Veteran Kills Himself in Parking Lot of V.A. Hospital on Long Island After Being Denied Treatment - Polidicks

[quote]A 76-year-old veteran committed suicide on Sunday in the parking lot of the Northport Veterans Affairs Medical Center on Long Island, where he had been a patient, according to the Suffolk County Police Department. Peter A. Kaisen, of Islip, was pronounced dead after he shot himself outside Building 92, the nursing home at the medical center. The hospital is part of the Veterans Affairs medical system, the nation’s largest integrated health care organization, which has been under scrutiny since 2014, when the department confirmed that numerous patients had died awaiting treatment at a V.A. hospital in Phoenix. Officials there had tried to cover up long waiting times for 1,700 veterans seeking medical care. A study released by the Government Accountability Office in April indicated that the system had yet to fix its scheduling problems. Why Mr. Kaisen decided to end his life was not immediately known, but two people connected to the hospital who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss his death said that [b]he had been frustrated that he was unable to see an emergency-room physician for reasons related to his mental health. “He went to the E.R. and was denied service,” one of the people, who currently works at the hospital, said. “And then he went to his car and shot himself.”[/b] The worker questioned why Mr. Kaisen had not been referred to the hospital’s Building 64, its mental health center. The staff member said that while there was normally no psychologist at the ready in the E.R., one was always on call, and that the mental health building was open “24/7.” “Someone dropped the ball,” the worker said. “They should not have turned him away.” Christopher Goodman, a spokesman for the hospital, said that there “was no indication that he presented to the E.R. prior to the incident.” It is unclear if any official record was made of a visit by Mr. Kaisen. Mr. Goodman said “the employees here at Northport feel this loss deeply and extend their thoughts and prayers to all those impacted by this tragedy.” [...] The Northport hospital has been under scrutiny for mismanagement and poor care since The New York Times reported in May that it had closed all five of its operating rooms for months after sand-size black particles began falling from air ducts. [/quote] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/nyregion/veteran-kills-himself-in-parking-lot-of-va-hospital-on-long-island.html?_r=0[/url]

This country has a serious issue handling mental health. We never had a good approach to it but ignore it in some fashion. The VA has been having a hard time handling itself and its mission for quite a few years now.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;50949137]This country has a serious issue handling mental health. We never had a good approach to it but ignore it in some fashion. The VA has been having a hard time handling itself and its mission for quite a few years now.[/QUOTE] I don't think this is indicative of the wider systemic problem, what the VA has set up is pretty normal procedure for anywhere. if there is no record of him visiting the ER he likely never saw a Doctor and was turned away by some ass retarded ER clerk.

Yeah it looks like in this case just one person made a really bad decision to turn him away. On the other hand [QUOTE] The Northport hospital has been under scrutiny for mismanagement and poor care since The New York Times reported in May that it had closed all five of its operating rooms for months after sand-size black particles began falling from air ducts.[/QUOTE] ew

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50949154]I don't think this is indicative of the wider systemic problem, what the VA has set up is pretty normal procedure for anywhere. if there is no record of him visiting the ER he likely never saw a Doctor and was turned away by some ass retarded ER clerk.[/QUOTE] As from what I understood in the article there is no indication that he did, or did not go to the ER. A lot of that is left up to speculation. However they did state, [quote]The staff member said that while there was normally no psychologist at the ready in the E.R., one was always on call, and that the mental health building was open “24/7.”[/quote] This is clear indication (for me atleast) that they're not really handling mental health seriously.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;50949186]As from what I understood in the article there is no indication that he did, or did not go to the ER. A lot of that is left up to speculation. However they did state, [b]This is clear indication (for me atleast) that they're not really handling mental health seriously.[/b][/QUOTE] I guarantee you that if you went to your local ER that this would be the case. Having a Psychologist wait in an ER 24/7 on the off chance that a patient would present for mental health issues is a waste of money and everyone's time. That is why most Hospitals will have on call staff who will respond to those types of scenarios. There's never going to be enough demand to keep a Doctorate level Psychologist or Physician waiting all night in an ER that it would pay off. Also I would like to mention that most ER doctors are capable of performing limited safety assessments to determine if someone should be admitted or not, your Mental health provider is only really called in for questionable scenarios or severe mental illness. [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] as a source I'm a mental health guy that works at a Hospital and often deals with these scenarios.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50949225]I guarantee you that if you went to your local ER that this would be the case. Having a Psychologist wait in an ER 24/7 on the off chance that a patient would present for mental health issues is a waste of money and everyone's time. That is why most Hospitals will have on call staff who will respond to those types of scenarios. There's never going to be enough demand to keep a Doctorate level Psychologist or Physician waiting all night in an ER that it would pay off. Also I would like to mention that most ER doctors are capable of performing limited safety assessments to determine if someone should be admitted or not, your Mental health provider is only really called in for questionable scenarios or severe mental illness. [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] as a source I'm a mental health guy that works at a Hospital and often deals with these scenarios.[/QUOTE] I bet I could go to a mental health facility with my insurance card and get a psychologist. No problem. Hell, I even got a psychologist in cook county jail of all places, on intake. [editline]25th August 2016[/editline] Speaking on behalf on previous treatment. I've been insured by an employer with decent healthcare each time and always got good results. Why the VA can't do that? Who knows, government can't handle these things correctly maybe?

