Assad regime 'approaching collapse' as US says dozens of sarin bombs prepared and ready for use - Polidicks

[url]http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/13/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html?c=middleeast[/url] [quote=CNN]Defeat could be near for Syria's embattled regime, NATO and Syrian ally Russia said Thursday. "I think now it's only a question of time," NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said in Brussels, Belgium, where he and Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced the deployment of two Patriot air-defense batteries to Turkey's border with Syria. The al-Assad government is "approaching collapse," Rasmussen said. "I urge the regime to stop violence, to realize what is the actual situation and initiate a process that leads to the accommodation of the legitimate aspirations of the Syrian people." Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov offered a similar view from Moscow, noting what he said were rebel reports that victory was imminent. "We need to look the facts in the eye," the state-run RIA Novosti news service quoted Bogdanov as saying. "Unfortunately, we can't exclude a victory by the opposition." His comments came as opposition groups said they had seized a military base near Damascus and amid calls by the Local Coordination Committees for rebels to push for the fall of the capital. "We all know that the battle is not going to be easy and that the regime will defend its existence by the most brutal means, as we have become accustomed to seeing," the opposition group said. "We know that the regime will spare no resources in destroying any hold it may have before its collapse, as we have witnessed in all other Syrian cities." Diplomatic efforts to help end the 21-month conflict, which opposition activists say has claimed more than 42,000 lives, have so far failed. A rebel victory would unleash a host of complications for the shattered country, including the need to quickly assemble a functioning government; to provide humanitarian assistance as winter approaches; and to address the status of the chemical weapons currently held by regime forces. The regime has shown no signs of backing down. On Thursday, the LCC reported that 138 people had been killed by government forces, including seven children and four women. Sixty-nine of the deaths occurred in Damascus and its suburbs, it said. Syrian state TV, citing a foreign ministry official, denied Thursday Western accusations that the government has used Scud missiles against rebels inside the country, a move analysts and world leaders have described as a dangerous escalation in President Bashar al-Assad's campaign against the rebellion. A U.S. official said Syrian forces in Damascus loyal to al-Assad had fired at least four short-range Scud missiles from the capital into northern Syria, presumably at rebel groups. Rasmussen said NATO also had detected launches this week. "We can't confirm details of the missiles, but some of the information indicates they were Scud-type missiles," Rasmussen said. "The use of such indiscriminate weapons shows utter disregard for the lives of the Syrian people. It is reckless, and I strongly condemn it." The predictions of defeat for al-Assad and his forces come amid rising international recognition of the Syrian opposition. On Tuesday, President Barack Obama extended U.S. recognition to the rebel coalition. The more than 100 nations in the Friends of Syria group followed suit on Wednesday and pledged at least $110 million in humanitarian aid. Coalition Vice President George Sabra said rebels were pleased with the gestures, but had hoped the United States would go further by naming the group not just as a legitimate representative of the Syrian people but as their sole legitimate representative. Syrian officials belittled the declarations. Information Minister Omran al-Zoebi said the recognition was comparable to Syria recognizing "Liverpool Football Club as the sole representative of the British people while in fact it represented very little," Britain's Independent newspaper said. Also Thursday, Amnesty International urged rebel leaders to free a Ukrainian journalist accused of working with Syrian government officials and to respect international accords on human rights. "There are increasing reports of opposition forces carrying out horrific abuses of captured government soldiers, journalists and some other civilians," Amnesty said Thursday. "The coalition must condemn these grave abuses in the strongest possible terms and do its utmost to prevent them." The LCC called on rebels to deliver a knockout punch to the regime while protecting civilians, religious sites and the nation's cultural heritage. It also urged rebels to preserve any documents found in offices of state security services seized by rebels in preparation for possible war crimes trials. "These documents contain massive amounts of incriminating evidence against the regime and its symbols and will be required to hold the regime accountable, compensate victims and retain a historical record of decades of state behavior," the group said. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said U.S. government-trained medical workers have reached an estimated 410,000 patients in Syria, performed 22,370 surgeries and had partnered with a group -- which she would not identify for security reasons -- that has set up 20 field hospitals in the country. "I don't think any of us has a crystal ball as to exactly how this is going to go, but we do believe that the Assad regime's days are numbered," Nuland said. "The opposition in recent days and weeks has made a number of significant captures, in particular major military facility outside of Aleppo with the last Sheik Suleiman base and other important military installations." She urged Russian officials to withdraw support for the al-Assad regime.[/quote] [url]http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/14/167267519/u-s-officials-syria-has-prepared-several-dozen-chemical-bombs[/url] [quote=NPR]U.S. and allied officials say the forces of embattled Syrian President Bashar Assad have prepared several dozen bombs and shells loaded with the lethal chemical sarin. The number is a larger estimate than has previously been reported. The Syrians loaded the weapons with the chemical agents in the past several weeks, the officials say. Those preparations raise fears that the fighting against rebel forces could enter a new and more troubling phase, according to the officials, who requested anonymity. They were particularly alarmed when Assad's forces fired Scud missiles at rebel positions earlier this week, initially believing that the warheads included sarin, one of the most deadly chemical weapons, which can kill victims within minutes. Between three and eight Scuds were fired from the capital Damascus, according to Pentagon sources, toward rebel positions around the northern city of Aleppo, a distance of some 200 miles. The U.S. and its allies are preparing for ways to address the chemical weapons threat. CIA contractors are training rebels in Jordan on how to identify and safeguard chemical weapons that are located in dozens of sites around the country. [B]NATO Is Involved In Planning[/B] NATO is stepping up planning. The Czech Republic, which has expertise in chemical weapons, is taking the lead on a more robust rebel training effort, officials said. NATO is also identifying medical personnel who could be quickly dispatched to Syria to assist any casualties, officials said. And there is talk among the allies of reaching out to the Syrian population –- either through the international media or other means –- to describe the symptoms of exposure to chemical weapons. NATO also is considering airdropping medicines that could help Syrian civilians in the event of a chemical attack. The alliance already has reached out to the Syrian National Coalition, which was recognized this week by the U.S., to begin planning for disposal of the chemical weapons if Assad is removed from power. Still, a particular concern among allied officials is this scenario: Assad falls and various rebel groups begin fighting among themselves, which may make it more difficult to locate and secure the weapons. The Syrian bombs and shells loaded with chemical agents were located at one or two air bases, officials told NPR. The mixture of two precursor chemicals creates sarin. But it has a limited shelf life. "Once they have mixed them together, they're in a circumstance where it's kind of a use it or lose it," Charles Duelfer, a former U.N. weapons inspector, told NPR's All Things Considered. "That's why that indicator is quite troubling." Those weapons could still be used, particularly as rebels continue to make gains in and around Damascus. Still, there are indications, according to officials, that Iran and Hezbollah leaders have urged Assad not to use the weapons. [B]U.S. President Warns Syria[/B] And so has President Obama. "We simply cannot allow the 21st century to be darkened by the worst weapons of the 20th century," the president said recently. "If you [Assad] make the tragic mistake of using these weapons, there will be consequences and you will be held accountable." White House spokesman Jay Carney, who didn't confirm the launch of the Scuds this week, said their use would be a sign of desperation. The Scud — a tactical ballistic missile developed by the Soviet Union during the Cold War and exported widely to other countries — is not considered a very sophisticated weapon. It's inaccurate and only useful for large targets. So, officials say, the launch of the Scuds, together with the use of crude "barrel bombs" that combine explosives and nails, is a sign that Assad not only is becoming more desperate but also may be running out of conventional weapons. He is having a difficult time resupplying his weapons stocks, and rebels have overrun some of his military bases, seizing weaponry. Analysts say Syria has the largest stockpile of chemical weapons in the Middle East, an arsenal that includes tons of chemical agents along with hundreds of bombs and missiles that can be loaded with chemicals. [B]Strong Evidence Of Weapons Stockpile[/B] There's substantial evidence that Syria has chemical weapons. Besides sarin, Syria also has mustard agent, developed during World War I, which can blister the lungs and damage the skin. "First of all, Bashar al-Assad has not denied that he has chemical weapons," said Duelfer, the former U.N. inspector. "He has not, you know, agreed to the chemical weapons treaty." Syrian Foreign Ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi said in July that chemical weapons would never be used against the Syrian people, just "external aggression." Duelfer also said there have been intelligence reports going back years showing Syrian forces testing chemical weapons. "They've been testing the deployment mechanisms in ways so they're quite visible. So they've not been trying to conceal their capabilities. ... What makes them different as compared with regular explosives is you want the weapon to detonate above the ground. And then when they test, they put a grid on the ground so that they can see how the agent disperses. These types of tests are readily observable from, you know, the outside world. These things are not hidden."[/quote]

