Mahmoud Abbas slams Hamas AND Hamas is trying to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible - Polidicks

[B]Mahmoud Abbas slams Hamas over rocket attacks on Israel: ‘What are you trying to achieve?’[/B] [quote]RAMALLAH and JERUSALEM — Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on Hamas to end its hail of rockets on Israel as Israeli leaders signalled they were preparing to invade the Gaza Strip to stop the barrages. Mr. Abbas spoke Thursday as the Palestinian death toll from three days of intensified Israeli air strikes in Hamas-controlled Gaza neared 90. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a televised address there would be “additional phases” to the military operation and that a “difficult, complex” battle lies ahead. [B] “What are you trying to achieve by sending rockets?” Mr. Abbas asked on Palestine TV, without explicitly naming Hamas, which recently lent its backing to his government after a seven-year rift. “We prefer to fight with wisdom and politics.”[/B] It was the first time he has openly criticized Hamas for firing hundreds of rockets into Israel over the past month. The public nature of his critique may further strain his political alliance with the hardline Islamists, which has already developed cracks over finances and his denunciation of the abduction of three Israeli teenagers, whose killing Israel has blamed on the militant group.[/quote] Read more: [url]http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/10/mahmoud-abbas-slams-hamas-over-rocket-attacks-on-israel-what-are-you-trying-to-achieve/[/url] [B]What, Exactly, Is Hamas Trying to Prove? [/B] [quote]Mahmoud Abbas, the sometimes moderate, often ineffectual leader of the Palestinian Authority, just asked his rivals in Hamas a question that other bewildered people are also asking: “What are you trying to achieve by sending rockets?” The Gaza-based Hamas has recently fired more than 500 rockets at Israeli towns and cities. This has terrorized the citizenry, though caused few casualties, in large part because Israel is protected by the Iron Dome anti-rocket system. In reaction to these indiscriminately fired missiles, Israel has bombarded targets across Gaza. Compared with violent death rates in other parts of the Middle East, the number of dead in Gaza is small. (More than 170,000 people have been killed in the Syrian civil war to date.) But it is large enough to suggest an answer to Abbas’s question: [B]Hamas is trying to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible.[/B] [B]Dead Palestinians represent a crucial propaganda victory for the nihilists of Hamas.[/B] It is perverse, but true. It is also the best possible explanation for Hamas’s behavior, because Hamas has no other plausible strategic goal here. The men who run Hamas, engineers and doctors and lawyers by training, are smart enough to understand that though they wish to bring about the annihilation of the Jewish state and to replace it with a Muslim Brotherhood state (Hamas is the Palestinian branch of the Brotherhood), they are in no position to do so. Hamas is a militarily weak group, mostly friendless, that is firing rockets at the civilians of a powerful neighboring state.[/quote] Read more: [url]http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/what-exactly-is-hamas-trying-to-prove/374342/[/url] I try to stay unbiased in things, I try to get a point of view from all parties. What's your take on this? Do Hamas really care about Palestinian lives? Does Israel care if it kills Palestinians while trying to strike targets? The situation is bleak regardless. I don't know if a diplomatic solution can be reached as long as Hamas continues to instigate retaliations from Israel. And Israel settlements need to end. Hamas know that dead Palestinians will fuel anger towards Israel and gain them more support. Why else would they launch missiles into Israel knowing full well that none of them will reach their targets? Should Israel just not retaliate? Perhaps. It's clear that the only way this situation will ever resolve itself is if both sides are willing to lay down hostilities against each other and try to reach a compromise. It is clear that one side winning over the other will result in the death and hardship of many. Though it's clear that Israel being the bigger, more powerful country needs to be the one to step up to the plate, and recognize Palestine as a state first, so that talks can continue. I think the best ends to this would be unification into one country for all, but I don't think ether side is ready for that. For now at least, this chain-overreaction of bloodshed will continue for the foreseeable future. Nobody is right in this. In a way, both sides want the same thing, to eventually own the whole land for themselves. It's the 21st century and you can't truck off generations of Israelis over land disputes. Likewise, Israels land grab and disregard for Palestine is equally as disgusting as Hamas' hatred for Israel. If both sides want the same ends, why isn't there a movement on both sides to unify against terrorism and let the peaceful citizens live together? Is racism really that prominent throughout? Is religion really more important than living in peace? Kind of an unorganized thought dump, but what do you think the situation in this region will be like in 100 years?

