"modders dont create content out of the kindness of their hearts"
how presumptuous of you
I agree with TB's idea of a patreon like system where its "encouraged" donations for the modders to receive. Valve could take a small cut and everyone wins.
[QUOTE=Scot;47585422]"modders dont create content out of the kindness of their hearts"
how presumptuous of you[/QUOTE]
Some do and they can make it for free if they want to, but a lot of modders put in the work of a full time job or more to create their mods and if they want to sell it they deserve that right, nobody's making you buy it.
It is very shaky ground IMO. In some ways, yeah I think modders deserve to be paid for their work, it IS work all the same, but in others I think this is puts forth a bad precedent for the future of mods, or at least the workshop itself.
Also I can't help but shake the feeling that Valve's doing this just to make money, and that they don't give two shits about supporting modders. Taking 75% on shit they had absolutely no part in making for a game that's not theirs is not just absurd, it's fucking scumbaggy, nothing less.
Regardless, I support it for the most part as it currently stands. That may change as time goes on, we'll see.
[editline]23rd April 2015[/editline]
And that first mod in the video reel is made by a Facepuncher, IIRC!
As I said in the Steam thread, I do not think this is a bad thing. Vote with wallets etc.
However I'd much rather see a donation/ Pay want you want type of option because that would be a good middle ground that SHOULD NOT offend people for a valid reason.
I'd pay for some mods for sure but thing is many mods are only good cause they are mods. Often they will have bugs etc. If I was a modder, I'd not put many mods if any for sale only cause that is just not viable due to the bugs and the fact that you need exposure.
Lets not forget that some people who make mods actually get jobs because of their mods. Also, again, nobody is forcing you to buy these mods. There was clearly some kind of demand from bethesda/modders for this or else they would not have accepted this.
I'm with my friend 'Gunny who has made far more Total War mods than I have. He was part of the team that created one of the biggest mods for Total War (The Great War mod) without official tools, and having to do a lot of creative shit. They didn't even want donations. Team Leader and LUA coder .Mitch was recently hired by CA (company that makes Total War).
[quote]I somewhat disagree. I am a modder who has worked on several large modifications for the Total War series (such as The Great War mod, Divide et Impera, and Constantine: Rise of Christianity) and though the discussion came up to possibly use adfly or other pay-for-click services, it was largely as a joke. We mod because we enjoy messing around with the game and creating something. It's a hobby, not a job (Though Mitch from TGW recently got hired by the Creative Assembly thanks to his stellar mod work!) Sure some people will see it as a way to make money and pump out minimal quality stuff to try to make a quick buck, but a lot of people who see modding as the end itself, rather than a means an end, will continue to make mods for their own enjoyment. I could never imagine Dresden, head of Divide et Impera, making the mod monetized even if CA let us, and hell he's bought three copies of Rome II just to be able to upload all the versions of DeI and Constantine: Rise of Christianity.
Another thing that needs addressing is the steam workshop itself. I... kinda hate it. It's massively inefficient because it doesn't allow us to compress our mods, which leads to issues like that I described above in which Dresden had to buy multiple copies of the game in order to upload all of DeI. Even then, here were bugs that came with it, such as buggy textures due to poor transferrence. TW overhaul modders largely prefer TotalWarCenter over the Steam workshop simply because the workshop is kind of a pain in the ass. Here's hoping it never becomes the only way to get mods into TW.
In short, no we are not all going to charge for the stuff if given the chance. It's a hobby, something that most of us do for fun, rather than money. I would prefer a thank you any day, especially as a vocal minority of people already tend to be fairly entitled when it comes to mods. God it would be a nightmare, having to deal with people like those who buy early access and suddenly feel like they are part of the design team. I feel like charging for a mod would put a level of being beholden to those who paid for the mod, and that is something I, nad most other modders I know, would never willingly subject myself to.
Edit: Thinking about it, I had a shitty little event pictures mod on the Rome 2 workshop with over 27,000 subs. What if I monetized it for a buck, or even 50 cents (even though it is completely not worth it, and I doubt anyone would actually pay that much for it) MUWAHAHAHAHA!
But it also leads to an interesting question: sure that events mod is a small thing made pretty much solely by me with some help from people who let me use some of their artwork, but how the hell would one divvy up %s for larger mod teams such as Divide et Impera. Hell, we had easily over 10 people working together to make the 1.0 release a reality, how on earth could a large mod team expect to realistically divide up profits without tearing the team apart. Hell, how would I give parts of the profits to people like /u/Chewiemuse whose artwork make up a large part of my event pictures. It's a very tricky situation that I think many mods would seek to avoid altogether.[/quote]
I hope the really popular mods won't delete everything off nexus and hide behind a paywall on steam.
[QUOTE=Scot;47585422]"modders dont create content out of the kindness of their hearts"
how presumptuous of you[/QUOTE]
He is cynical after all...
[QUOTE=MILKE;47585716]I hope the really popular mods won't delete everything off nexus and hide behind a paywall on steam.[/QUOTE]
Some modders are already taking their most popular mods and putting new and improved versions on the workshop for a price, making only the older versions free.
Once again Biscuit comes in as a good voice of reasoning between the arguments.
But I think we can agree that Valve has been slowly turning into a new EA. I mean seriously, 75% on a game you didn't make, and all this Pseudo Monopoly crap?
For shame.
[QUOTE=~Kiwi~v2;47585496]75% is a bit much. If I was a modder that was being paid through this content system I'd settle for 20-25%~ not 75.[/QUOTE]
Steam takes 75%, not the modder.
I wouldn't even pay for mods like that.
This happened 22 days too late.
