First off, if you're a rabid Mac OS X fanboy, your services are not required here.
As someone who has quite an interest in UI/web design, naturally, Apple's products highly interest me. As a result of that, and also as a result of looking into applications made for Mac OS X, like Things and Coda, over time, I've grown more and more interest in Mac OS X, which has been especially compounded by the recent confirmation that Valve was/is porting Steam and their games to Mac OS X, one of the primary factors that were holding me back from taking the jump to Mac OS X.
So what else is holding me back?
Since I've been a Windows user for practically all my life, it's a given that I would be heavily used to it. Since I'm a power user, at that, I also am used to the multitudes of keyboard shortcuts and whatnot.
I've had a look into Mac OS X's workflow style countless times. It feels incredibly welcoming with its design, but it's also incredibly alienating with its different keyboard layout and positioning of screen elements.
I've done my own research and have tried Mac OS X in a VM, but I still have questions that I would like answered by Mac OS X users. Here are those that I can think of right now:
[b]1.[/b] Have you used Windows 7 and used the superbar in its default form extensively, or at least enough to form a general opinion on it compared to the Dock? If so, which do you prefer? Why?
[b]2.[/b] In Windows 7, I have an icon on my taskbar to show Explorer. In my testing of Mac OS X, to open a Finder window, I need to click the Finder icon, then click File -> "New Finder window...". This seems somewhat counterproductive. Surely there is a better way?
[b]3.[/b] This is what I find most disorientating. The equivalent to Windows' menu bar is always at the top, at all times, no matter where your window is, and what size it is, and whether there's some other window visible elsewhere on the screen at the same time. Do you find this to be better or worse than Windows' workflow? Why?
[b]4.[/b] Do you prefer Photoshop's window layout on Windows or on Mac OS X? Elaborate if you'd like.
[b]5.[/b] Do you find the need for Wine (MacPorts or Darwine), Parallels, VMware and/or VirtualBox? What for?
[b]6.[/b] Windows converts: Do you miss Windows and/or its applications?
Thanks.
[quote][b]1.[/b] Have you used Windows 7 and used the superbar in its default form extensively, or at least enough to form a general opinion on it compared to the Dock? If so, which do you prefer? Why?[/quote]
I used Windows 7 and its superbar from the RC until winter. They are pretty similar, and really, its not something worth worrying about. However, if I had to choose, I'd pick the dock, because I like having the ability to have my download folder open in a fan, which I can easily drag and drop from.
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Screen_shot_2010-03-07_at_08.11_.29_.png[/img]
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Screen_shot_2010-03-07_at_08.11_.37_.png[/img]
I think it may be possible to do this on the superbar to a more limited extent.
[quote][b]2.[/b] In Windows 7, I have an icon on my taskbar to show Explorer. In my testing of Mac OS X, to open a Finder window, I need to click the Finder icon, then click File -> "New Finder window...". This seems somewhat counterproductive. Surely there is a better way?[/quote]
I'm not sure about this. For me it opens the window when I click the Finder icon.
[quote][b]3.[/b] This is what I find most disorientating. The equivalent to Windows' menu bar is always at the top, at all times, no matter where your window is, and what size it is, and whether there's some other window visible elsewhere on the screen at the same time. Do you find this to be better or worse than Windows' workflow? Why?[/quote]
I know where it is on every App, so for me it is quicker than having different menu formats on every program. I also find the ability the search the menu for a function via 'Help' pretty useful. As far as I can remember, most Apps have that. It's just having constant access to the menu in the same place all the time.
[quote][b]4.[/b] Do you prefer Photoshop's window layout on Windows or on Mac OS X? Elaborate if you'd like.[/quote]
I don't like Photoshop due to the amount of crap it installs. However, I've used it on OS X in school, and it had a better layout than the version installed on Windows in my opinion. Granted though, this was CS4, and the version on the Windows computer was much older.
