• Rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel's south
    30 replies, posted
[URL]http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/19/us-palestinians-israel-idUSKCN0RJ04320150919[/URL] [QUOTE]Israel carried out air strikes in the Gaza Strip on Saturday after Palestinian militants there fired rockets into southern Israel. The early morning air strikes targeted two training camps belonging to the Islamist group Hamas, causing no injuries, officials and witnesses said. Gaza militants fired at least two rockets into Israel late on Friday, Israeli military said. One struck the border town of Sderot, damaging a bus but causing no injuries. A second was shot down by a missile defense system, the military said. A Palestinian group that supports the Islamic State claimed responsibility for one of the rockets fired at Israel. No-one claimed responsibility for the second rocket attack. [/QUOTE] About 30 minutes ago there were more rocket detections around Gaza, so the situation may be involving. This may or may not be related to the riots in east Jerusalem, that are also going strong.
It's that season again?
[QUOTE=Sableye;48719831]It's that season again?[/QUOTE] It's always that season.
If these militant forces keep firing rockets, all it will accomplish is causing Israel to go and occupy Gaza and East Jerusalem. Palestine may not exist in twenty years if they keep this up.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48721200]If these militant forces keep firing rockets, all it will accomplish is causing Israel to go and occupy Gaza and East Jerusalem. Palestine may not exist in twenty years if they keep this up.[/QUOTE] Well, Israel is currently going all EU4 and removing their culture to get rid of the unrest in the west bank.
[QUOTE=freaka;48721306]Well, Israel is currently going all EU4 and removing their culture to get rid of the unrest in the west bank.[/QUOTE] epic meme that references an abstraction of genocide [highlight](User was banned for this post ("why reply" - Orkel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48721200]If these militant forces keep firing rockets, all it will accomplish is causing Israel to go and occupy Gaza and East Jerusalem. Palestine may not exist in twenty years if they keep this up.[/QUOTE] no, israel will respond with their fire, then hamas's space program will go into overdrive, then israel will send troops in or double down on their airstrikes, and then hamas will run out of rockets, israel will go back to doing what they were doing, and in 6 months the whole thing will kick off again
why does anyone in palestine EVER launch rockets into Israel? like seriously what's the thought process behind that, I've always wondered they're almost never effective and there's almost always retaliation, is it just to kick the hornet's nest and act like victims later or??
[QUOTE=TG2;48721953]epic meme that references an abstraction of genocide[/QUOTE] Lol what a joke. The Israelis must all have extra chromosomes if they're conducting this "genocide" so poorly.
[QUOTE=cccritical;48722173]why does anyone in palestine EVER launch rockets into Israel? like seriously what's the thought process behind that, I've always wondered they're almost never effective and there's almost always retaliation, is it just to kick the hornet's nest and act like victims later or??[/QUOTE] the better question is do the people of palistine ever launch the rockets, and the people launching the rockets are usually foreign fighters, and hamas itself is foreign sponsored (allegidly by many wealthy people inwestern allied nations too)
[QUOTE=TG2;48721953]epic meme that references an abstraction of genocide[/QUOTE] Yes, and that's because the reference is to a video game that depicts historically accurate displays of medieval genocide. Would it also be wrong for me to describe an unfair court process as Kafkaesque because the seminal book I am referring to called 'The Trial' is a fictional story that depicts the process of an unfair court process? Would it be also wrong for me to describe a totalitarian state as being "like 1984" because the book written by George Orwell is a fictional story that depicts a totalitarian state?
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48721200]If these militant forces keep firing rockets, all it will accomplish is causing Israel to go and occupy Gaza and East Jerusalem. Palestine may not exist in twenty years if they keep this up.[/QUOTE] Oh lawd, they're not going to occupy Gaza again. But it seems like they should when these rockets keep getting fired.
