Funeral for WW2 soldier Roy Wooldridge who was saved by Erwin Rommel - Polidicks

[QUOTE]The funeral of a decorated former soldier spared from the firing squad by a Nazi general in World War Two has taken place. Roy Wooldridge, 97, of Hendy, Carmarthenshire, was captured in France while on a secret mission just before D-Day in 1944. He was taken to Erwin Rommel who decided he should not be shot. Mr Wooldridge, who was twice awarded the Military Cross, later lived in Cardiff, where his funeral was held. The Royal Engineer previously recounted his memories of war on the BBC's Antiques Roadshow in 2014. He recalled how Rommel asked if he needed anything and he replied "a pint of beer, cigarettes and a good meal". His collection of war memorabilia, including the empty cigarette packet given to him by Rommel, was valued at £10,000 by experts but he did not want to sell it and it will now be donated to the Imperial War Museum in London.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38462867[/url] [IMG]http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/315D/production/_93173621_roywoolridge2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/586D/production/_93173622_ww2collection06.jpg[/IMG]

God bless.

RIP sir. Also, Erwin Rommel was a good person, it's a shame he was forced into suicide.

Man,if Erwin Rommel gave me a cigarette packet I would start smoking right there on the spot.

I've always respected Rommel. He strikes me as having been a gentleman. I don't know if that's just post-war whitewashing or what but he seemed like a good man caught between service to Hitler and service to his country and his men.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51598878]I've always respected Rommel. He strikes me as having been a gentleman. I don't know if that's just post-war whitewashing or what but he seemed like a good man caught between service to Hitler and service to his country and his men.[/QUOTE] There is a thing called the Rommel myth out there [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rommel_myth[/url] There really isn't strong evidence for both sides. "Historians and commentators conclude that Rommel remains an ambiguous figure, not easily definable either inside or outside the myth. The debate is still on-going."

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51598878]I've always respected Rommel. He strikes me as having been a gentleman. I don't know if that's just post-war whitewashing or what but he seemed like a good man caught between service to Hitler and service to his country and his men.[/QUOTE] I get the general impression that Rommel was a pretty upstanding commander, but I think it's wise to be cautiously skeptical given how the wehraboo community idolizes him. Whether he was a good guy or not, apolitical general or enthusiastic Nazi, he's pretty strongly featured in the myth of the clean Wehrmacht and that means positive depictions of him have to be taken with a grain of salt.

The "Our Friend Rommel" meme being just that is pretty well documented. One of the sillier facets of the whole "Clean Wehrmacht" myths.

Myth or not he was a professional officer who ignored many of the insane orders Hitler gave him and from what I recall his Afrika Korps was never tried with War Crimes?

Well Hitler wanted him dead so he must have done something right

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;51599059]Myth or not he was a professional officer who ignored many of the insane orders Hitler gave him and from what I recall his Afrika Korps was never tried with War Crimes?[/QUOTE] no, every front had warcrimes and whilst Africa had barely any, it still happened, but probably without Rommels knowledge I know for a fact the Luftwaffe did some bad stuff in Africa

[QUOTE=SirJon;51599095]Well Hitler wanted him dead so he must have done something right[/QUOTE] Yeah he was part of the attempt that failed to kill Hitler. Only reason he wasn't murdered in the street was Hitler really liked Rommel so he was given the option of suicide or he'd kill him and his family.

[QUOTE=Senscith;51599151]Yeah he was part of the attempt that failed to kill Hitler. Only reason he wasn't murdered in the street was Hitler really liked Rommel so he was given the option of suicide or he'd kill him and his family.[/QUOTE] Wasn't it because the troops liked Rommel and they didn't wanna loose morale?