[quote][b]5.[/b] Do you find the need for Wine (MacPorts or Darwine), Parallels, VMware and/or VirtualBox? What for?[/quote]
No, I don't. I used to use CrossOver (Wine basically) for Steam, but that's no longer an issue.
[quote][b]6.[/b] Windows converts: Do you miss Windows and/or its applications?[/quote]
Missed Steam. Not really a worry for me anymore. As for Windows, I can't think of anything I miss. Gaming is the only reason I choose to still use it.
Feel free to add me on Google Talk or MSN if you want to ask anything that might be more difficult to explain: [email]ibutsuwa@gmail.com[/email]
^ this guy pretty much said everything I was going to say and was way more descriptive than I would've been.
[quote][b]1.[/b] Have you used Windows 7 and used the superbar in its default form extensively, or at least enough to form a general opinion on it compared to the Dock? If so, which do you prefer? Why?
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote][b]2.[/b] In Windows 7, I have an icon on my taskbar to show Explorer. In my testing of Mac OS X, to open a Finder window, I need to click the Finder icon, then click File -> "New Finder window...". This seems somewhat counterproductive. Surely there is a better way?
[/quote]
Click on your desktop to clear any programs running in the foreground and press cmd (windows key) + n, and you get a new finder window.
[quote][b]3.[/b] This is what I find most disorientating. The equivalent to Windows' menu bar is always at the top, at all times, no matter where your window is, and what size it is, and whether there's some other window visible elsewhere on the screen at the same time. Do you find this to be better or worse than Windows' workflow? Why?
[/quote]
The menubar is probably the most consistant things I've ever seen in an operating system. In Windows you get a lot of programs that do all kinds of strange things with their menubars (e.g. Office's new ribbon UI). In terms of continuity, it's great because it's always there and it's always the same thing.
[quote][b]4.[/b] Do you prefer Photoshop's window layout on Windows or on Mac OS X? Elaborate if you'd like.
[/quote]
Personally I prefer the Mac layout, but maybe that's because I prefer using all of Adobe's software on OSX. It comes down to a workflow thing really (because OSX actually assists you, unlike Windows which seems to try it's hardest not to)
[quote][b]5.[/b] Do you find the need for Wine (MacPorts or Darwine), Parallels, VMware and/or VirtualBox? What for?
[/quote]
I've used stuff like crossover in the past, it's quite useful for very small windows programs if you really can't find a Mac alternative (which is rare).
[quote][b]6.[/b] Windows converts: Do you miss Windows and/or its applications?[/QUOTE]
The only thing I miss is Steam (problem solved, now of course). I'm not really a gamer anymore anyway, and the only games I really play are the Total War series, and when I do play I just boot into Windows.
[QUOTE=a2h;20605997]
[b]1.[/b] Have you used Windows 7 and used the superbar in its default form extensively, or at least enough to form a general opinion on it compared to the Dock? If so, which do you prefer? Why?
[/QUOTE]
I use them in the same way - they do pretty much the same thing. Undecided although I really don't like the proliferation of toolbars that do different things - I'd prefer to have them as widgets.
[quote]
[b]2.[/b] In Windows 7, I have an icon on my taskbar to show Explorer. In my testing of Mac OS X, to open a Finder window, I need to click the Finder icon, then click File -> "New Finder window...". This seems somewhat counterproductive. Surely there is a better way?
[/quote]
This is also rather odd - ever since I enabled a "remember finder windows" feature in Tinkertool in 10.4.x ages ago I've always had it open a window or remember windows. I don't bother to close every single Finder window any more because of this, I have a couple hanging around and remember the shortcut to Go To Location.
[quote]
[b]3.[/b] This is what I find most disorientating. The equivalent to Windows' menu bar is always at the top, at all times, no matter where your window is, and what size it is, and whether there's some other window visible elsewhere on the screen at the same time. Do you find this to be better or worse than Windows' workflow? Why?
[/quote]
I prefer it to Windows' menu bar. You can fling your mouse at the top far more easily than precisely position.
[quote]
[b]4.[/b] Do you prefer Photoshop's window layout on Windows or on Mac OS X? Elaborate if you'd like.