[QUOTE=Sableye;48722240]the better question is do the people of palistine ever launch the rockets, and the people launching the rockets are usually foreign fighters, and hamas itself is foreign sponsored (allegidly by many wealthy people inwestern allied nations too)[/QUOTE] I'm even more confused still, why? please don't tell me you think it's all an israeli backed conspiracy
[QUOTE=cccritical;48722263]I'm even more confused still, why? please don't tell me you think it's all an israeli backed conspiracy[/QUOTE] I mean, the Palestinian situation is taken advantage of by other Arabs so that the Palestinians will be in a constant state of Jihad against Israel. Iran funds (or funded, its not very clear) Hamas so that they will attack Israel.
[QUOTE=cccritical;48722173]why does anyone in palestine EVER launch rockets into Israel? like seriously what's the thought process behind that, I've always wondered they're almost never effective and there's almost always retaliation, is it just to kick the hornet's nest and act like victims later or??[/QUOTE] Can't secure outside funding if you're not showing you're using the funding you already have.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;48722646][url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Gaza]Except it wasn't Israel who made them lose their culture and values[/url][/QUOTE] Gaza is occupied by religious zealots!
[QUOTE=cccritical;48722263]I'm even more confused still, why? please don't tell me you think it's all an israeli backed conspiracy[/QUOTE] Couple of reasons, I think: 1. There Palestinians are currently rioting and clashing with the police in East Jerusalem. Hamas can't afford to appear like it's sitting on the sidelines while other Palestinians are fighting. 2. Gaza is still under siege. The reunification with the Palestinian Authority is still not happening, Egypt has cut Gaza off to the point of flooding smuggling tunnels and very little of the promised aid money for rebuilding after the war has actually been delivered. Hamas is desperate. Keep in mind that the group that took responsibility for the first rocket was affiliated with ISIS, opponents of Hamas. However that the rockets keep happening and no more claims of responsibility suggests either Hamas is involved or otherwise turning a blind eye and allowing it to happen.
[QUOTE=cccritical;48722263]I'm even more confused still, why? please don't tell me you think it's all an israeli backed conspiracy[/QUOTE] He's not being honest with that answer about foreign forces. Hamas was voted in by the people of Gaza, and Hamas, or at least the Hassan Brigades (the military wing of Hamas) generally claims responsibility for the rocket launches. I have no doubt that foreign money goes into these launches, but that's a far different thing from saying that these launches are being done by foreign forces.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48723278]He's not being honest with that answer about foreign forces. Hamas was voted in by the people of Gaza, and Hamas, or at least the Hassan Brigades (the military wing of Hamas) generally claims responsibility for the rocket launches. I have no doubt that foreign money goes into these launches, but that's a far different thing from saying that these launches are being done by foreign forces.[/QUOTE] A few minor corrections: The group that claimed responsibility for the first rocket launch was the Omar Brigades, a Salafist group that is affiliated with Daesh and is opposed to Hamas. Also, Hamas may have won the elections to the Palestinian parliament, but it has taken control of the Gaza strip in a violent military coup. Finally, when Hamas doesn't want to deal with the implications of firing at Israel it often allows other factions to do the shooting. They have a very good control over the strip as proven by the fact they were able to completely prevent rocket fire into Israel since the last war. When there's more than the stray rocket flying it's usually with their silent approval.
[QUOTE=cccritical;48722173]why does anyone in palestine EVER launch rockets into Israel? like seriously what's the thought process behind that, I've always wondered they're almost never effective and there's almost always retaliation, is it just to kick the hornet's nest and act like victims later or??[/QUOTE] Well, acting like the victims has so far proven to be very effective.
It's fairly clear Hamas doesn't care about its own people so long as it can secure external funding and strike at Israel any way it can. As much as I think Israel is going overboard in retaliatory actions when they know damn well it only ever affects the civilian population Hamas is as much a problem as they are.
Hamas launches the rockets with the intent of killing Israelis, but it's the Palestinian people who suffer as a result of these attacks. As long as Hamas aggression continues, Palestinians will continue to die. As long as other countries response to the Gaza conflict is "Palestinians are people too!" Trying to play the moral high ground while otherwise ignoring the root issues, Israel will pursue ever more extreme methods of defending itself from the growing threat it's neighbors present until either Israel enacts a true atrocity, or suffers from one. Ignoring Hamas is not a solution and the Israelis will not be able to secure their borders forever. I don't know what the proper solution to this conflict is, but I know the longer it's allowed to fester, the worse the resolution will be.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;48725618]Hamas launches the rockets with the intent of killing Israelis, but it's the Palestinian people who suffer as a result of these attacks. As long as Hamas aggression continues, Palestinians will continue to die.[/QUOTE] They sure as hell would die less if Israel didn't target hospitals and schools.