I think people will find not a lot of people are willing to buy their mod, the negative backlash for both supporting the idea and adding a paywall to your mod, and having less people using your mod to cause this sort of thing to slowly die down.
despite the ridiculous cut valve takes, i think it's a good thing that they are trying to pull more people into making money of their projects and further be motivated to create more high-quality content
if this becomes a real job like in dota and cs:go, it might pull more great developer into the video game industry, which is never a bad idea
also, the "what if the developer patches the game and breaks the mod"-argument falls flat in this case because bethesda doesn't update skyrim anymore, but that might not be the case for future games this system might be implemented in
I assume there is a cut for Bethesda somewhere inside that 75%.
[QUOTE=zeldar;47585798]Some modders are already taking their most popular mods and putting new and improved versions on the workshop for a price, making only the older versions free.[/QUOTE]
Provided that the old versions are not 5 years old (highly unlikely) then I'm perfectly fine with this.
A lot of open source professional systems have a similar model to this, where you can have pretty much all the features of the professional version in a GPL version for free, but only receive biannual updates, or you can pay up and receive support and SVN access (updates when they happen).
Something I'd like to see a lot more, because for the most part it makes sense. If you want all the latest and greatest and best, you can pay whatever or pay what is set in stone, and get what you pay for. Otherwise, you can still enjoy the (hopefully only slightly) outdated and lacks-a-few-features version, which is still just as full as the paid version.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47585877]Once again Biscuit comes in as a good voice of reasoning between the arguments.
But I think we can agree that Valve has been slowly turning into a new EA. I mean seriously, 75% on a game you didn't make, and all this Pseudo Monopoly crap?
For shame.[/QUOTE]
Something tells me this is less Steam and more Bethesda/Zenimax at work and Valve going along with the flow as a result.
how much of the 75% goes to the maker of the game the mod is for?
"sih-multaneously"
[QUOTE=Scot;47585422]"modders dont create content out of the kindness of their hearts"
how presumptuous of you[/QUOTE]
That point specifically is ridiculous.
The mod communities for HL1/2, UT2004 and Doom (20 years worth of modding bare in mind) which are by far the biggest and most successful in the modding scene did that shit because they loved it.
The problem now is it'll be the same as steam greenlight. A few decent ones worth the money and an avalanche of shitty stolen content created for quick cash.
[QUOTE=joshuadim;47585452]I agree with TB's idea of a patreon like system where its "encouraged" donations for the modders to receive. Valve could take a small cut and everyone wins.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but knowing Valve it'll still be this generous and obviously not greedy 25/75 split in their favour. Because the benevolent savior and all-but-monopoly over PC gaming is so kind and generous to give us these well thought out and properly implemented systems.
The FAQ for this system alone is a fucking joke, and I would say it's safe to assume that the guy in charge of this entire project at Valve took four seconds max to consider any downfalls to this addition before simply shrugging and saying "fuck em, who cares about the consumer or modders when we can just make money."
This system is bad for modders and it's bad for the consumer for a lot of reasons, the fact that modders can make money from their work isn't one of them, but the portioning of the money sure fucking is.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;47586043]Something tells me this is less Steam and more Bethesda/Zenimax at work and Valve going along with the flow as a result.[/QUOTE]
Valve's been doing alot of sketchy shit lately, and no, it's pretty much certain that most of that 75% goes through valve.
Bethesda made Skyrim work only through steam on PC. You NEED steam to play Skyrim on PC.
Valve is all on top of this mate.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;47586043]Something tells me this is less Steam and more Bethesda/Zenimax at work and Valve going along with the flow as a result.[/QUOTE]
Not really considering it's been confirmed by a lot of indie devs that they only see ~30% of the cost of their game when they sell a copy on steam.
Honestly I hope steam loses a massive amount of market share in the following years. If I were a game developer I'd release my games on every platform possible EXCEPT Steam just because I care about the shit I create and the people that consume it. Yeah Valve is a company and Steam takes money for upkeep and shit, but the service quality they provide compared to the amount they take to be middlemen is fucking disgusting, not to mention that the amount they take alone is pretty dickish.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47585877]Once again Biscuit comes in as a good voice of reasoning between the arguments.
But I think we can agree that Valve has been slowly turning into a new EA. I mean seriously, 75% on a game you didn't make, and all this Pseudo Monopoly crap?
For shame.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure those 75% aren't all for Steam, I bet Bethesda takes a cut as well, very likely the bigger one too, other people selling mods for their game isn't something devs are okay with very easily.
[QUOTE=spekter;47586085]That point specifically is ridiculous.
The mod communities for HL1/2, UT2004 and Doom (20 years worth of modding bare in mind) which are by far the biggest and most successful in the modding scene did that shit because they loved it.
The problem now is it'll be the same as steam greenlight. A few decent ones worth the money and an avalanche of shitty stolen content created for quick cash.[/QUOTE]
[U]doom 1[/U] is still a hot topic 21 years ago because of how much people care about modding without pay
modding is one of the most, if not THE MOST, important thing for a game to stay relevant. Without modding, it will die out extremely fast compared to if it had even a little bit of modding.
Just imagine, Fallout 4 is released, but is missing a lot of QoL shit that should be in the game, someone comes along and creates a mod that fixes it, charges 10$ or whatever, and a month later bethesda patches in those QoL changes
[QUOTE=Pvt Anderson;47586072]"sih-multaneously"[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/C0slbZz.png[/IMG]
It's kind of not an American pronunciation if that hasn't hit you yet. No need to be ethnocentric.
I fail to see how this is dumb, but okay guys.
Total conversions or bottom up mods like Garrys Mod, Insurgency, Killing Floor, Cry of Fear, etc. totally deserve to be paid for content. However, this "pay for a cosmetic mod, item, character, etc." doesn't make any sense to me.
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