interesting dead end', Quantic's new approach is the future
49 replies, posted
[quote=CVG]
Heavy Rain creator David Cage has predicted that photo-realistic graphics will be possible within the next six years - and revealed that he is unconvinced by the long-term potential of new facial capture techniques used to make Rockstar's L.A Noire.
Speaking to CVG, Cage said that Quantic Dream is already employing new technology to capture full body performance in unannounced games. He claimed these projects were already showing "significant progress" on what the studio achieved with Heavy Rain last year.
L.A Noire benefits from DepthAnalysis' Motion Scan technology, which requires in-game actors re-record scenes whilst just their head is filmed by 32 HD cameras from various angles. This has allowed developer Team Bondi to represent subtle facial movements during gameplay. Bondi and L.A Noire co-creator Rockstar have proudly claimed that MotionScan represents a "revolution" for motion capture in games, but Cage is less convinced.
He told CVG: "What to say about L.A Noire? I think it's an interesting solution to a problem for now. But it's also an interesting dead end. That's exactly what I feel. Their technique is incredibly expensive and they will never be able to shoot body and face at the same time."
Cage revealed that Quantic Dream is using performance capture that reads both actors' body and faces in one shot - which he believes will lead to real graphical advancement.
"We are doing that now [at Quantic], and our next games will be shot with performance capture," he explained. "We see a huge difference between shooting the face and body separately and shooting everything at the same time. Suddenly you've got a real sense of acting that is consistent. You can't imagine how related what you say with your face is to what your body does.
"[Those using MotionScan] will never be able to do that. The other thing is that they can't have real time lighting. Their technique means they can't have lighting the way I think we should do it. Basically, they take pictures; they take scans several times per frame. They also have limitations on the shaders they use, they can't re-target the eyes because they eyes are captured. When you have actors in real time you like to to re-target the eyes to make sure they look at each other [convincingly] etc. etc.
"It's a list of important problems that cannot be solved with their technology. I think L.A Noire looks good - honestly, it does - but I don't think they'll go much further than where they are. With the technology we use, we can improve; there is a lot of room for improvement and we hope to show very soon where we are now. We've made significant progress since Heavy Rain and will continue to make progress until we reach the stage of Avatar. That is probably three, four five years from now."
When we asked if Cage was referring to the photo-realistic visuals seen in James Cameron's blockbuster movie, he replied:
"Yes. Four or five years. Maybe it's going to require a new [gaming] platform, but when you look at where real-time is right now, it's probably where CG was five, six years ago. You can say there's a five-year gap between CG and real time. Avatar was released last year, so that's where we should be in five, six years from now."
Rockstar this week revealed that L.A Noire will be the first video game to ever feature at the respected Tribeca Film Festival in New York next month. The detective thriller will be released on 360 and PS3 in May.
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Source:
[url]http://www.computerandvideogames.com/296388/news/david-cage-la-noire-tech-is-interesting-dead-end-quantics-new-approach-is-the-future/[/url]
Cage needs to shut the fuck up.
Eh, I can't even tell if he was making an argument or a fucking statement. I bet he's just mad because Heavy Rain can't be like L.A. Noire. :v:
Because Quick Time Event: The Game really opened doors for gaming's future.
I guess with the advent of "art games" we need pretentious artists.
Haha, shut your mouth David Cage. At least LA Noire won't be a fucking bad movie with quicktime events.
what happened to days when game people would just do stuff to do with games and stop making dumb statements
I really can't understand what all the hype about heavy rain was about, it was just lots of quick time events and dialogue options, playing it was akin to watching a film, whereas LA noire actually has gameplay
Wait. He's complaining about them progressing in motion capture? Heavy Rain was good, but the one thing that really annoyed me was the movements characters made, they were stiff, clunky and just nasty. Like they really half arsed their motion capture.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;28932705]Wait. He's complaining about them progressing in motion capture? Heavy Rain was good, but the one thing that really annoyed me was the movements characters made, they were stiff, clunky and just nasty. Like they really half arsed their motion capture.[/QUOTE]
Lets not forget the lack of lip syncing
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28932660]I really can't understand what all the hype about heavy rain was about, it was just lots of quick time events and dialogue options, playing it was akin to watching a film, whereas LA noire actually has gameplay[/QUOTE]
You do realize that's pretty much what they were going for, what a movie you could interact with.