[/quote]
OS X. I always hated MDI windows.
[quote]
[b]5.[/b] Do you find the need for Wine (MacPorts or Darwine), Parallels, VMware and/or VirtualBox? What for?
[b]6.[/b] Windows converts: Do you miss Windows and/or its applications?[/quote]
I don't have much of a use for them since I really only boot into Windows for gaming.
I agree with all the stuff said above, although I prefer the 7 dock to the OS X dock. The finder thing annoys me too, but I've just learnt to do Command N. Other than that I prefer to use OS X to Windows. I only use Windows to play L4D now, which as everyone else has commented on, could become a non issue soon.
[QUOTE=a2h;20605997]First off, if you're a rabid Mac OS X fanboy, your services are not required here.
As someone who has quite an interest in UI/web design, naturally, Apple's products highly interest me. As a result of that, and also as a result of looking into applications made for Mac OS X, like Things and Coda, over time, I've grown more and more interest in Mac OS X, which has been especially compounded by the recent confirmation that Valve was/is porting Steam and their games to Mac OS X, one of the primary factors that were holding me back from taking the jump to Mac OS X.
So what else is holding me back?
Since I've been a Windows user for practically all my life, it's a given that I would be heavily used to it. Since I'm a power user, at that, I also am used to the multitudes of keyboard shortcuts and whatnot.
I've had a look into Mac OS X's workflow style countless times. It feels incredibly welcoming with its design, but it's also incredibly alienating with its different keyboard layout and positioning of screen elements.
I've done my own research and have tried Mac OS X in a VM, but I still have questions that I would like answered by Mac OS X users. Here are those that I can think of right now:
[b]1.[/b] Have you used Windows 7 and used the superbar in its default form extensively, or at least enough to form a general opinion on it compared to the Dock? If so, which do you prefer? Why?
[i]I've used Windows 7 since the first leaked betas. I prefer the Dock, but other than Stacks, there's not so much between them. Microsoft even said at one point that the new superbar was inspired by Apple, I believe. Stacks is super useful, though.[/i]
[b]2.[/b] In Windows 7, I have an icon on my taskbar to show Explorer. In my testing of Mac OS X, to open a Finder window, I need to click the Finder icon, then click File -> "New Finder window...". This seems somewhat counterproductive. Surely there is a better way?
[i]Personally this has never really bothered me, Command-N opens a new Finder window and that's pretty much second nature for me now.[/i]
[b]3.[/b] This is what I find most disorientating. The equivalent to Windows' menu bar is always at the top, at all times, no matter where your window is, and what size it is, and whether there's some other window visible elsewhere on the screen at the same time. Do you find this to be better or worse than Windows' workflow? Why?
[i]This actually makes a lot of sense. If a window is in the background, why does it need to have it's menu bar there? You need to click the window to use it, so its' not like it's going to save you time. It's just a better organised way of doing things to have it at the top all the time. I also find that the applications seemed designed so you need to use it less often than in a Windows app.[/i]
[b]4.[/b] Do you prefer Photoshop's window layout on Windows or on Mac OS X? Elaborate if you'd like.
[i]I'm not a huge Photoshop user, so I can't see any difference? I know you get floating windows in Mac OS by default, but you can change this via a setting and get the Windows-style behaviour back.[/i]
[b]5.[/b] Do you find the need for Wine (MacPorts or Darwine), Parallels, VMware and/or VirtualBox? What for?
[i]Yeah, I need to use VS2008, which runs great under VMWare Fusion. I also use Crossover for CS:S and TF2 and Steam in general (though there's a Mac version coming soon and I'm sure you know).[/i]
[b]6.[/b] Windows converts: Do you miss Windows and/or its applications?
[i]I'm a long time Windows user who just started to use MacOS as my main OS around a month ago, and other than VS2008, no not really.[/i]
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Added my responses in italics for you.
Well, the press release of Steam for Mac is now making Mac OS X sound more and more attractive.
