Russia recognizes passports from Ukrainian separatists, stoking annexation fears - Polidicks

[img]http://i.imgur.com/kFjHMbN.jpg?1[/img] [QUOTE]Russian president Vladimir Putin has signed an order recognizing passports issued by separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine, prompting alarm from the United States and Ukrainian officials amid fears it could represent a step by Moscow towards declaring the rebel regions independent states. The executive order recognizes passports and other documents issued by the self-declared People's Republics of Lugansk and Donetsk, the two rebel republics that have established themselves with Russian support in an ongoing war against Ukraine's government. The republics are currently unrecognized -- including by Russia -- but Moscow has secretly supplied them with arms and money, and has covertly deployed its own military to carve out their territory. The order published by the Kremlin said residents of Lugansk and Donetsk would now be able to enter Russia "just upon presenting IDs issued by relevant bodies de facto operating in the given areas," referring to the separatist authorities. It also recognized birth and marriage certificates, drivers licenses and educational qualifications among other documents issued by the rebels.[/QUOTE] [url]http://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-recognizes-passports-ukrainian-separatists-stoking-annexation-fears/story?id=45600840[/url]

Next step: Hold "democratic" referendum over whether to join Russia or just become an "independent" state.

[QUOTE=Drury;51848133]Next step: Hold "democratic" referendum over whether to join Russia or just become an "independent" state.[/QUOTE] They're already independent states. See Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic.

[QUOTE=Drury;51848133]Next step: Hold "democratic" referendum over whether to join Russia or just become an "independent" state.[/QUOTE] Munich Agreement 2: Electric Boogaloo when?

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848172]They're already independent states. See Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic.[/QUOTE] they don't exactly have the full powers, recognition, and abilities as independent states though you might as well be arguing that ISIS constitutes an independent state

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51848185]they don't exactly have the full powers, recognition, and abilities as independent states though you might as well be arguing that ISIS constitutes an independent state[/QUOTE] ISIS is by definition a state. They are a political entity governing territory. Infact, I think ISIS is more independent than the LNR/DNR considering Russia's influence.

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;51848181]Munich Agreement 2: Electric Boogaloo when?[/QUOTE] That was Crimea, this will wrap up the trilogy.

[QUOTE=Drury;51848197]That was Crimea, this will wrap up the trilogy.[/QUOTE] The books were better anyway

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;51848181]Munich Agreement 2: Electric Boogaloo when?[/QUOTE] We never get any original IPs any more. All reboots, sequels, remakes and soft-reboots. I can't even remember the last time we had a completely original war. The Anglo-Finnish war, maybe?

[QUOTE=Riller;51848212]We never get any original IPs any more. All reboots, sequels, remakes and soft-reboots. I can't even remember the last time we had a completely original war. The Anglo-Finnish war, maybe?[/QUOTE] Well, the Unga Bunga: Warfare Revolution around 20,000BC was pretty ahead of its time if you ask me.

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848190]ISIS is by definition a state. They are a political entity governing territory. Infact, I think ISIS is more independent than the LNR/DNR considering Russia's influence.[/QUOTE] Of course if your definition of a state is "this ragtag bunch of rebels said it was a state" then you're free to believe in all Sealands of the world but they aren't registered by other states, aren't members of the UN and don't adhere to international treaties therefore they aren't states according to international law.

[QUOTE=Drury;51848225]Of course if your definition of a state is "this ragtag bunch of rebels said it was a state" then you're free to believe in all Sealands of the world but they aren't registered by other states, aren't members of the UN and don't adhere to international treaties therefore they aren't states according to international law.[/QUOTE] Something something state with blackjack and beheading

[QUOTE=Drury;51848225]Of course if your definition of a state is "this ragtag bunch of rebels said it was a state" then you're free to believe in all Sealands of the world but they aren't registered by other states, aren't members of the UN and don't adhere to international treaties therefore they aren't states according to international law.[/QUOTE] Just because they aren't recognized doesn't mean they don't govern.. it just means they're the enemy. It's like saying Nazi Germany wasn't a state because they're enemies and were globally condemned.