Sarin is some nasty shit I hope the rebels have some NBC systems.

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;38831472]Sarin is some nasty shit I hope the rebels have some NBC systems.[/QUOTE] I'll be more worried about population centres.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38831483]I'll be more worried about population centres.[/QUOTE] isn't the fighting concentrated in population centres anyways? also NBC systems to protect civilians as well.

[quote]Initial symptoms following exposure to sarin are a runny nose, tightness in the chest and constriction of the pupils. Soon after, the victim has difficulty breathing and experiences nausea and drooling. [b]As the victim continues to lose control of bodily functions, the victim vomits, defecates and urinates.[/b] This phase is followed by twitching and jerking. Ultimately, the victim becomes comatose and suffocates in a series of convulsive spasms.[/quote] Oh dear.

[QUOTE=FPSMango;38831540]Oh dear.[/QUOTE] That whole paragraph is really unpleasant.

I am more worried of the fall of assad then the wrong people getting their hands on the wrong weapons. Syria is already full of Islamic extremism without them walking around with chemical weapons.

Hopefully Syria doesn't turn into a shithole full of rival factions, or turn into a Islamist shithole with one majority government suppressing the minorities. But, given the state Syria is in I'm going with either of those.

Looks like they aren't going down without taking some folks with them.

[QUOTE=laserguided;38831868]Hopefully Syria doesn't turn into a shithole full of rival factions, or turn into a Islamist shithole with one majority government suppressing the minorities. But, given the state Syria is in I'm going with either of those.[/QUOTE] Probably the first then the second. This is absolutely awful and it's not going to get any better for a long, long time. If Sarin is dropped then that's seriously going to fuck everything up.