Hexxeh/other people who use Wine/Crossover/Parallels/VMware/etc - what's the performance like for running Windows applications you depend on? Especially more heavy applications like Visual Studio.
in Wine/Crossover/Parallels/VMware/etc some programs will run fine but resource demanding programs will suffer and be almost unusable at times. What programs are you thinking of using Wine/Crossover/Parallels/VMware/etc for?
[QUOTE=Makol;20643964]in Wine/Crossover/Parallels/VMware/etc some programs will run fine but resource demanding programs will suffer and be almost unusable at times. What programs are you thinking of using Wine/Crossover/Parallels/VMware/etc for?[/QUOTE]
Right now, I can think of Office (yes I know there's a native version), Visual Studio, Zune Desktop, Paint.NET (I use it alongside Photoshop), KeePass
you should be fine, but I'm not too sure how Photoshop will run in an emulator/virtual box environment
If I do end up using Mac OS X I would intend on using Photoshop natively
oh ok, then you're fine from what I can see.
.net apps have some trouble working out of the box.
[QUOTE=a2h;20644011]Right now, I can think of Office (yes I know there's a native version), Visual Studio, Zune Desktop, Paint.NET (I use it alongside Photoshop), KeePass[/QUOTE]
Office - iWork
Keepass - Use mac's inbuilt software, its called keychain
Windows user here, but I know enough about both to form an opinion.
[b]1.[/b] Honestly I prefer the remaining ability of the superbar to covert into an old school taskbar. I just like it much more when each program has its own "tab" on the taskbar. Plus the ability to get the larger icons and the very helpful descriptive text for each program increases usability lots. Whatever the OSX dock lacks, however, is amply made up for by the awesome win that is Exposé.
[b]2.[/b] I think you need to check your settings, the default behaviour is to open a new window in the home folder. Unless a window is already open, in which case it will switch to the open window. So you have to click and hold to bring up a menu to open a new window, or right click (ctrl+click for single button mice). Honestly this behaviour is confusing and unintuitive.
[b]3.[/b] I think it is worse, it is never immediately obvious which window the menu bar belongs to. And it is a drop down menu. Held to be the worst part of the modern desktop "WIMP" system. And I thoroughly agree. Organisation in these is dodgy at best, it is never clear where the option you want is. Labels are often confusing and it is questionable what a given option does. Furthermore it takes time to select an option due to it's small size, and there may be several levels of nesting of these confusing options. Overall a complete waste of time. Windows however is slowly but surely moving to ribbons and other preferably intuitive and discoverable replacements.
[b]4.[/b] Never really used Photoshop actually, but from what little I've used it I prefer GIMP in both situations. At least in terms of layout.
[b]5.[/b] I tried to put Steam in Wine, it never really worked right. Generally I'm not fond of emulation. Even if Steam does come to Mac, it will probably be through Cedega like all the EA games, which I will not care for.
[b]6.[/b] Never miss them, still use them. :P
[QUOTE=a2h;20605997][b]1.[/b] Have you used Windows 7 and used the superbar in its default form extensively, or at least enough to form a general opinion on it compared to the Dock? If so, which do you prefer? Why?[/quote] You will find that they are almost the same, but OSX gives you more flexibility and smaller clever features. You will find that the dock is much nicer than the superbar, but overall? Doesn't really matter.
[quote][b]2.[/b] In Windows 7, I have an icon on my taskbar to show Explorer. In my testing of Mac OS X, to open a Finder window, I need to click the Finder icon, then click File -> "New Finder window...". This seems somewhat counterproductive. Surely there is a better way?[/quote] You can just click on the finder icon in the dock. That brings up a new finder window. You can also double click your Hard-Drive or Command-N.
[quote][b]3.[/b] This is what I find most disorientating. The equivalent to Windows' menu bar is always at the top, at all times, no matter where your window is, and what size it is, and whether there's some other window visible elsewhere on the screen at the same time. Do you find this to be better or worse than Windows' workflow? Why?[/quote] I find that the Mac bar is more comfortable to me, but of course I used Ubuntu, so that is just my opinion. It won't take much getting use to, and it shouldn't be a deal-breaker.