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848265]Just because they aren't recognized doesn't mean they don't govern.. it just means they're the enemy. It's like saying Nazi Germany wasn't a state because they're enemies and were globally condemned.[/QUOTE] You said they were a state by definition, that is not true. By definition they are a disputed territory, no matter how many IDs they hand out.

[QUOTE=Drury;51848283]You said they were a state by definition, that is not true. By definition they are a disputed territory, no matter how many IDs they hand out.[/QUOTE] Dictionary definition. Not UN definition. [url]https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/state[/url] [QUOTE]A nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government.[/QUOTE] It might be disputed land which this state controls but that doesn't mean they're not a state. They have a full organized government with territory and a military.

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848288]Dictionary definition. Not UN definition. [url]https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/state[/url][/QUOTE] [quote]considered[/quote] I consider my apartment a state, does that make it one? International community has no good reasons to consider these territories states and you shouldn't either.

[QUOTE=Drury;51848313]I consider my apartment a state, does that make it one? International community has no good reasons to consider these territories states and you shouldn't either.[/QUOTE] No. I don't think your apartment has a military capable of fighting off the Ukrainian Army. Your argument is by definition, a straw man argument.

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848315]No. I don't think your apartment has a military capable of fighting off the Ukrainian Army. Your argument is by definition, a straw man argument.[/QUOTE] Ok then I consider USS Independence a state. Where the fuck is this going. A state is defined by its recognition among other things, you should have been taught this in grade school. If nobody thinks you're a state, you're not a state, simple as.

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848315]No. I don't think your apartment has a military capable of fighting off the Ukrainian Army. Your argument is by definition, a straw man argument.[/QUOTE] Even your own definition you posted doesn't include any reference to military, how is that even relevant?

[QUOTE=Drury;51848325]Ok then I consider USS Independence a state. Where the fuck is this going. A state is defined by its recognition among other things, you should have been taught this in grade school. If nobody thinks you're a state, you're not a state, simple as.[/QUOTE] The USS independence isn't a political entity...

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848332]The USS independence isn't a political entity...[/QUOTE] It's almost like it's not a state. [editline]20th February 2017[/editline] Like some rebels handing out papers.

[QUOTE=Drury;51848336]It's almost like it's not a state. [editline]20th February 2017[/editline] Like some rebels handing out papers.[/QUOTE] They have a government with politicians... that more than meets the definition of political entity.. they're alot more organized than you think.. maybe do some research into the subject..

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848350]They have a government with politicians... that more than meets the definition of political entity.. they're alot more organized than you think.. maybe do some research into the subject..[/QUOTE] So? That doesn't make them a state.

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;51848355]So? That doesn't make them a state.[/QUOTE] According to Oxfords definition it does..?

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848366]According to Oxfords definition it does..?[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, I completely forgot worls lives and works on how Oxford defines it. No recognizes it as a state so it's not one.

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;51848376]Oh yeah, I completely forgot worls lives and works on how Oxford defines it. [B]No recognizes[/B] it as a state so it's not one.[/QUOTE] Russia apparently does...?

[QUOTE=chernisreal?;51848378]Russia apparently does...?[/QUOTE] One shithole of a state endorses other shithole's attempts to become a state, got me on that one while no one else really does. Look, if you think they qualify as a state based on their words and words of Russia, a state which thinks it's a-okay to go and "liberate" parts of other countries because "muh oppressed minorities" reasons, then I guess they are a state to [B]YOU[/B]. But according to an international law's criteria of creating a state, which is what I'm going with, they are not a state.

That region should be allowed to join with Russia, it's way past devolution now.

From a purely humanitarian perspective, they would be better off joining Russia as it would allow the people more opportunity in terms of education and career.

[QUOTE=Drury;51848225]Of course if your definition of a state is "this ragtag bunch of rebels said it was a state" then you're free to believe in all Sealands of the world but they aren't registered by other states, aren't members of the UN and don't adhere to international treaties therefore they aren't states according to international law.[/QUOTE] So North Korea isn't a state? Because they sure as shit don't give a fuck about international law.