Hamas is lucky Israel is trying to hold moral high ground. Otherwise they'd get leveled to the ground.

[quote]Kind of an unorganized thought dump, but what do you think the situation in this region will be like in 100 years?[/quote] Either Hamas will be smashed beyond recall and somebody else will take their place or (unlikely) Israel will be forced into/come to some sort of compromise.

Extremist religious groups don't care about the average Joe, they'll stop at nothing to achieve their goal. With that being said, Hamas will not listen to Mahmoud Abbas & co. Israel should stop being such a pain in the ass too, recognize Palestine as a state and be happy with the land you got, no need to capture further lands. Oh how history repeats itself.

[quote]Hamas is trying to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Dead Palestinians represent a crucial propaganda victory for the nihilists of Hamas. It is perverse, but true. It is also the best possible explanation for Hamas’s behavior, because Hamas has no other plausible strategic goal here.[/quote] The media is Hamas's biggest weapon. Their sole goal is to destroy Israel-- and if they have to kill themselves in order to make Israel look in a worse light, they'll do it. They don't care about the Palestinians, they only care about their twisted sense of righteousness.

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45378834]Either Hamas will be smashed beyond recall and somebody else will take their place or (unlikely) Israel will be forced into/come to some sort of compromise.[/QUOTE] Israel will never compromise with Hamas, whose stated goal is the the complete eradication of the Israelis state.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45380888]Israel will never compromise with Hamas, whose stated goal is the the complete eradication of the Israelis state.[/QUOTE] And why would Palestinians compromise with Israel? If a bunch of soldiers broke into your house and took it over, splitting it in half wouldn't be justice.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45380888]Israel will never compromise with Hamas, whose stated goal is the the complete eradication of the Israelis state.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I don't really see how a negotiation would work, as blissful as it would sound. "You only have to let us eradicate half your country and we won't fire missiles at you anymore!"

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;45380962]And why would Palestinians compromise with Israel? If a bunch of soldiers broke into your house and took it over, splitting it in half wouldn't be justice.[/QUOTE] If you're talking about Israel coming into existence, that's really a moot point anymore. If it were still the 1950s, I'd say Palestine would have a reason to become a state in the whole region, but Israel has been a going concern for 60 some years now and the Israelis that are the children and grandchildren of those who immigrated haven't a reason to move out of Israel just for Palestinians to create a state in the whole area. The fact of the matter in today's world is that Palestine, as a state, will never consist of more than the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It will never gain ground into what is today Israel. All it can hope for now is that Israel doesn't expand its official borders (which it has unofficially been doing).

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45381081]If you're talking about Israel coming into existence, that's really a moot point anymore. If it were still the 1950s, I'd say Palestine would have a reason to become a state in the whole region, but Israel has been a going concern for 60 some years now and the Israelis that are the children and grandchildren of those who immigrated haven't a reason to move out of Israel just for Palestinians to create a state in the whole area. The fact of the matter in today's world is that Palestine, as a state, will never consist of more than the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It will never gain ground into what is today Israel. All it can hope for now is that Israel doesn't expand its official borders (which it has unofficially been doing).[/QUOTE] Well, I was making more of a moral than practical point, though I agree. Israel won't cease to exist any time soon.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45380888]Israel will never compromise with Hamas, whose stated goal is the the complete eradication of the Israelis state.[/QUOTE] If you're going to use the charter of Hamas as an excuse they wont accept an Israeli state, then you should read the charter of the Israeli government [quote] a. [B]“The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”[/B] b.[B] “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”[/B] c. [B]“The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”[/B] d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.” [/B] [/quote]