[quote][b]4.[/b] Do you prefer Photoshop's window layout on Windows or on Mac OS X? Elaborate if you'd like.[/quote] Mac... 100% Mac... Instead of having multiple windows inside a larger window, there is only 1 window per image you are working with. And the tools and everything seamlessly disappear when you click away.
[quote][b]5.[/b] Do you find the need for Wine (MacPorts or Darwine), Parallels, VMware and/or VirtualBox? What for?[/quote] I personally use CrossOver to play my steam games. Though all my games run on Source, so I plan to get rid of it when the Mac versions come out.
[quote][b]6.[/b] Windows converts: Do you miss Windows and/or its applications?[/quote] I don't miss any windows applications, because I can use all of the ones I need on the Mac. Though if I had to choose something that I miss? I would say that it did take some getting use to for actually closing the application rather than just closing the window. It also takes some getting use to from switching from ctrl to command, but otherwise it was a pretty easy switch.
Overall, if you use applications that have a native mac version, you will notice a HUGE increase in performance and flexibility. If you are using an application that is through Wine, Cider, or other 'Wrapper', then you will probably find it a bit frustrating.
EDIT: I saw what applications you use:
Photoshop: Works better on Mac than Windows.
Office: Also surprisingly works better on Mac than Windows.
Visual Studio: Sorry, you are either going to have to run this through an emulator, or get a new compiler. Xcode is free.
Zune Desktop: Run it through an emulator.
Paint.NET: I don't see why you use this when you have Photoshop, but I can't say much since I don't really use it.
KeePass: There is a built-in OSX utility called KeyChain. It takes some getting use to, but it virtually does everything KeePass does...
As an addendum, what I [i]do[/i] miss is Exposé and Quick Look. Damn those are awesome. I click the space bar over and over but in vain. It isn't there. :(
[QUOTE=a2h;20644011]Right now, I can think of Office (yes I know there's a native version), Visual Studio, Zune Desktop, Paint.NET (I use it alongside Photoshop), KeePass[/QUOTE]
If you decide to get a Mac, please try [url=http://www.apple.com/iwork/download-trial/]this[/url] before Office.
[QUOTE=BmB;20644692]
[b]3.[/b] I think it is worse, it is never immediately obvious which window the menu bar belongs to. And it is a drop down menu. Held to be the worst part of the modern desktop "WIMP" system. And I thoroughly agree. Organisation in these is dodgy at best, it is never clear where the option you want is. Labels are often confusing and it is questionable what a given option does. Furthermore it takes time to select an option due to it's small size, and there may be several levels of nesting of these confusing options. Overall a complete waste of time. Windows however is slowly but surely moving to ribbons and other preferably intuitive and discoverable replacements.[/QUOTE]
Help->Search (bound to something, I suppose) = ohmagawd, I can search menu bar items.
I don't consider the ribbon more discoverable, though, it's unlikely that given the amount of imagery one has to generate (although the Apple HIG doesn't say nothing against using cells in menubars) ribbons are going to be the way forward for everyone.
[QUOTE=BmB;20661335]As an addendum, what I [i]do[/i] miss is Exposé and Quick Look. Damn those are awesome. I click the space bar over and over but in vain. It isn't there. :([/QUOTE]
I had an Exposé program for PC. I'll try and find it
[QUOTE=BmB;20644692]Even if Steam does come to Mac, it will probably be through Cedega like all the EA games, which I will not care for.[/QUOTE]
Valve have stated that they experimented with compatibility layers but instead opted for a native port.
[QUOTE=Ibutsu;20664681]If you decide to get a Mac, please try [url=http://www.apple.com/iwork/download-trial/]this[/url] before Office.[/QUOTE]
Yes. iWork feels much better to me than Office, especially the pre-2007 Windows versions (Office 2007 and the Mac versions are alright). You'll probably use it if you can.
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