Ukrainian speakers fleeing People's Republic of Donetsk - Polidicks

[IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74814000/jpg/_74814441_022231359-1.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]Ukrainian speakers in the eastern region of Donetsk have started leaving the area, fearing for their safety as pro-Russian militants tighten their grip. The declaration on Monday by separatist leaders that their self-declared "Donetsk People's Republic" was now an independent, sovereign state which could ultimately be absorbed into Russia is likely to hasten the exodus. "If a separate Donetsk People's Republic is founded here, I will have to leave," says Olga, a businesswoman and single mother with a young daughter. "I won't be able to speak Ukrainian, my native language. A lot of my friends are currently selling their houses and moving to west Ukraine. People are afraid for their lives and families." Although it is not an easy decision for her, she believes she has no choice because "freedom is the most important thing". The fears are greatest amongst pro-Ukrainian activists who have spoken out against the ethnic Russians leading the drive to break away from Ukraine. "Almost all my activist friends have now left," one source told the BBC whose own family are now packing up and heading west. Their fears are well-founded. Pro-Russian militants have been filmed dragging activists into the now notorious regional government building in Donetsk city, which has been occupied by the separatists since March and has now become the headquarters of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic. There are reports that one floor of the building is used as a makeshift prison and interrogation centre. The glass entrance doors have been covered, making it impossible to see what is happening inside. The divide between the majority ethnic Russian population and the Ukrainian-speaking community in the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk is widening. Sunday's unofficial referendum on independence organised by the pro-Russian separatists highlighted and exacerbated the division. It seems very few Ukrainian-speakers took part. "It was a joke, it was illegal and we just didn't react to it because the aim of the referendum was to break up Ukraine," said Olga. "There was nothing in it for us."[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27392074[/url]

I can just imagine the guy in the picture saying "RUSSIANS!" [quote]Pro-Russian militants have been filmed dragging activists into the now notorious regional government building in Donetsk city[/quote] That's kinda dark.

fucking swine

This is getting really concerning.

No offense by any means, but shouldn't they be rising up against this junta government en masse instead of turning and fleeing? The best thing they can do is go and protest. It puts them in danger, of course, but the separatists can't drag [I]thousands[/I] into their makeshift prisons. Put actual pressure on them. SHOW them you wish to stay with Ukraine. If they so much as point a gun at you, they're openly advertising the clear intent to practice military authority to maintain order. Safety in numbers. Keep connected so the shadow ops death squads funtime galore can't get at you or your family or friends at night either. As the pressure builds, they will start to crack. Russia can't help them if it's obvious there's a vast part of the population opposed to this. Minority /> Majority. And they can't appeal to any sort of victim status if they themselves are trucking around, guns blazing, victimizing the Ukrainians. This is getting me more worked up than I'd like... Re-assess the situation! I understand they want to keep their families and friends safe, but this. Running away. Leaving everything behind. If the stubborn Russian minority don't have to move back to Russia because their lives are settled here, then why do you willingly do so? Make yourselves heard, dammit. You're not a population statistic. You're fucking citizens of the Ukraine Republic, and it's your duty to stand up for yourselves, your neighbors, your family and your very people when they are being unjustly treated, Russian or Ukrainian. Oppose these rebels if you truly feel wronged. Oppose them to the extent of your abilities. Every little bit counts. Don't fanatically dedicate your lives to the cause, because that would be stupid and would endanger you and your families, but for fuck's sake, don't just hand it, and your dignity, to the separatists on a silver platter either.

Welcome to Balkan 2.0

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;44804995]Huge wall of text.[/QUOTE] If they were to protest outside there then the Russian separatists would gun everything down and claim that Ukrainian military did it. Or they would drag people in one by one for torturing since they are making it easy for them by lining up outside instead of trying to stay alive hiding in their homes or fleeing to the west.