Either way, I get where he's coming from.
[QUOTE=NorthernGate;28932812]You do realize that's pretty much what they were going for, what a movie you could interact with.
Either way, I get where he's coming from.[/QUOTE]
I'll admit the game was incredibly fun and involving, but it really has nothing on something like LA noire
[QUOTE=NorthernGate;28932812]You do realize that's pretty much what they were going for, what a movie you could interact with.
Either way, I get where he's coming from.[/QUOTE]It was a terrible movie that you could interactive.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28932836]I'll admit the game was incredibly fun and involving, but it really has nothing on something like LA noire[/QUOTE]
Because you've played LA Noire.
But he's right about one thing, 32 HD cameras and you have to do it god knows how many times for facial and body movements separately.
IT is a dead end. It adds an un-needed level of complexity to an already complex process. I don't know what Quantic is doing, but if it can do both shots at once, then maybe it is better.
Stop taking it as he's saying LA Noire is going to be a bad game.
[quote] Their technique is incredibly expensive and they will never be able to shoot body and face at the same time."[/quote]
He's right, their approach (while I don't pretend to understand the specifics) seems to be ahead of L.A Noire's.
[QUOTE=Legend286;28932553]Haha, shut your mouth David Cage. At least LA Noire won't be a fucking bad movie with quicktime events.[/QUOTE]
Have you played it yet? Rockstar has made mediocre games in the past, you never know.
Before anyone flies off the handle, I don't mean recently.
I'll care when he can show me something better.
Heavy Rain was only good because of the low expectations on video game stories - and the fact interacting with a character immerses you in them by near default, even if written poorly.
If it was condensed into a crime thriller or tv show, it would be mocked and ridiculed.
As a game, it was passable because it was something different.
I'll be impressed when it's not just some fancy fully scripted motion capture that you can't even interrupt because you just get pushed out of the way as you walk into an NPC.
:mad:
"The future" eh?
How many people say this about something, then it turns out to be a dud? Or just an exclusive for one thing ever produced that never sees the light of day again?
[editline]1st April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28934149]I'll care when he can show me something better.[/QUOTE]
This.
[QUOTE=PariahKing;28934636]Heavy Rain was only good because of the low expectations on video game stories - and the fact interacting with a character immerses you in them by near default, even if written poorly.
If it was condensed into a crime thriller or tv show, it would be mocked and ridiculed.
As a game, it was passable because it was something different.[/QUOTE]
To be honest it is hard to make something realistsic and fun, although I thought the ending was a bit dull though, not much in the way of surprises (and the fight at the end was ridiculously dull, with neither characters saying a word during the fight).
Finally we will be able to Jason in photorealistic graphics.
I didn't like Heavy Rain because everything was rather predictable.
He is not saying LA Noir is bad, he is saying their technique is still not even near the best achievable.
Oh shit David Cage is being edgy and intelligent, watch out people.
Fuck their new technology, they should put that on hold until we get Heavy Rain on PC.
Well, he's kinda right here. Yeah, it looks so much more realistic than any other face animation system ever, but it's so much more harder and more complex to do that I don't think it's worth any of it. I mean, they need to get separate actors (and good actors aswell) for every single character in the game and they need to get a perfect recording of them doing all the scenes, while other methods just use some system that animates the face on its own, so they only need the voice acting for it and can use it with any face model they want.
this is the BIGGEST downfall of both systems, you need good actors to play the characters, not interns from the office! im looking at you LA Noire, with your shitty acting and body movement, no fault of the system, just bad acting.
Yeah, so what if it's expensive. It may be complex and so much more harder but if Rockstar is willing to take that route then it shows how determined they are to making this game a hit. They could've easily half-assed it.
