Congressional report says that repealing Obamacare would cost $100 billion over the next decade. - Polidicks

[QUOTE]Republicans argue the federal government can't afford Obamacare. But a new congressional report says repealing the law would cost, not save, more than $100 billion in the next decade. The report also finds that doing away with the Affordable Care Act would result in 19 million fewer people with health insurance coverage as soon as next year, and 24 million fewer with coverage by 2020. The analysis is from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, and the Joint Committee on Taxation. It estimates that the cost of repealing the taxes levied by Obamacare, and the cost controls imposed by the law would by themselves increase the deficit by $353 billion between 2016 to 2025. [/QUOTE] [url]http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/19/news/economy/obamacare-deficit/index.html?iid=SF_LN[/url]

And the Republicans would gladly spend every penny of that.

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;48005293]And the Republicans would gladly spend every penny of that.[/QUOTE] Which is why the Republican party should just die already. I can't see why people even support this cancer of a political party still.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;48005402]Which is why the Republican party should just die already. I can't see why people even support this cancer of a political party still.[/QUOTE] "I can't see why people should have differing opinions." That is a very mature, well thought out statement.

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005440]"I can't see why people should have differing opinions." That is a very mature, well thought out statement.[/QUOTE] Yes, lets defend the unreasonable opinion that repealing obamacare is for the best. On every metric possible, we can tell that it's a bad idea to repeal it even though it's crippled as it is now(Thanks to republicans who crippled it so they could repeal it on one of the last attempts at bipartisanship that the republicans took advantage of and essentially spit in the face of the american people) so yes, it is a bad opinion to hold.

This is good. Obamacare wasn't great thanks to the amount of compromise that watered it down from what it was originally supposed to be (it was supposed to include a public care option, which would've been a great foundation to have built universal care on sooner rather than later), but it was still an important step in the right direction. I remember being worried about this when it was passed, that it'd be repealed quickly. But the good thing about the delays and prolonging repeals which the Republicans desperately clawed for was that the law was gradually entrenching itself in place. Now it's so entrenched, it's not going anywhere. Not realistically anyway. The Republicans aren't going to be able to repeal it without causing a lot of damage to the country and to themselves. Try to if you want; you'll pay dearly.

Yes, "the Republican party should die" because they have differing opinions. Yeah. Not just because of this particular stance, but just because they have bad opinions. Got a bad opinion? You should die. That is superior and righteous stance to have.

Yes, an entire political party should no longer be in existence because its members have differing opinions than that of another political party. And then what, create a new political party? Stop being politically active? Or assimilate into the group they disagreed with?

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005440]"I can't see why people should have differing opinions." That is a very mature, well thought out statement.[/QUOTE] Yes actually, it is. There are many things in life that are straightforward, if you choose to make them straightforward. The problem with the Republican Party for years now though has been that it doesn't want to make things straightforward within the interests of the American people-- not when it comes to health care, not when it comes to taxes, not when it comes to regulation of business and commerce, not when it comes to separation of church and state... It's a shit party, has been for a very long time now, and the sooner it dies the better off we'll all be.

It's a narrow-minded comment to make. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Govna;48005527]Yes actually, it is. There are many things in life that are straightforward, if you choose to make them straightforward. The problem with the Republican Party for years now though has been that it doesn't want to make things straightforward within the interests of the American people-- not when it comes to health care, not when it comes to taxes, not when it comes to regulation of business and commerce, not when it comes to separation of church and state... It's a shit party, has been for a very long time now, and the sooner it dies the better off we'll all be.[/QUOTE] So what's the alternative? [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] You realize those people with those opinions [I]don't stop[/I] having those opinions, right? If you dismantled the Republican party, a similar one would literally take its place. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] Honestly, what do you think would happen if that were really to occur?

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005509]Yes, "the Republican party should die" because they have differing opinions. Yeah. Not just because of this particular stance, but just because they have bad opinions. Got a bad opinion? You should die. That is superior and righteous stance to have.[/QUOTE] You're being both hyperbolic and ridiculous. People want the ideology of the party to die, not the people in it, though the majority of them are old men who do not represent the population anymore and are aging out anyways, so there is that. But strictly speaking, the people are talking about an ideology dying. The republican party has made it impossible for bipartisanship to happen. That's an undeniable fact that is being re-written every day by the media who support them. They refuse to work with the democrats. They refuse to have discussions about the issues. They are an ideology of "I got mine, fuck you" and that's causing serious issues in todays world, in todays america. Dispute this or not, that's what's happening. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005530]It's a narrow-minded comment to make. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] So what's the alternative? [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] You realize those people with those opinions [I]don't stop[/I] having those opinions, right? If you dismantled the Republican party, a similar one would literally take its place. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] Honestly, what do you think would happen if that were really to occur?[/QUOTE] Do you just not get what people are saying? People aren't saying "I want to dismantle the party" or "I want GoP members dead" or anything to that effect. They're saying they want their mindset to be gone.

