Ukraine to get no gas in June if they do not start paying for it - Polidicks

[QUOTE]Russia's state energy giant Gazprom has said it may halt natural gas shipments to Ukraine on 3 June unless the country pays in advance for supplies. Gazprom boss Alexei Miller said the move was because of outstanding debts. If there is no payment by the deadline then "Ukraine will receive zero cubic metres [of gas] in June," Russian news agency Interfax reported. And Prime Minster Dmitry Medvedev said on Russian TV saying they could no longer "nanny" Ukraine. IMF money Mr Miller said Ukraine must pay in advance for its June deliveries because of debts amounting to $3.51bn (2.55bn euros; £2.1bn). His comments were made during a meeting with Mr Medvedev. The Russian president said that Kiev could dip into its IMF aid package and questioned Ukraine's refusal to do so until now. "According to our information, Ukraine has received money from the first IMF tranche," he said. Ukraine has refused to cover its obligations in protest over Moscow's decision to nearly double the price it charges Kiev for gas imports. Ukraine's Finance Minister Oleksandr Shlapak had earlier said on Monday that the county was willing to cover its outstanding payment as soon as Russia lowered its price.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27374070[/url]

Silly Russia, gas is more important in winter time than summer. Plenty of time to come up with a solution to the crisis before this is a critical issue.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44795562]Silly Russia, gas is more important in winter time than summer. Plenty of time to come up with a solution to the crisis before this is a critical issue.[/QUOTE] That's what they want you to think!

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44795562]Silly Russia, gas is more important in winter time than summer. Plenty of time to come up with a solution to the crisis before this is a critical issue.[/QUOTE] yes i think most eastern europeans know how to keep themselves warm and start a fire from anything source: GSC Game World (2007). S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl. Kiev: THQ.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44795562]Silly Russia, gas is more important in winter time than summer. Plenty of time to come up with a solution to the crisis before this is a critical issue.[/QUOTE] IT will take more than a few months to reorganise their entire economy, they also have more pressing matters at hand. Ukraine is fucked unless they can make some kind of deal.

Sounds like a reasonable request. Like the saying goes: "No money, no burger."

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44795562]Silly Russia, gas is more important in winter time than summer. Plenty of time to come up with a solution to the crisis before this is a critical issue.[/QUOTE] Ukraine always needs gas, it's for our heavy industry in the East

Actually, that's pretty reasonable, given that they delayed payment for gas that they used after Maidan. Business is business.

I don't get free gas if I stop paying the bills.

Well guys, you have to consider that in some less-developed countries people use gas in their stoves instead of electricity

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44798560]Well guys, you have to consider that in some less-developed countries people use gas in their stoves instead of electricity[/QUOTE] i wouldn't exactly say that the ukraine is some under developed or developing nation

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44798560]Well guys, you have to consider that in some less-developed countries people use gas in their stoves instead of electricity[/QUOTE] Uh, gas stoves are common here too. [editline]13th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44798579]i wouldn't exactly say that the ukraine is some under developed or developing nation[/QUOTE] They aren't developing they're degenerating.

[QUOTE=laserguided;44798585]They aren't developing they're degenerating.[/QUOTE] Ukraine has recovered a bit from the lows they were at under Soviet rule.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44798662]Ukraine has recovered a bit from the lows they were at under Soviet rule.[/QUOTE] Ukraine was basically the top republic in the USSR. I don't know what lows you're talking about

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44798662]Ukraine has recovered a bit from the lows they were at under Soviet rule.[/QUOTE] They've been in decline for a long time.

[QUOTE=laserguided;44798689]They've been in decline for a long time.[/QUOTE] Not since 2000. Since then (with the exception of 2009) their economy has consistently grown. [editline]13th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Laserbeams;44798688]Ukraine was basically the top republic in the USSR. I don't know what lows you're talking about[/QUOTE] Holodomor and the five year plans and gulags during the first half under the Soviets. Economic stagnation, the Chernobyl disaster, Russification, Internal social problems for the second half.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44798793]Not since 2000. Since then (with the exception of 2009) their economy has consistently grown. [/QUOTE] You're right, Ukraine's population is increasing at the insane rate of -0.2%

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44798560]Well guys, you have to consider that in some less-developed countries people use gas in their stoves instead of electricity[/QUOTE] Hey!

[QUOTE=laserguided;44798850]You're right, Ukraine's population is increasing at the insane rate of -0.2%[/QUOTE] yet fertility rates, life expectancies, and birth rates are rising [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Natural_Population_Growth_of_Ukraine.PNG[/img] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine#Vital_statistics_.5B11.5D.5B12.5D[/url] it's recovering lol

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44798888]yet fertility rates, life expectancies, and birth rates are rising [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Natural_Population_Growth_of_Ukraine.PNG[/img][/QUOTE] I don't see a Ukraine with more than 50m people in the next 100 years.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44798793]Not since 2000. Since then (with the exception of 2009) their economy has consistently grown. [editline]13th May 2014[/editline] Holodomor and the five year plans and gulags during the first half under the Soviets. Economic stagnation, the Chernobyl disaster, Russification, Internal social problems for the second half.[/QUOTE] All of the Soviet Union had these problems, except for the Chernobyl disaster maybe. Ukraine is still in a worse shape than it was in 1945 - 1991

[QUOTE=laserguided;44798917]I don't see a Ukraine with more than 50m people in the next 100 years.[/QUOTE] firstly why should people care if the population isnt 50m secondly a difference of 5 million isn't hard to make up

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44798560]Well guys, you have to consider that in some less-developed countries people use gas in their stoves instead of electricity[/QUOTE] We do here and using gas instead of electricity for stoves ends up saving money.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44798560]Well guys, you have to consider that in some less-developed countries people use gas in their stoves instead of electricity[/QUOTE] We also burn gas for electricity

