• ISRAEL THREAD (Post new Israel threads = get banned)
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Source:[url]http://networkedblogs.com/4wIy7[/url] [QUOTE]When St.-Sgt. S. fast-roped down from an air force Black Hawk helicopter onto the Mavi Marmara Turkish passenger ship on Monday morning, he did not expect to be landing in what he called “a battlefield” and facing off against a group of “murderous mercenaries.” The 15th and last naval commando from Flotilla 13 (the Shayetet) to rappel down onto the ship from the helicopter, S. said on Thursday that he was immediately attacked by what the IDF has called “the mob of mercenaries” aboard the vessel, just like the soldiers who had boarded just before him. Looking to his side, he saw three of his commanders lying wounded – one with a gunshot wound to the stomach and another with a gunshot wound to the knee. A third was lying unconscious; his skull was fractured by a devastating blow with a metal bar. As the next in the chain of command, S., who has been in the Shayetet for three and a half years, immediately took charge. He pushed the wounded soldiers up against the wall of the upper deck and created a perimeter of soldiers around them to begin treating their wounds, he said. He then arranged his men to form a second perimeter, and pulled out his 9 mm. Glock pistol to stave off the charging attackers and to protect his wounded comrades. The attackers had already seized two pistols from the commandos, and fired repeatedly at them. Facing more than a dozen of the mercenaries, and convinced their lives were in danger, he and his colleagues opened fire, he said. S. singlehandedly killed six men. His colleagues killed another three.[/QUOTE] Right.. Right..
Well it's not like a group of commandos tried to raid their... oh.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;22383198]Well it's not like a group of commandos tried to raid their... oh.[/QUOTE] Which they had a complete right to? :v:
This is exaggerated to the fucking max.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;22383227]Which they had a complete right to? :v:[/QUOTE] Oh for the love of god can we have a Isreal/Gaza thread without a debate sparking up after the first 2 posts?
Were IDF guys actually shot? I want to know that.
This is getting out of hand on both sides. They're both blowing it way out of proportion for their own good.
Exaggeration 101
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;22383297]Were IDF guys actually shot? I want to know that.[/QUOTE] Yes, some activists took their guns and shot them. A soldier was admitted into hospital over a gunshot wound.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22383371]Yes, some activists took their guns and shot them. A soldier was admitted into hospital over a gunshot wound.[/QUOTE] One would think that if they merely turned the other cheek and stuck with pacifism all the way, it would promote their cause at showing how "brutal" the Israelis are, but given that they fought back, and fought back [I]hard[/I], they're going to be just as bad as the commandos in many eyes.
I knew Facepunch was Anti-Israel but this is getting ridiculous. You people are just getting on the band wagon. Israel has done alot of stupid shit and they earn what they get for it but this 'Love Boat' shit is barely their fault.
Sounds like a shitty action movie.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22383396]One would think that if they merely turned the other cheek and stuck with pacifism all the way, it would promote their cause at showing how "brutal" the Israelis are, but given that they fought back, and fought back [I]hard[/I], they're going to be just as bad as the commandos in many eyes.[/QUOTE] "Just as bad as the commandos" and why were the commandos bad?
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22383409]I knew Facepunch was Anti-Israel but this is getting ridiculous. You people are just getting on the band wagon. Israel has done alot of stupid shit and they earn what they get for it but this 'Love Boat' shit is barely their fault.[/QUOTE] you can't simply declare bandwagon as some ace in an argument stay out of this unless you have something constructive to say besides "BANDWAGON".
The Commandos were ordered to do something. They did not have the right to say, "No Sir." They boarded the ship with handguns. An angry mob attacked them with pipes, knives, guns, clubs, hammers and other weapons, threw one overboard, shot two. ONLY THEN did they fire their weapons to defend themselves. They -knew- that if they fired they would create a shit storm like we have now but they had no choice.
Oh, they were trained Commandos? Shouldn't they be trained better than to use live ammo on a crowd of mostly innocent people? I mean Israel is funded A LOT of money they should be have some non-lethal tactics they use or are they dull to the concept due to the horrible treatment the give to the people of Gaza?