Welp. I guess the region is forever a stain on humanity.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;45381234]If you're going to use the charter of Hamas as an excuse they wont accept an Israeli state, then you should read the charter of the Israeli government[/QUOTE] What are you talking about, an "excuse"? It's not an opinion, it's a fact - Israel won't compromise with Hamas and Hamas won't compromise with Israel. This isn't a pro-Israel or pro-Hamas statement in any which way. It appears you're just looking for an excuse to post more about how you don't like the Israeli state.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45381770]What are you talking about, an "excuse"? It's not an opinion, it's a fact - Israel won't compromise with Hamas and Hamas won't compromise with Israel. This isn't a pro-Israel or pro-Hamas statement in any which way. It appears you're just looking for an excuse to post more about how you don't like the Israeli state.[/QUOTE] It is not a fact. Bringing up the charter of an organization that rose out of a brutal occupation means jack shit. The PLO's charter called for terrorism too when they first launched and yet they have already renounced it long ago in favor of peace. Israel will renounce their claims too once they (just like Palestinians have) realized that there is no other choice.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;45381825]It is not a fact. Bringing up the charter of an organization that rose out of a brutal occupation means jack shit. The PLO's charter called for terrorism too when they first launched and yet they have already renounced it long ago in favor of peace. Israel will renounce their claims too once they (just like Palestinians have) realized that there is no other choice.[/QUOTE] Okay, I said Israel won't compromise with Hamas because Hamas's goal is to destroy Israel. So if Hamas renounces that, then yeah, of course they probably would compromise then. What's your point?

The Hamas and IDF should just stop fighting eachother IRL and just duke it out in Project Reality. Plot Twist: They have to play as the opposite faction during the tournament.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45382159]Okay, I said Israel won't compromise with Hamas because Hamas's goal is to destroy Israel. So if Hamas renounces that, then yeah, of course they probably would compromise then. What's your point?[/QUOTE] Apparently there ARE some peace talks now... I wonder how that's turning out.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45380888]Israel will never compromise with Hamas, whose stated goal is the the complete eradication of the Israelis state.[/QUOTE] In its charter they haven't used since the 80's

[QUOTE=amute;45392180]In its charter they haven't used since the 80's[/QUOTE] If there hasn't been an official, public announcement of it being changed, then it's still the official charter.

"In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."

[QUOTE=amute;45396496]"In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."[/QUOTE] 1) Source please. 2) So you're confirming that it hasn't been changed? The opinion of a single leader who obviously doesn't have the power to change it on his own means nothing if he can't effect a real change.

Israel just needs to invade already to kick out Hamas. Hopefully that would at least end the senseless collateral damage caused by flinging as many rockets as possible. The outcome won't be pretty, but there's really nothing pretty that can come of this anyway.

[QUOTE=sgman91;45413301]1) Source please. 2) So you're confirming that it hasn't been changed? The opinion of a single leader who obviously doesn't have the power to change it on his own means nothing if he can't effect a real change.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.wrmea.org/wrmea-archives/351-washington-report-archives-2006-2010/may-june-2010/9051-mazin-qumsiyeh-on-the-history-and-practice-of-nonviolent-palestinian-resistance-.html[/url] I never stated it was changed, I said it hasn't been used, which it hasn't. And you obviously have no clue about Palestinian affairs if you think Khaled Meshaal has no power. And don't fucking get all arrogant, YOU asked for an "official, public announcement" and I posted one. But apparently that's too good for you. [editline]16th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=urbanmonkey;45413694]Israel just needs to invade already to kick out Hamas. Hopefully that would at least end the senseless collateral damage caused by flinging as many rockets as possible. The outcome won't be pretty, but there's really nothing pretty that can come of this anyway.[/QUOTE] I got a great idea, how about Israel stop slaughtering civilians, that'd be neat.

