Democratic Israel valiantly defies Turkey. Refuses to apologize for Gaza flotilla raid that stopped - Polidicks

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/18/israel-refuses-apologise-gaza-raid]News from the front[/url] [release][b]Israel will stick to its refusal to apologise to Turkey for killing nine of its citizens on a Gaza-bound ship[/b], officials have said, a position Ankara said would sink any prospects for reconciliation. The decision, which officials said the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, conveyed to the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, in a telephone call, was made days before the anticipated publication of the findings of a UN inquiry into the seizure of the Mavi Marmara last year. The so-called Palmer report was repeatedly delayed to allow for Israeli-Turkish rapprochement talks amid concern in Washington at the rift between two countries that had been strategic partners in an increasingly stormy Middle East. [b]"We're firm on not apologising,"[/b] the Israeli official said in comments later confirmed by the foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, in an interview with an Israeli television network, in which he called it [b]"a wise and correct decision".[/b] Pointing at uprisings in the Arab world since January which Israel has been watching warily, Lieberman added that any "message of weakness today would be the most dangerous from Israel's standpoint". The Turkish prime minister, Tayyip Erdogan, asked by reporters about Israel's comments, replied that [b]"as long as Israel does not apologise, does not pay compensation and does not lift the embargo on Palestine, it is not possible for Turkey-Israeli ties to improve".[/b] The Turkish foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, said in separate comments that [b]"Israel is facing a choice: deeper relations with Turkey or open a gap with the Turkish state that will not be overcome very easily".[/b] The Mavi Marmara was part of an activist flotilla bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza when it was boarded by Israeli marines on the Mediterranean high seas on 31 May 2010. The marines shot dead nine Turks, including a dual US citizen, during fierce deck brawls. Netanyahu had voiced regret over the killings, and the defence minister Ehud Barak, a centrist in his conservative coalition government, has since stirred debate inside the cabinet by proposing Israel offer a diluted apology in hope of restoring ties with what was once a rare Muslim ally of the Jewish state. Barak had also thought such a step would help indemnify Israel's navy personnel against lawsuits abroad. Israeli officials, citing advance copies of the report by a UN panel headed by the former New Zealand prime minister Geoffrey Palmer, have said the document would vindicate Israel's blockade on the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip. Israel calls its Gaza blockade a precaution against arms reaching Hamas and other Palestinian guerrillas by sea. Palestinians and their supporters describe the blockade as illegal collective punishment. Lieberman said the report, which he said would be published on 23 August, was "very positive toward Israel". In his remarks at a news conference in Istanbul, Davutoglu suggested Turkey would not accept such an outcome. "If the Palmer report does not contain an apology, both sides and the United States know what we will do," he said. In Washington, the state department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland confirmed that Netanyahu and Clinton had spoken but denied that the US had asked Israel for any apology. "That report is inaccurate," she said. Kurt Hoyer, spokesman for the US embassy in Tel Aviv, said Washington wanted Israel and Turkey "to look for opportunities to get past the current strains in their bilateral relations".[/release] [img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2011/8/18/1313657855132/Binyamin-Netanyahu-007.jpg[/img] Mah hero.

A friend of mine is from Turkey. He said the Turks were fine with Israel until that happened. He says some people in Turkey want to go to WAR with Israel.

Stay Classy

IDF, kicking ass (read: getting butthurt) and waiting for the messiah since 1948

What the fuck? "Hey, we totally shot nine [B]unarmed[/B] Turkish civilians, but hey, fuck it, we're the victims here! Why should we apologize?" Israel, learn to play nice with the rest of the world. They wonder why so many people dislike them and then they pull shit like this. I suppose they've never heard the saying that "you attract more flies with honey than vinegar".

[QUOTE=ewitwins;31807990]What the fuck? "Hey, we totally shot nine [B]unarmed[/B] Turkish civilians, but hey, fuck it, we're the victims here! Why should we apologize?" Israel, learn to play nice with the rest of the world. They wonder why so many people dislike them and then they pull shit like this. I suppose they've never heard the saying that "you attract more flies with honey than vinegar".[/QUOTE] You left out the part were they were beating the soldiers - I wouldn't bold the unarmed bit and act like you just won the argument and saved the Palestinians from oppression. Thanks for the dumbs, I guess you can't represent both views fairly, seriously these Israeli threads are getting more bigoted than the actual Israeli Government.

And so Israel makes another enemy.

Israel was inforcing a blockaid. If the people on the boat didn't want to get raided, they should have followed the law. After that they even attacked the soldiers.

Hey let's ship stuff to a terrorist organisation that inflict harm to another country and themselves!

[QUOTE=ewitwins;31807990]What the fuck? "Hey, we totally shot nine [B]unarmed[/B] Turkish civilians, but hey, fuck it, we're the victims here! Why should we apologize?" Israel, learn to play nice with the rest of the world. They wonder why so many people dislike them and then they pull shit like this. I suppose they've never heard the saying that "you attract more flies with honey than vinegar".[/QUOTE] Obama walked out of talks with Netanyahu in the White House last year because he refused to stop with the settlements being built on Palestinian territory bullshit. Come to think of it, he also called Cameron an anti-Semite around the same time. :v: What a spoiled-rotten country.

[QUOTE=Derubermensch;31807666]A friend of mine is from Turkey. He said the Turks were fine with Israel until that happened. He says some people in Turkey want to go to WAR with Israel.[/QUOTE] Most people started hating them after their invasion, it just became mainstream after that. [QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;31808741]Hey let's ship stuff to a terrorist organisation that inflict harm to another country and themselves![/QUOTE] They where shipped to poor people, they had food and medical suplies on that ship, what the fuck are you talking about ? It's not like they shipped weapons and bombs.