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44798932]All of the Soviet Union had these problems, except for the Chernobyl disaster maybe. Ukraine is still in a worse shape than it was in 1945 - 1991[/QUOTE] You best revise that to "1953 to 1991". Ukraine still had the gulag system heavily and suffered from famines and constant shortages in the post-war period. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%9347[/url] Well, you best pull back the end date too. "1953 to 1985" Glasnost was when the USSR began to fall to bits, and Ukraine was heavily subsidized by the USSR. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_SSR#Gorbachev_and_dissolution:_1985.E2.80.931991[/url] Then of course what about itself between when Stalin died and when the USSR collapsed? Ukraine was used as an industrial powerhouse to build the Soviet military and navy, whereas consumer goods and the quality of life was stagnant or declined, even compared to its neighbours in the Eastern bloc. Then of course there's this: [quote]Deep recession during the 1990s led to a relatively high poverty rate, but beginning in 2001, as a result seven of straight years of economic growth, the standard of living for most citizens has increased. World Bank report, 2007 notes: "Ukraine recorded one of the sharpest declines in poverty of any transition economy in recent years. The poverty rate, measured against an absolute poverty line, fell from a high of 32% in 2001 to 8% in 2005.[24] UN notes that absolute poverty in Ukraine already was overcome, there is only relative poverty today.[25] The macroeconomy is stable, and the hyperinflation of the 1990s has subsided.[citation needed] Ukraine's currency, the hryvnia, was introduced in September 1996.[26] The economy has continued to grow thanks to exports since 2000, although at uneven speed and being highly affected (circa -15% GDP growth) by the Great Recession and the 2008–2009 Ukrainian financial crisis.[/quote] Is Ukraine really doing worse off than it was under the Soviets? It's arguably improving, and once the recent crisis ends I see a lot of potential for Ukraine to rapidly develop and later join the EU over the next 20 or 30 years.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44799064]You best revise that to "1953 to 1991". Ukraine still had the gulag system heavily and suffered from famines and constant shortages in the post-war period. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%9347[/url] Well, you best pull back the end date too. "1953 to 1985" Glasnost was when the USSR began to fall to bits, and Ukraine was heavily subsidized by the USSR. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_SSR#Gorbachev_and_dissolution:_1985.E2.80.931991[/url] Then of course what about itself between when Stalin died and when the USSR collapsed? Ukraine was used as an industrial powerhouse to build the Soviet military and navy, whereas consumer goods and the quality of life was stagnant or declined, even compared to its neighbours in the Eastern bloc. Then of course there's this: Is Ukraine really doing worse off than it was under the Soviets? It's arguably improving, and once the recent crisis ends I see a lot of potential for Ukraine to rapidly develop and later join the EU over the next 20 or 30 years.[/QUOTE] I don't want to justify the soviets or anything, but both my mother and grandparents told me that Ukraine had a better supply of goods then the central Russia and most republics. They could buy there a lot of stuff that was really rare\limited in most of the Union, from food to cars and perfumery, and people sometimes visited Ukraine just to buy these scarce goods. There were pretty good resorts too, and I don't see why having a well developed heavy industry was bad for the country.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44799064]You best revise that to "1953 to 1991". Ukraine still had the gulag system heavily and suffered from famines and constant shortages in the post-war period. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%9347[/url] Well, you best pull back the end date too. "1953 to 1985" Glasnost was when the USSR began to fall to bits, and Ukraine was heavily subsidized by the USSR. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_SSR#Gorbachev_and_dissolution:_1985.E2.80.931991[/url] Then of course what about itself between when Stalin died and when the USSR collapsed? Ukraine was used as an industrial powerhouse to build the Soviet military and navy, whereas consumer goods and the quality of life was stagnant or declined, even compared to its neighbours in the Eastern bloc. Then of course there's this: Is Ukraine really doing worse off than it was under the Soviets? It's arguably improving, and once the recent crisis ends I see a lot of potential for Ukraine to rapidly develop and later join the EU over the next 20 or 30 years.[/QUOTE] Wait, you're telling him about history of his own country? :v:

[QUOTE=antianan;44799145]I don't want to justify the soviets or anything, but both my mother and grandparents told me that Ukraine had a better supply of goods then the central Russia and most republics. They could buy there a lot of stuff that was really rare\limited in most of the Union, from food to cars and perfumery, and people sometimes visited Ukraine just to buy these scarce goods. There were pretty good resorts too, and I don't see why having a well developed heavy industry was bad for the country.[/QUOTE] The industry was largely used to support the military. While people did go to Ukraine for various goods (my babcia did this and bought colour TVs and platinum watches in the 1970s), you had to be politically well connected and/or wealthy. My family got stuff because they happened to be fairly high up in the Polish soviet government (controlled some factories too). In general the vast majority of nobodies didn't get much. [editline]13th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=DrAkcel;44799231]Wait, you're telling him about history of his own country? :v:[/QUOTE] so?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44799316]The industry was largely used to support the military. While people did go to Ukraine for various goods (my babcia did this and bought colour TVs and platinum watches in the 1970s), you had to be politically well connected and/or wealthy. My family got stuff because they happened to be fairly high up in the Polish soviet government (controlled some factories too). In general the vast majority of nobodies didn't get much. [/QUOTE] Well, my grandpa was a pilot, and grandma was a teacher. None of these fancy government folks, but still they were able to buy a car there, and some other smaller stuff that i don't really remember now. And what about industry - is it that bad that they were producing a milltary stuff there? I mean, it still gave a lot of workplaces, so why not? They had some ironworks and other facilities too, by the way. I mean - it's always better to have an industry and workplaces then not to ahve them.

Not when it's evil commie workspaces building ironwrought machines of wealth distribution. Better dead than red! Etc