You can risk your life for your country but fuck you if you want anything back ;) [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] The way some countries, not just the US, treat their veterans is disgusting.

The VA is a total mess that usually ends up with prescribing pill cocktails to their patients and sending them off assuming you don't die or kill yourself due to the absurd waiting times for medical care. Having family members in the military I saw how much of a shit show these places can be and its frustrating to say the least.

[QUOTE=Araknid;50950821]You can risk your life for your country but fuck you if you want anything back ;) [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] The way some countries, not just the US, treat their veterans is disgusting.[/QUOTE] I never understood this, I mean you have people putting their ass on the line for your country and your very way of life, so you'd THINK you'd want to treat them nice and help them out a little when they get home. But most of the time they either tell the vets to fuck off or they have to go through a lot of red tape to get their help/benefits. Shit's fucked.

when country starts to deny, forget and cease to care about own veterans and heroes then things go into hell fast ... it's similar with soldiers, if there is no will or reason to find 'survivors' or free 'captive' POWs or treat wounded ... then what reason soldiers have to fight bravely for the country (unless mercenaries for $) it's slippery slope and the speed of slide increases (I know what I talk about, in my country we jailed our WW2 heroes because Communism took over and the moral in whole country is fucked for last 50 years)

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;50949268]I bet I could go to a mental health facility with my insurance card and get a psychologist. No problem. Hell, I even got a psychologist in cook county jail of all places, on intake. [editline]25th August 2016[/editline] Speaking on behalf on previous treatment. I've been insured by an employer with decent healthcare each time and always got good results. Why the VA can't do that? Who knows, government can't handle these things correctly maybe?[/QUOTE] as an appointment yes, but this guy was clearly suicidal and needed to see anybody at that moment. i dont think this is exactly indicative of the VA though because it sounds like he just walked in and never asked the desk or anyone mental health in the US has a larger problem of just prescribing pills and doing nothing susbtantive. my relative got addicted to vallium and the first time he went to a psychiatrist that idiot went and prescribed him valium FOR HIS ANXIETY ABOUT BEING ADDICTED TO VALIUM