[QUOTE=amute;45413921][url]http://www.wrmea.org/wrmea-archives/351-washington-report-archives-2006-2010/may-june-2010/9051-mazin-qumsiyeh-on-the-history-and-practice-of-nonviolent-palestinian-resistance-.html[/url] I never stated it was changed, I said it hasn't been used, which it hasn't. And you obviously have no clue about Palestinian affairs if you think Khaled Meshaal has no power. And don't fucking get all arrogant, YOU asked for an "official, public announcement" and I posted one. But apparently that's too good for you. [editline]16th July 2014[/editline] I got a great idea, how about Israel stop slaughtering civilians, that'd be neat.[/QUOTE] no you said your own words in quotation marks source means a source, not the words themselves.

Let me start off by saying that acting emotional (whether you actually are or not) really hurts any real argument that you make. [QUOTE=amute;45413921][url]http://www.wrmea.org/wrmea-archives/351-washington-report-archives-2006-2010/may-june-2010/9051-mazin-qumsiyeh-on-the-history-and-practice-of-nonviolent-palestinian-resistance-.html[/url] I never stated it was changed, I said it hasn't been used, which it hasn't.[/QUOTE] It's still the official charter. If they don't agree with it, then there's nothing stopping them from changing it. I'm guessing that the "internal reasons" mentioned in your quote refer to a lack of support in getting rid of it. As a side note: you didn't even quote the article correctly. Those are not the direct words of the leader, but a description by the author of the article. [QUOTE]And you obviously have no clue about Palestinian affairs if you think Khaled Meshaal has no power.[/QUOTE] Strawman. I never once claimed that. [QUOTE]And don't fucking get all arrogant, YOU asked for an "official, public announcement" and I posted one. But apparently that's too good for you.[/QUOTE] A random quote from some anonymous online poster isn't a trustworthy source on official quotes. You also conveniently didn't quote the rest of my sentence, here, let me do it for you: "public announcement of it being changed" A non-binding quote from a single leader isn't even close to the charter being officially changed.

[QUOTE=sgman91;45414708]Let me start off by saying that acting emotional (whether you actually are or not) really hurts any real argument that you make.[/QUOTE] If you're incapable of getting past a few swears and unable to debate a point because of it, you may as well quit while you're ahead. [quote]It's still the official charter.[/quote] The Official Document of the United States doesn't allow for an Air Force. Being an official charter doesn't mean a hell of a lot if it isn't used. [quote]If they don't agree with it, then there's nothing stopping them from changing it. I'm guessing that the "internal reasons" mentioned in your quote refer to a lack of support in getting rid of it.[/quote] There's your problem, you're guessing. Your entire argument is boiled down to "Well I personally don't think so, and it never happened." [quote]As a side note: you didn't even quote the article correctly. Those are not the direct words of the leader, but a description by the author of the article.[/quote] There's something called paraphrasing, and you'll find it in quite a few ie every single article ever. So how about this, you give me an example of Hamas following it's Charter.

for the love of jesus [B]JUST GIVE IT PITTA BREAD[/B]: [img]http://whatdidyoueat.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/22/img_4410.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=AK'z;45416501]for the love of jesus [B]JUST GIVE IT PITTA BREAD[/B]: [img]http://whatdidyoueat.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/22/img_4410.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] WTF is that? That's not what pitta bread looks like. Ugh. [IMG]http://maimons.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pita_resize.jpg[/IMG]

oh I pasted the wrong picture, just imagine pitta bread, that's all.

[QUOTE=amute;45416486]The Official Document of the United States doesn't allow for an Air Force. Being an official charter doesn't mean a hell of a lot if it isn't used.[/QUOTE] If you wanted to draw a comparable case with the US constitution you would need to show an area where the constitution directly said that it SHOULD do something, but it didn't actually do it. In reality, governments almost always push their founding documents past where they were originally intended to go. I know of no case where a government has the full right to do something and didn't use it's power to do it. [QUOTE]There's your problem, you're guessing. Your entire argument is boiled down to "Well I personally don't think so, and it never happened."[/QUOTE] I think it's obvious to any clear thinking person that that isn't my argument. [QUOTE]There's something called paraphrasing, and you'll find it in quite a few ie every single article ever.[/QUOTE] Misquoting is not paraphrasing.