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;44804995]No offense by any means, but shouldn't they be rising up against this junta government en masse instead of turning and fleeing? The best thing they can do is go and protest. It puts them in danger, of course, but the separatists can't drag [I]thousands[/I] into their makeshift prisons. Put actual pressure on them. SHOW them you wish to stay with Ukraine. If they so much as point a gun at you, they're openly advertising the clear intent to practice military authority to maintain order. Safety in numbers. Keep connected so the shadow ops death squads funtime galore can't get at you or your family or friends at night either. As the pressure builds, they will start to crack. Russia can't help them if it's obvious there's a vast part of the population opposed to this. Minority /> Majority. And they can't appeal to any sort of victim status if they themselves are trucking around, guns blazing, victimizing the Ukrainians. This is getting me more worked up than I'd like... Re-assess the situation! I understand they want to keep their families and friends safe, but this. Running away. Leaving everything behind. If the stubborn Russian minority don't have to move back to Russia because their lives are settled here, then why do you willingly do so? Make yourselves heard, dammit. You're not a population statistic. You're fucking citizens of the Ukraine Republic, and it's your duty to stand up for yourselves, your neighbors, your family and your very people when they are being unjustly treated, Russian or Ukrainian. Oppose these rebels if you truly feel wronged. Oppose them to the extent of your abilities. Every little bit counts. Don't fanatically dedicate your lives to the cause, because that would be stupid and would endanger you and your families, but for fuck's sake, don't just hand it, and your dignity, to the separatists on a silver platter either.[/QUOTE] Safety in numbers is horrible because it more or less assumes part of the herd will be culled, and if it fails, either by people running away or mass-shooting, casualties are gonna be massive. Add to that that noteverybody wishes to risk their lives for a cause unlikely to succeed, and your safety quickly starts going away.

[QUOTE=Civil;44805082]If they were to protest outside there then the Russian separatists would gun everything down and claim that Ukrainian military did it. Or they would drag people in one by one for torturing since they are making it easy for them by lining up outside instead of trying to stay alive hiding in their homes or fleeing to the west.[/QUOTE] Jesus, read what you're typing. They won't gun down civvies. If there wasn't already enough flak going off between the military and the separatists, this would only serve to further solidify the legitimacy of the military's assaults. Protect the civilians from armed and trained insurgent elements in the contested regions. No, turning on protesting civilians is a hammer of bitter irony in the faces of the "victimized Russian minority". Toting the guns is about the most they can do. Pulling the trigger demands a wholly different kind of disregard for both agenda and life. And pulling them off the streets just like that is not going to work. The authority vested in the would-be jailers is illegitimate. At least that's what the people of Ukraine keep crying out. If they truly think so, then stand up to it. Don't idly sit by. Subdue the assailing separatist. Perform a citizen's arrest, because by legitimate law, and in the eyes of the civilized world, you have all the justification to. Stand as one, not as one until somebody stubs a toe. You're on the brink of civil war. Things will not change if a thug with a gun tells you to go home, and [I]you go home[/I]. Protest the pseudo-status quo. Do something other than fleeing and running away. Or... ...you can go home, you can indeed flee. Start over wholly somewhere new, letting down everyone who did decide to stand up for themselves and [I]you[/I]. Everyone who found the unjust treatment of both theirs and your own livelihoods a travesty worth fighting against. [QUOTE=Riller;44805091]Safety in numbers is horrible because it more or less assumes part of the herd will be culled, and if it fails, either by people running away or mass-shooting, casualties are gonna be massive. Add to that that not everybody wishes to risk their lives for a cause unlikely to succeed, and your safety quickly starts going away.[/QUOTE] The worst case scenario is always one with any loss of lives, no doubt, but consider the rebels' predicament: if the separatists just opened up on the crowd to quell unrest, what do you suppose would happen to them? Even Russia with all it's dick-waving couldn't save them. This is precisely why they are effectively rushing along the process while stalling and stifling both media coverage and protesting sentiments. To get it over with as quickly as possible in order to secede and unify with Russia. They will not open fire on the crowd. They can't. They will only fire at the military, who present a clear and direct armed threat to their agenda. They have nary the resources nor methods of controlling civil unrest, if only the civilians themselves were over the fears of the unofficial punishment blocks and blood hound squads. Which they are not, it seems. Not willing to risk but hoping to gain. They say the spirit breaks the sword, but if there's not much spirit to speak of, what's the point? If these people decide to (not by their own wording of course) abandon that which is rightfully theirs and move away, who is to say it's wrong of the vultures to come and pick at the remains? I mean, hey, they didn't really seem to mind. They just sort of left. None of this mess is black-and-white, good against bad. People on both sides are suffering, but it's this aversion to trying to end the suffering with their own hands that escapes me.