[QUOTE=Sableye;50950965]as an appointment yes, but this guy was clearly suicidal and needed to see anybody at that moment. i dont think this is exactly indicative of the VA though because it sounds like he just walked in and never asked the desk or anyone [/quote] There is nothing to say he did or did not. Due to a lot of health information privacy, there is nothing that can be released that this very moment that traces his last moments as he went to the hospital. We are left with a lot more speculation over what was said from witnesses such as this: [quote] “He went to the E.R. and was denied service,” one of the people, who currently works at the hospital, said. “And then he went to his car and shot himself.”[/quote] From an official on the matter; [quote]Christopher Goodman, a spokesman for the hospital, said that there “was no indication that he presented to the E.R. prior to the incident.” [/quote] If anything is to make out of this, they came in and was rejected for some reason. When these types of things require immediate attention. Obviously this person was on their final steps and sought help only to get denied. [QUOTE=Sableye;50950965] mental health in the US has a larger problem of just prescribing pills and doing nothing susbtantive. my relative got addicted to vallium and the first time he went to a psychiatrist that idiot went and prescribed him valium FOR HIS ANXIETY ABOUT BEING ADDICTED TO VALIUM[/QUOTE] Psychiatrists only throw pills at something. Thats there way of "fixing" a problem.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;50951089]Psychiatrists only throw pills at something. Thats there way of "fixing" a problem.[/QUOTE] No that's called money making if you're prescribing someone addicted the same thing. There's a lot of alternatives pill wise and treatment wise.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;50951089]There is nothing to say he did or did not. Due to a lot of health information privacy, there is nothing that can be released that this very moment that traces his last moments as he went to the hospital. We are left with a lot more speculation over what was said from witnesses such as this: From an official on the matter; If anything is to make out of this, they came in and was rejected for some reason. When these types of things require immediate attention. Obviously this person was on their final steps and sought help only to get denied. [b]Psychiatrists only throw pills at something. Thats there way of "fixing" a problem.[/b][/QUOTE] Oh man, if only you knew the nature of psychiatric illness would you realize what you just said makes you sound very ignorant. Psychiatric illnesses can be treated very effectively with psychotropic medications since many psychiatric illnesses and their symptoms are results of brain development and chemical changes. Psychotropic medications can be used to great effect when treating issues such as chronic depression for example. They make the depressed person's symptoms more manageable to a point where they can actually focus on treatment and getting better through psychotherapy. This whole aversion that people have to using psych meds is actually really damaging and counterproductive to the treatment of mental illness, especially coming from someone who would complain about the state of the mental health care system in america.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;50951089] Psychiatrists only throw pills at something. Thats there way of "fixing" a problem.[/QUOTE] Uh, no. Literally if you spent more than 5 seconds dealing with mental health or psychiatry you would see how stupid of a statement that is

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50951427]Oh man, if only you knew the nature of psychiatric illness would you realize what you just said makes you sound very ignorant. Psychiatric illnesses can be treated very effectively with psychotropic medications since many psychiatric illnesses and their symptoms are results of brain development and chemical changes. Psychotropic medications can be used to great effect when treating issues such as chronic depression for example. They make the depressed person's symptoms more manageable to a point where they can actually focus on treatment and getting better through psychotherapy. This whole aversion that people have to using psych meds is actually really damaging and counterproductive to the treatment of mental illness, especially coming from someone who would complain about the state of the mental health care system in america.[/QUOTE] I have tried a battery of anti depressants. They all made me feel worse, induced a variety of physical symptoms and even exacerbated a suicide attempt. From my personal experience which is anecdotal obviously, there's a reason people avoid them.

My "favorite" part about all of this is that our politicians say they [I]love[/I] the veterans, but then they never do anything to help them out. Same goes for when they talk about police and firefighters, they just use their sacrifices to get elected. Pretty abhorrent if you ask me.

Being a long island resident, i can confirm that a lot of hospitals out here need serious work in their employee and management departments. If any of you are ever out here or have family out here, just pray they don't go to mather, and instead go to stony brook or ny presbyterian.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50951437]Uh, no. Literally if you spent more than 5 seconds dealing with mental health or psychiatry you would see how stupid of a statement that is[/QUOTE] Well, to be fair, one of the primary roles of psychiatrists is to find the appropriate prescription. It's typically Psychologists/Therapists that deal with the non-medical side of it. Obviously Psychiatrists might take some Behavioral action, but that's typically the job of the psychologist Which is why statements like 'psychiatrists only throw pills at the problem' is kind of stupid. That's their job. If you're not going to a psychologist in tandem obviously you're going to have a limited amount of behavioral and therapeutic aid

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50951942]I have tried a battery of anti depressants. They all made me feel worse, induced a variety of physical symptoms and even exacerbated a suicide attempt. From my personal experience which is anecdotal obviously, there's a reason people avoid them.[/QUOTE] How long did you try these? A lot of antidepressants have a habit of making you feel worse the first few weeks. After about a month the effect starts kicking in properly.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50951437]Uh, no. Literally if you spent more than 5 seconds dealing with mental health or psychiatry you would see how stupid of a statement that is[/QUOTE] there's some really good psychiatrists and some really bad ones, the guy i mentioned is pretty bad he just mainly gives out pills. if he wasn't the only guy in our network around here we wouldn't use him and like i said, he gave a relative who wound up in the hospital because of valium, a prescription to valium which has not helped anything

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50949154] if there is no record of him visiting the ER he likely never saw a Doctor and was turned away by some ass retarded ER clerk.[/QUOTE] The VA has been under scrutiny the past couple of years because they lie on tons of paperwork to make it look like they're more active than they really are.