• Egyptian military forces accidentally massacre 12 tourists and wound 10 more in the Sinai believing
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[quote]Security forces in Egypt have [B]mistakenly killed 12 people, including Mexican tourists, during an anti-terror operation,[/B] the interior ministry says. The tourists were travelling in four vehicles that [B]entered a restricted zone in the Wahat area of the Western Desert, a ministry statement said.[/B] Ten Mexicans and Egyptians were also injured and are being treated in a local hospital. The ministry said it had formed a team to investigate the incident. Mexico's President Enrique Pena Nieto condemned the incident and said he had "demanded an exhaustive investigation by the Egyptian government". [B]The Mexican foreign ministry confirmed that at least two of its nationals had been killed and said it was working to confirm the identities of the other victims.[/B] In a statement, it said Mexico's ambassador in Egypt, Jorge Alvarez Fuentes, had visited the local hospital and spoken to five Mexicans who were in a stable condition. [B]The statement (in Arabic) from Egypt's interior ministry said the four vehicles the tourists were travelling in were "mistakenly dealt with" during a joint military police and armed forces operation. It said the incident happened on Sunday in an area that "was off limits to foreign tourists", but it did not give an exact location. Egyptian officials say the tourists were in a no-go zone - and had not liaised with the authorities. But a local tour guide has denied that, saying the group was in an unrestricted area, on top of sand dunes, trying to get a bird's eye view.[/B] Another local source - who claims to have spoken to a driver who survived the incident - told the BBC that the tour company had co-ordinated with officials and even had a police escort. The group of tourists was preparing to camp out in the vast Western Desert when they came under fire. According to the interior ministry's statement, the security forces were pursuing Islamic militants in the desert, and targeted the four vehicles which were away from the main road with an Apache helicopter, which shot and hit the four vehicles.[/quote] [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34241680[/url]
So who's fault? I confused. please someone help me explain
Why is it every time Egypt's military and special forces are in the news it's always because of a colossal fuck up?
What the fuck, how did they managed to fuck up so badly :suicide: What kind of ROE do they have
[QUOTE=pramadito;48680377]So who's fault? I confused. please someone help me explain[/QUOTE] Government accidentally shot tourists thinking they were militants Government says the tourists were in a restricted area Tour guide says they weren't in a restricted area [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] At this point I don't even see the point of vacationing to the middle east of all places. even in the better areas it's still a dangerous shithole
[QUOTE=cdr248;48680525]Government accidentally shot tourists thinking they were militants Government says the tourists were in a restricted area Tour guide says they weren't in a restricted area [editline]14th September 2015[/editline] At this point I don't even see the point of vacationing to the middle east of all places. even in the better areas it's still a dangerous shithole[/QUOTE] Ok then ty for explaning
It really depends who is right in this case. And who is telling the truth. They say they used an apache helicopter to shoot the cars. I can understand if it was a no-go zone. Sure, it is fucking terrible but if the egyptians aren't lying, then it is a very sad accident.
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;48680553]It really depends who is right in this case. And who is telling the truth. They say they used an apache helicopter to shoot the cars. I can understand if it was a no-go zone. Sure, it is fucking terrible but if the egyptians aren't lying, then it is a very sad accident.[/QUOTE] I forgot Egypt had Apaches.
One's gotta question why they didn't try establishing some form of communication before liquidating an entire squad of cars.
[QUOTE=Tools;48680583]One's gotta question why they didn't try establishing some form of communication before liquidating an entire squad of cars.[/QUOTE] Are you expecting competency from egypt's military? Seriously though, if it really was deep into restricted territory, they'd probably have been spotted by scouts earlier, and trying to communicate with a suspected enemy is a good way of getting shot down.
[QUOTE=Crimor;48680643]Are you expecting competency from egypt's military? Seriously though, if it really was deep into restricted territory, they'd probably have been spotted by scouts earlier, and trying to communicate with a suspected enemy is a good way of getting shot down.[/QUOTE] Well I kinda expected a military force to be capable of taking down a target from a safe distance. With today's technology, they could've sent in a drone for communication, or parachute down a radio.. Anything really, besides shooting at sight.
Was visual confirmation too hard? I mean hell, Mexicans look very different from any Middle Eastern person I've seen.
[QUOTE=Propane Addict;48680951]Was visual confirmation too hard? I mean hell, Mexicans look very different from any Middle Eastern person I've seen.[/QUOTE] I can imagine its next to impossible to see someones nationality through an infra-red camera feed from 100m away.
[QUOTE=Propane Addict;48680951]Was visual confirmation too hard? I mean hell, Mexicans look very different from any Middle Eastern person I've seen.[/QUOTE] I've actually mistaken a mexican for someone from the middle east before. I think they can look quite similar sometimes
[QUOTE=Rowtree;48680495]Why is it every time Egypt's military and special forces are in the news it's always because of a colossal fuck up?[/QUOTE] Maybe because "Egyptian military still exists, still doing things somewhat correctly" doesn't make for as interesting of a news story. It's the same reason you never hear "American cops arrest dangerous criminal". Business as usual isn't worth featuring in the news.
Sounds like a case of shoot first ask questions never. In fact this probably happens a lot over there. The only difference this time is that they were tourisits. And because of that its the only reason we are hearing about it now.
Sounds like a tremendous fuck up on both ends.
All of the Middle East is a restricted zone, these days. "Safe zones" included, since terrorists like to target them into the "unsafe" category.
Maybe I'm crazy to think this but if you have to coordinate with the military to go drive in certain areas, maybe you shouldn't be taking tourists there at all? It's one thing if you have to drive through there because you're a local and you have business you must attend to, but tourism?
[QUOTE=Crimor;48680643]Are you expecting competency from egypt's military?[/QUOTE]Egypt has always had a very competent military, that's the whole reason why Israel struck Egypt's airfields preemptively in the Six-Day War. I'll explain why competency doesn't matter in a bit. [QUOTE=Tools;48680933]Well I kinda expected a military force to be capable of taking down a target from a safe distance. With today's technology, they could've sent in a drone for communication, or parachute down a radio.. Anything really, besides shooting at sight.[/QUOTE]what the fuck am i reading No, the reason why actual military engagements don't start off with alerting the target to their current predicament by [i]giving them your communications gear[/i] is because that's several levels of stupid. What likely happened was they looked a lot like their usual bad guy targets and there was likely some radio chatter about this and it was probably basically, "those look like bad guys," "yeah, they probably are." Likely there was a failure to carefully check these things, this happens [i]all the time[/i] even with the best military forces in the world and it's how blue-on-blue incidents happen. This behavior happens all the time on all sorts of jobs, I saw it go bad with my own eyes and I was in the middle of warning the guy not to skip a safety check. I literally finished saying, "you should really stop and put the guard down," right before watching a guy slice off three of his fingers. These things quickly escalate to tragedy because it becomes this self-reassurance thing, and the problem is really one of complacency. Rather than calling in and waiting ten minutes to hear back what you already knew, sometimes even the most skilled and level-headed individuals will just skip the step and light a motherfucker up because all the other times it's been a bad guy down range. That attitude works right up until you kill twelve innocent people.
[QUOTE=Rowtree;48680495]Why is it every time Egypt's military and special forces are in the news it's always because of a colossal fuck up?[/QUOTE] The word you're looking for is "incompetent".
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