[QUOTE=cccritical;48722263]I'm even more confused still, why? please don't tell me you think it's all an israeli backed conspiracy[/QUOTE] The whole thing is perpetuated by Arabs a thousand miles away who cut checks and send fighters and rocket motors to Gaza all for some belief that Jerusalem and all of Israel belongs to the arabs, until this lifeline stops, Israel will only get more right wing and any meaningful progress will become inpossible [editline]20th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;48725634]They sure as hell would die less if Israel didn't target hospitals and schools.[/QUOTE] Hamas launches rockets from outside residential complexes, the roofs of hospitals, and from the playgrounds of schools.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48725634]They sure as hell would die less if Israel didn't target hospitals and schools.[/QUOTE] And Israel wouldn't target these buildings if they weren't being used to house weapons being launched over the Israel border. If Israel wanted to kill Palestinians for the fuck of it they wouldn't drop pamphlets warning of their operations hours in advance. No other country would be expected to ignore these attacks, why should Israel?
[QUOTE=soulharvester;48725699]And Israel wouldn't target these buildings if they weren't being used to house weapons being launched over the Israel border. If Israel wanted to kill Palestinians for the fuck of it they wouldn't drop pamphlets warning of their operations hours in advance. No other country would be expected to ignore these attacks, why should Israel?[/QUOTE] ya its probably the most morally ambiguous conflict out there, on the one side you have the disproportionate response by israel, i mean they drop guided munitions and use artillery against what is essentially pipe-bomb rockets, but on the other hand they are being attacked by munitions launched from an enemy force, and they have to prevent these munitions from hurting anyone
The real threat in letting this issue play out is that eventually they'll use something more advanced than those rockets. What happens when they get real artillery that can't be countered by iron dome? I can't imagine Israel continuing to be as relatively passive as it has been when they start taking significant civilian casualties.
[QUOTE=Sableye;48725726]ya its probably the most morally ambiguous conflict out there, on the one side you have the disproportionate response by israel, i mean they drop guided munitions and use artillery against what is essentially pipe-bomb rockets, but on the other hand they are being attacked by munitions launched from an enemy force, and they have to prevent these munitions from hurting anyone[/QUOTE] For the thousandth time, Katyoshas are not pipe bombs, Fajrs are not pipe bombs and Qassams are not fucking pipe bombs. They're [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_arsenal"]military grade weapons[/URL].
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48725634]They sure as hell would die less if Israel didn't target hospitals and schools.[/QUOTE] You know, for a while I though the "They hide ammunition in schools" line was probably a somewhat exaggerated claim, but if you look up there is confirmed evidence they indeed purposely do this. They constantly fire the rockets right next to densely populated areas. By hotels or by buildings being used as refuge from Israeli bombs by civilians.
It bothers me that so many people still don't realize that middle eastern insurgency tactics are specifically designed to exploit the west's sense of morality as much as possible. These insurgents are not wearing "I'm a terrorist" uniforms. Unless otherwise confirmed, you can damn well bet lots of insurgent casualties are claimed as civilian casualties. They operate in well populated zones because it allows them to hide in plain site and strike from amongst civilians. Often the only thing that distinguishes an insurgent from a civilian is a smoking gun. It doesn't help that many insurgents are very young, or sometimes women, which we are generally uncomfortable thinking of as actual threatening combatants, but the truth of the matter is that anyone who can hold a gun or trigger C4 can kill a soldier. This is a major reason why we have taken a "no boots on the ground" approach recently, and have started training natives to take up the fighting themselves, it frees us of the moral dilemma of "kill or be killed" when the combatant we're facing doesn't fit our moral capability to fight them.
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