[QUOTE='[sluggo];31808654']After that they even attacked the soldiers.[/QUOTE] This is the same sort of logic from the other "IDF soldiers gun down people who don't like them" thread. It's like saying "well yeah they flew over in a helicopter and dropped off commandos, but one of the protesters tried to run at him, they had no choice but to shoot them!"

[QUOTE='[sluggo];31808654']Israel was inforcing a blockaid. If the people on the boat didn't want to get raided, they should have followed the law. After that they even attacked the soldiers.[/QUOTE] An [b]illegal [/b]blockade. :eng101:

[QUOTE=Chilean;31808887]An [b]illegal [/b]blockade. :eng101:[/QUOTE] Yes, it was declared illegal by the UN.

There is no [B]good[/B] side in what happened, if the flotilla wanted to get aid to Gaza, they should have used Israeli procedures, while Israel's actions were loosely justified, the way they carried it out was entirely inappropriate

[QUOTE=Chilean;31808887]An [b]illegal [/b]blockade. :eng101:[/QUOTE] woha the whole 15 mins of the Star Wars: 1 just flashed before my eyes, with the star ships and all :tinfoil:

[QUOTE=Hick2;31809158]There is no [B]good[/B] side in what happened, if the flotilla wanted to get aid to Gaza, they should have used Israeli procedures, while Israel's actions were loosely justified, the way they carried it out was entirely inappropriate[/QUOTE] That's better.

[QUOTE=Hick2;31809158]There is no [B]good[/B] side in what happened, if the flotilla wanted to get aid to Gaza, they should have used Israeli procedures, while Israel's actions were loosely justified, the way they carried it out was entirely inappropriate[/QUOTE] Israeli procedures would've involved abandoning a lot of their aid supplies.

It's a shame that apologizing for killing citizens of another country is considered to be showing "weakness". I don't pretend to know the full situation of the ship boarding or the blockade(none of you should either, I doubt anyone of you really knows what happened) but still, even if what they did was warranted, they should still have a better attitude about it than refusing to apologize.

[QUOTE=Hick2;31809158]There is no [B]good[/B] side in what happened, if the flotilla wanted to get aid to Gaza, they should have used Israeli procedures, while Israel's actions were loosely justified, the way they carried it out was entirely inappropriate[/QUOTE]This makes no sense. The whole entire point of the Flotilla was to break the Israeli blockade, because if they sent the aid through official channels, anything on [URL="http://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/publications/Products060610_Eng(1).pdf"]this list[/URL] wouldn't be allowed within Gaza. (Keep in mind the items crossed out/no longer banned were banned during the Flotilla.) Look at the banned items on the list, why would you want to send aid through Israeli procedures when most of it would just be denied, this is why the Flotilla was made.

[QUOTE='[sluggo];31808654']Israel was inforcing a blockaid. If the people on the boat didn't want to get raided, they should have followed the law. After that they even attacked the soldiers.[/QUOTE] We've had three near-megathreads about this. It was illegal. The civilians were defending themselves with metal poles. They had the law on their side to defend themselves, Israel did not.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;31809302]This makes no sense. The whole entire point of the Flotilla was to break the Israeli blockade, because if they sent the aid through official channels, anything on [URL="http://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/publications/Products060610_Eng(1).pdf"]this list[/URL] wouldn't be allowed within Gaza. (Keep in mind the items crossed out/no longer banned were banned during the Flotilla.) Look at the banned items on the list, why would you want to send aid through Israeli procedures when most of it would just be denied, this is why the Flotilla was made.[/QUOTE] Some aid would've been better than dead civilians and a diplomatic stand-off.

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;31809308]We've had three near-megathreads about this. It was illegal. The civilians were defending themselves with metal poles. They had the law on their side to defend themselves, Israel did not.[/QUOTE] I mean when IDF Commandos descend on your boat armed with assault rifles, trying to take your aid supplies, you have a pretty good reason to defend yourself. [editline]18th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Hick2;31809376]Some aid would've been better than dead civilians and a diplomatic stand-off.[/QUOTE] Yeah man, just let illegal blockades continue, why ever challenge it?

[QUOTE=Hick2;31809376]Some aid would've been better than dead civilians and a diplomatic stand-off.[/QUOTE] I know, the next time you see an illegal activity let's just ignore it! It'll go away by itself!

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31809408]I mean when IDF Commandos descend on your boat [b]armed with assault rifles[/b], trying to take your aid supplies, you have a pretty good reason to defend yourself.[/quote] Oh yes definitely! Except they weren't.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;31809433]Oh yes definitely! Except they weren't.[/QUOTE] Oh, sorry, they must have been BB guns.

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;31809451]Oh, sorry, they must have been BB guns.[/QUOTE] Paints guns as I remember.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;31809457]Paints guns as I remember.[/QUOTE] Considering they killed 9 people with them, I bet they were NERF guns.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;31809457]Paints guns as I remember.[/QUOTE] They didn't have assault rifles, I was wrong on that. They had pistols, paint guns, and stun guns. [editline]18th August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MrEndangered;31809499]Considering they killed 9 people with them, I bet they were NERF guns.[/QUOTE] But yes, this happened. They shot 9 activists.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31809408] Yeah man, just let illegal blockades continue, why ever challenge it?[/QUOTE] This was a group of civilians with aid, I doubt the Israeli government were going to make an exception, The blockade is illegal, however, as long as it is in place, compliance by unofficial or unprotected organisations is sadly a necessity.