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;44804995]No offense by any means, but shouldn't they be rising up against this junta government en masse instead of turning and fleeing? The best thing they can do is go and protest. It puts them in danger, of course, but the separatists can't drag [I]thousands[/I] into their makeshift prisons. Put actual pressure on them. SHOW them you wish to stay with Ukraine. If they so much as point a gun at you, they're openly advertising the clear intent to practice military authority to maintain order. Safety in numbers. Keep connected so the shadow ops death squads funtime galore can't get at you or your family or friends at night either. As the pressure builds, they will start to crack. Russia can't help them if it's obvious there's a vast part of the population opposed to this. Minority /> Majority. And they can't appeal to any sort of victim status if they themselves are trucking around, guns blazing, victimizing the Ukrainians. This is getting me more worked up than I'd like... Re-assess the situation! I understand they want to keep their families and friends safe, but this. Running away. Leaving everything behind. If the stubborn Russian minority don't have to move back to Russia because their lives are settled here, then why do you willingly do so? Make yourselves heard, dammit. You're not a population statistic. You're fucking citizens of the Ukraine Republic, and it's your duty to stand up for yourselves, your neighbors, your family and your very people when they are being unjustly treated, Russian or Ukrainian. Oppose these rebels if you truly feel wronged. Oppose them to the extent of your abilities. Every little bit counts. Don't fanatically dedicate your lives to the cause, because that would be stupid and would endanger you and your families, but for fuck's sake, don't just hand it, and your dignity, to the separatists on a silver platter either.[/QUOTE] They can't pressure the junta government, the junta government is in Russia

what a bunch of barbarians.

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;44804995]No offense by any means, but shouldn't they be rising up against this junta government en masse instead of turning and fleeing? The best thing they can do is go and protest. It puts them in danger, of course, but the separatists can't drag [I]thousands[/I] into their makeshift prisons. Put actual pressure on them. SHOW them you wish to stay with Ukraine. If they so much as point a gun at you, they're openly advertising the clear intent to practice military authority to maintain order. Safety in numbers. Keep connected so the shadow ops death squads funtime galore can't get at you or your family or friends at night either. As the pressure builds, they will start to crack. Russia can't help them if it's obvious there's a vast part of the population opposed to this. Minority /> Majority. And they can't appeal to any sort of victim status if they themselves are trucking around, guns blazing, victimizing the Ukrainians. This is getting me more worked up than I'd like... Re-assess the situation! I understand they want to keep their families and friends safe, but this. Running away. Leaving everything behind. If the stubborn Russian minority don't have to move back to Russia because their lives are settled here, then why do you willingly do so? Make yourselves heard, dammit. You're not a population statistic. You're fucking citizens of the Ukraine Republic, and it's your duty to stand up for yourselves, your neighbors, your family and your very people when they are being unjustly treated, Russian or Ukrainian. Oppose these rebels if you truly feel wronged. Oppose them to the extent of your abilities. Every little bit counts. Don't fanatically dedicate your lives to the cause, because that would be stupid and would endanger you and your families, but for fuck's sake, don't just hand it, and your dignity, to the separatists on a silver platter either.[/QUOTE] Or, they're more concerned about their families than that of the state, such as the business woman who is single with a daughter. If my country came crashing apart, my focus would be keeping my wife and children alive and safe, first and foremost while saying "fuck this country" all the way out.