Actually, both parties don't want to work with each other.

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;48005293]And the Republicans would gladly spend every penny of that.[/QUOTE] On Defense

You-you want their mindset to be gone? So you want everyone to have the same mindset?

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005525]Yes, an entire political party should no longer be in existence because its members have differing opinions than that of another political party. And then what, create a new political party? Stop being politically active? Or assimilate into the group they disagreed with?[/QUOTE] So are you just going to repeat idiotic false dichotomies until the cows come home? Desiring a different party than the far right republicans to be in existence is an entirely realistic and worth while goal. The republicans have shifted the entire conversation to the right. They have changed american politics. They have done everything in their power to move the discussion further and further right on the political spectrum. It's not a good thing, and it doesn't cause bipartisanship. Do you really want to support an ideology that refuses to shake hands and make deals unless they're entirely on their terms?

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005559]You-you want their mindset to be gone? So you want everyone to have the same mindset?[/QUOTE] Please stop. If anything, both the Republican and Democrat parties should be dismantled, allowing politicians to regroup and form more, smaller parties allowing for a more diverse political landscape and better distribution of the power.

Actually both the left and the right have done exactly what they want, focused on their own respective ideals. That's perfectly fine. You will always have people on the right and the left. Are you suggesting there should just not be a far right? What about a far left? Should people not be able to hold the ideals to the far lengths of their political spectrum?

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005559]You-you want their mindset to be gone? So you want everyone to have the same mindset?[/QUOTE] What is a false dichotomy? Wanting their mindset of stalwartly blocking progress, holding on to the past, twisting the facts and creating a society of "Fuck you I got mine" is not wanting everyone to have the same view. I don't want everyone to have the same view, and wanting A view point gone is not the same as wanting them all to be the same. Do you see that? Do you see that wanting 1 number out of 100,000 numbers is meaningless in the grand scheme of things and isn't asking everyone to have the same opinion? Oh wait, do you function on the concept that the world is black and white? Democrats and republicans? Nothing but that? No variations there upon? The world is as simple as binary?

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005584]Actually both the left and the right have done exactly what they want, focused on their own respective ideals. That's perfectly fine. You will always have people on the right and the left. Are you suggesting there should just not be a far right? What about a far left? Should people not be able to hold the ideals to the far lengths of their political spectrum?[/QUOTE] There isn't a far left in american politics. Even Bernie Sanders is a relatively centrist person in the rest of the world. There isn't an american far left. There IS an american far right. And no, both parties have not done what they exactly want. You'll find that that's just simply not true. How do you "Get exactly what you want" when your'e being filibustered and stopped on every avenue by a republican party spitting in the face of bipartisanship.

I think there are two widely agreed on positions. The right wants to take responsibility of their own health care, and the left wants society in part to help in universalizing health care. I think what's widely missed between both parties is the fact that health care is prohibitively expensive. That should be the real discussion, because what the right and the left want are both completely reasonable. What isn't is 10,000% markups on medical expenses. Saying one party shouldn't exist is not the right way to establish good, well intended discussion in the nation, or any other. It's a way to shut people down with differing ideals. That's wrong.

Would you say the opinion that the earth is the centre of the universe, and the sun travels around us should be an opinion that is okay to hold? I'm not going to harm you or stop you from holding it, but that doesn't mean the opinion is flat out wrong, it is. People pointing out how it's wrong, why it's wrong, will hopefully stop people from holding an opinion that is factually wrong.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48005597]There isn't a far left in american politics. Even Bernie Sanders is a relatively centrist person in the rest of the world. There isn't an american far left. There IS an american far right. And no, both parties have not done what they exactly want. You'll find that that's just simply not true. How do you "Get exactly what you want" when your'e being filibustered and stopped on every avenue by a republican party spitting in the face of bipartisanship.[/QUOTE] There actually is a far left and a far right. To actually go out of your way to say there isn't is denial, or refusal to accept a fellow citizen's perspective. But what does it matter to you, your flagdog says you're a Canadian. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48005608]Would you say the opinion that the earth is the centre of the universe, and the sun travels around us should be an opinion that is okay to hold? I'm not going to harm you or stop you from holding it, but that doesn't mean the opinion is flat out wrong, it is. People pointing out how it's wrong, why it's wrong, will hopefully stop people from holding an opinion that is factually wrong.[/QUOTE] Not every fact here is presented with complete context. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rocket;48005595]We're not saying that nobody should be able to hold beliefs. We're saying that some people's beliefs are stupid and they should change them.[/QUOTE] Change them to what? The other party's? This is actually bigotry by definition.