If much of the world have officially designated the rebels as the "legitimate" governors of Syria, what does that make Assad and his "regime"? Officially, speaking?

[QUOTE=spekter;38831924]Probably the first then the second. This is absolutely awful and it's not going to get any better for a long, long time. If Sarin is dropped then that's seriously going to fuck everything up.[/QUOTE] Plus WMD's. [editline]14th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38831926]If much of the world have officially designated the rebels as the "legitimate" governors of Syria, what does that make Assad and his "regime"? Officially, speaking?[/QUOTE] It means nothing more then dickwaving.

Chemical weapons/gas in our air, yuck.

[QUOTE=NinjaS;38832520]Chemical weapons/gas in our air, yuck.[/QUOTE] If you remember what happened in Buenos Aires when containers of just pesticide leaked into the air, tons of people were nauseous because of it. I can't even begin to imagine what Sarin bombs would do.

[QUOTE=laserguided;38831956] It means nothing more then dickwaving.[/QUOTE] If the rebels are legitimate and Assad is no longer legitimate, doesn't that technically mean Assad is the rebel :v:

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;38831898]Looks like they aren't going down without taking some folks with them.[/QUOTE] Makes me think of what Hitler said: [quote][i]"We shall not capitulate- no, never. We may be destroyed, but if we are, we shall drag the world down with us... a world in flames."[/i][/quote]

I just hope Assad doesn't use sarin bombs. That'd be outrageous.

Some of the rebellion forces had ties to al-Qaeda from what I've seen earlier; what if they get their hands on these chemical weapons after Assad is overthrown?

I didn't like the prospect of foreign intevention, but please quickly get GROM, DELTA, SAS, Folgore or somebody on it quickly before it becomes a mess.

[QUOTE=Angus725;38834181]Some of the rebellion forces had ties to al-Qaeda from what I've seen earlier; what if they get their hands on these chemical weapons after Assad is overthrown?[/QUOTE] Then they hold the worlds major cities at ransom.

[QUOTE=laserguided;38834251]Then they hold the worlds major cities at ransom.[/QUOTE] What are they going to ask for? Conversion? Ha. Money? Even if they did get it, what could they do with it that the governments of the world couldn't spend for twenty times over?

Sarin is so lethal in such small amounts its crazy. I mean look at the Tokyo metro terrorist attacks. Them dudes had small bags of liquid sarin per each train and look at how many people it effected. Spooky shit.

This is just more propaganda from the US its pretty sad really... WMD's sound familiar? They are just doing this to justify overthrowing a country that doesn't want to use our dollar.

[QUOTE=crazyjames;38834382]This is just more propaganda from the US its pretty sad really... WMD's sound familiar? They are just doing this to justify overthrowing a country that doesn't want to use our dollar.[/QUOTE] [quote][url]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-07-23/Syria-violence-rebels/56425402/1[/url][/quote] From the horses mouth, the fucking Foreign Affairs minister of Syria.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;38834396]From the horses mouth, the fucking Foreign Affairs minister of Syria.[/QUOTE] No shit? What country would not use their WMD's if attacked by a foreign army. Saddam was crazy and Gaddafi's was locked away in inaccessible bunkers.

[QUOTE=laserguided;38834429]No shit? What country would not use their WMD's if attacked by a foreign army. Saddam was crazy and Gaddafi's was locked away in inaccessible bunkers.[/QUOTE] He was just showing that Syria has chemical weapons, I don't know what you're responding to

[QUOTE=smurfy;38834531]He was just showing that Syria has chemical weapons, I don't know what you're responding to[/QUOTE] I'm sure the original guy was referring to some conspiracy over government control of the media and that this is somehow all being blown out of proportion. That or he was referring to 2003. Both equal guesses since his statement wasn't very specific to begin with. I mean its pretty much known by now that Syria has loads of chemical weapons, its like saying Israel has nukes.

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;38831506]isn't the fighting concentrated in population centres anyways? also NBC systems to protect civilians as well.[/QUOTE] I doubt they have that kind of equipment, and especially not enough for civilians. Where would they even get them?

[QUOTE=Angus725;38834181]Some of the rebellion forces had ties to al-Qaeda from what I've seen earlier; what if they get their hands on these chemical weapons after Assad is overthrown?[/QUOTE] This is why destroying them is the best option for everyone concenered. [editline]15th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=laserguided;38834556]I'm sure the original guy was referring to some conspiracy over government control of the media and that this is somehow all being blown out of proportion. That or he was referring to 2003. Both equal guesses since his statement wasn't very specific to begin with. I mean its pretty much known by now that Syria has loads of chemical weapons, its like saying Israel has nukes.[/QUOTE] Shh Iran might hear you.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;38834356]Sarin is so lethal in such small amounts its crazy. I mean look at the Tokyo metro terrorist attacks. Them dudes had small bags of liquid sarin per each train and look at how many people it effected. Spooky shit.[/QUOTE] It's 500 times as toxic as cyanide, that's terrifying.