[QUOTE=Soldier32;22383502]Oh, they were trained Commandos? Shouldn't they be trained better than to use live ammo? I mean Israel is funded A LOT of money they should be have some non-lethal tactics they use or are they dull to the concept due to the horrible treatment the give to the people of Gaza?[/QUOTE] Trained Commandos should never use live ammunition. Thanks for the tip. They were armed with handguns for self defense, they waited as long as possible before they fired, only when their lives were in immediate danger, even far past that line.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22383454]"Just as bad as the commandos" and why were the commandos bad?[/QUOTE] What I meant to say is, many condemn the Israelis for boarding. Regardless of why they condemn them, having the people on the ship fight back so viciously make them look "just as bad" as the commandos are being perceived. I didn't mean to say whether the soldiers were in the right or wrong.
[QUOTE=Soldier32;22383502]Oh, they were trained Commandos? Shouldn't they be trained better than to use live ammo on a crowd of mostly innocent people? I mean Israel is funded A LOT of money they should be have some non-lethal tactics they use or are they dull to the concept due to the horrible treatment the give to the people of Gaza?[/QUOTE] They did use less than lethal weapons, but they wouldn't stop so they shot them.
[QUOTE=Soldier32;22383502]Oh, they were trained Commandos? Shouldn't they be trained better than to use live ammo on a crowd of mostly innocent people? I mean Israel is funded A LOT of money they should be have some non-lethal tactics they use or are they dull to the concept due to the horrible treatment the give to the people of Gaza?[/QUOTE] Although the ship proclaimed that they were peaceful, they had no idea what kind of things were on the ship. After all, they were going to check it for contraband. For all they knew, the ship was full of armed men.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22383518]Trained Commandos should never use live ammunition. Thanks for the tip. They were armed with handguns for self defense, they waited as long as possible before they fired, only when their lives were in immediate danger, even far past that line.[/QUOTE] Not that they shouldn't use live ammunition but you know you're not going onto a boat armed with fugitives with AK-47's and shit. You're going on a humanitarian aid ship that will not comply with your orders. Instead of possible shooting and killing them in the worst scenario you would rather subdue them peacefully with non-lethal ammunition.
i'm done arguing this, the consequences of this won't stop either the israeli's or palastinians from killing each other
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22383528]What I meant to say is, many condemn the Israelis for boarding. Regardless of why they condemn them, having the people on the ship fight back so viciously make them look "just as bad" as the commandos are being perceived. I didn't mean to say whether the soldiers were in the right or wrong.[/QUOTE] The soldiers didn't even do anything. They boarded the ship and that was all they did. Then they were attacked and when they were cornered defended themselves. It was self defense. Their original purpose is a moot point because it was never accomplished. The boarding parties objective atleast.
All those middle east countries are complete shit. They don't need democracy, they just need us to leave them the fuck alone and let them kill each other off.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22383528]What I meant to say is, many condemn the Israelis for boarding. Regardless of why they condemn them, having the people on the ship fight back so viciously make them look "just as bad" as the commandos are being perceived. I didn't mean to say whether the soldiers were in the right or wrong.[/QUOTE] OK, just wanted to clear that up.
[QUOTE=Soldier32;22383556]Not that they shouldn't use live ammunition but you know you're not going onto a boat armed with fugitives with AK-47's and shit. You're going on a humanitarian aid ship that will not comply with your orders. Instead of possible shooting and killing them in the worst scenario you would rather subdue them peacefully with non-lethal ammunition.[/QUOTE] They did bring non-lethal weapons but they proved to be completely ineffective so they had to use their sidearms to defend their lives. Why do people keep acting like it was a love-boat? There was an angry mob onboard. I would undertand if the Commandos fast roped down and started to gun down people, but they didn't. The mob was waiting for them.
That guy who killed six people seem kinda creepy to me, don't they learn how to shoot people so they only get injured/disabled instead of killed?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;22383546]Although the ship proclaimed that they were peaceful, they had no idea what kind of things were on the ship. After all, they were going to check it for contraband. For all they knew, the ship was full of armed men.[/QUOTE] It was in a sense, but this objective wasn't completed at first because of the angry mob attacking the soldiers. This sort of reinforces WHY they boarded the ship 'illegally'
Murder in their eyes? I think there's a Visine for that.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22383594]They did bring non-lethal weapons but they proved to be completely ineffective so they had to use their sidearms to defend their lives. Why do people keep acting like it was a love-boat? There was an angry mob onboard. I would undertand if the Commandos fast roped down and started to gun down people, but they didn't. The mob was waiting for them.[/QUOTE] Who's saying it's a love boat? Both sides equally dealt with the situation the wrong way.
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