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005601]I think there are two widely agreed on positions. The right wants to take responsibility of their own health care, and the left wants society in part to help in universalizing health care. I think what's widely missed between both parties is the fact that health care is prohibitively expensive. That should be the real discussion, because what the right and the left want are both completely reasonable. What isn't is 10,000% markups on medical expenses. Saying one party shouldn't exist is not the right way to establish good, well intended discussion in the nation, or any other. It's a way to shut people down with differing ideals. That's wrong.[/QUOTE] Some ideals are wrong though, unless you want to get into the discussion that ALL ideals are okay? Yes, healthcare is prohibitively expensive and the republican manner of dealing with this has been to ignore it and insist "Fuck you, I got mine" rather than to change anything about it. They demonized, and demonstrably plagued the ACA bill with problems so that when it was enacted, it was hamstringed. And you say they want to fix any sort of problems? They don't, that's why a lot of people don't think they have anything valid to say.

How is an ideal wrong??? Seriously dude, you're basically saying "you're wrong for having X ideal." You flat out cannot say that. I can't say one of your ideals is wrong, and you can't say one of mine is wrong, they're literally unfalsifiable. They are not things you can factually say are wrong.

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005610]There actually is a far left and a far right. To actually go out of your way to say there isn't is denial, or refusal to accept a fellow citizen's perspective. But what does it matter to you, your flagdog says you're a Canadian. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] Not every fact here is presented with complete context. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] Change them to what? The other party's? This is actually bigotry by definition.[/QUOTE] It matters to me because my country is currently following your country like a blind puppy off a fucking cliff making the same mistakes your country makes. I care because your country determines global issues and policies in so many fucking ways, but what would YOU know about that? There is not a far left in america. The far left in america, when travelling up to canada, becomes a very centrist group. They are not a "far left" by any imagination, they are only the "far left" when your persepctive is skewed. You likely think the republicans are a middle ground/right party. They're not. They're far right. Again with your fucking false dichotomies.

[QUOTE=Rocket;48005629]Change them to ones that are less dumb. And this is not bigotry by any reasonable usage. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] If I thought we should kill all jewish people, it's not bigotry for someone to say "No, that's dumb and you're a nazi."[/QUOTE] The fact you want them to change and aren't willing to accept them as they are but simply disagree is bigotry!

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005641]How is an ideal wrong??? Seriously dude, you're basically saying "you're wrong for having X ideal." You flat out cannot say that. I can't say one of your ideals is wrong, and you can't say one of mine is wrong, they're literally unfalsifiable. They are not things you can factually say are wrong.[/QUOTE] "Black people deserve to be segregated" I'm now awaiting your eager defense of an ideal that cannot be wrong.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48005642]It matters to me because my country is currently following your country like a blind puppy off a fucking cliff making the same mistakes your country makes. I care because your country determines global issues and policies in so many fucking ways, but what would YOU know about that? There is not a far left in america. The far left in america, when travelling up to canada, becomes a very centrist group. They are not a "far left" by any imagination, they are only the "far left" when your persepctive is skewed. You likely think the republicans are a middle ground/right party. They're not. They're far right. Again with your fucking false dichotomies.[/QUOTE] You're insulting dude.

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;48005646]The fact you want them to change and aren't willing to accept them as they are but simply disagree is bigotry![/QUOTE] People in the republican party actively want people like Rocket to repress who they are and hide, they want people like Rocket to not exist in their america And you claim he's a fucking bigot?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48005648]"Black people deserve to be segregated" I'm now awaiting your eager defense of an ideal that cannot be wrong.[/QUOTE] But that's not [I]WRONG FACTUALLY[/I] that is [I]an ideal that most people today disagree[/I] with. [editline]19th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rocket;48005656]Wow, are you saying his posts are [i]wrong[/i]? That's bigotry, man.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying they're wrong, he's being a bit rude. I don't think we have to result to bad language or poor manners.