[QUOTE=SirJon;51599162]Wasn't it because the troops liked Rommel and they didn't wanna loose morale?[/QUOTE] That and the German population at large afaik considered him a national hero. Executing him wouldn't just hurt morale among the military, it would have turned the public against Hitler. Regardless of the "Clean Wehrmacht" myth, imo he was still a professional officer who knew when to ignore outrageous orders and [I]tried[/I] his best to keep the war clean.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51599206]That and the German population at large afaik considered him a national hero. Executing him wouldn't just hurt morale among the military, it would have turned the public against Hitler. Regardless of the "Clean Wehrmacht" myth, imo he was still a professional officer who knew when to ignore outrageous orders and [I]tried[/I] his best to keep the war clean.[/QUOTE] What's the Clean Wehrmacht myth? [editline]30th December 2016[/editline] Oh, nevermind, I wikipedia'd it

[QUOTE=Tuskin;51598885]There is a thing called the Rommel myth out there [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rommel_myth[/url] There really isn't strong evidence for both sides. "Historians and commentators conclude that Rommel remains an ambiguous figure, not easily definable either inside or outside the myth. The debate is still on-going."[/QUOTE] It's almost like he's human or something :v:

Rommel being a saint is rather exaggerated. No doubt he was a good guy but everyone seems to act like he is the military version of Gandhi. He was also a fairly meh general on a large scale level. Good at tactical victories but 'dude logitistics what are those? o man no fuel or water time to withdraw!!' He's one of the most overrated generals in history tbh.

[QUOTE=Araknid;51599540]Rommel being a saint is rather exaggerated. No doubt he was a good guy but everyone seems to act like he is the military version of Gandhi. He was also a fairly meh general on a large scale level. Good at tactical victories but 'dude logitistics what are those? o man no fuel or water time to withdraw!!' He's one of the most overrated generals in history tbh.[/QUOTE] His tactics during world war 1 as an officer were very good. I just finished reading his book, and he did some pretty ballsy things and got a lot accomplished. He was definitely better on a smaller scale

[QUOTE=Araknid;51599540]Rommel being a saint is rather exaggerated. No doubt he was a good guy but everyone seems to act like he is the military version of Gandhi. He was also a fairly meh general on a large scale level. Good at tactical victories but 'dude logitistics what are those? o man no fuel or water time to withdraw!!' He's one of the most overrated generals in history tbh.[/QUOTE] Alot of this was helped by imediate post war western media (propaganda) portraying, Good Germans. Cold war and all that. Germany was not an enemy anymore but people had to be won over from the 'All germans are Nazis' belief.

[QUOTE=Araknid;51599540]Rommel being a saint is rather exaggerated. No doubt he was a good guy but everyone seems to act like he is the military version of Gandhi. He was also a fairly meh general on a large scale level. Good at tactical victories but 'dude logitistics what are those? o man no fuel or water time to withdraw!!' He's one of the most overrated generals in history tbh.[/QUOTE] Not so much a meh general as he was a MASSIVE gambler. The logistics problems were, for a large part, down to Germany's lack of supplies to keep everything going at once.

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;51600763]Not so much a meh general as he was a MASSIVE gambler. The logistics problems were, for a large part, down to Germany's lack of supplies to keep everything going at once.[/QUOTE] Ehhh he lead a lot of really poorly planned campaigns across Africa. He wasn't really a long term thinker it seems. Really interesting guythough, bone up on him if you haven't.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51600773]Ehhh he lead a lot of really poorly planned campaigns across Africa. He wasn't really a long term thinker it seems. Really interesting guythough, bone up on him if you haven't.[/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/aq566e0.jpg[/t] Roughly 70% of those books are WW2 books - and that's not even all of them. :v: I find it an INCREDIBLY interesting timeperiod, so much interesting stuff happened. Heroes and villains on both sides, amazing feats of tactical genius, major advances in science and medicine. Rommel's campaigns weren't really poorly planned, they invariably ended up being WAY bigger than they were supposed to - and thus bigger than planned/prepared for. "fingerspitzengefühl" was his motto, basically translates to 'instinct and opportunity' (no real literal translation exists AFAIK). It's a discussion I will [B]gladly[/B] get into (cause it allows/demands me to indulge in one of my favorite subjects :v: ) but this thread isn't the right place for it imo.

[QUOTE=doom1337;51599599]His tactics during world war 1 as an officer were very good. I just finished reading his book, and he did some pretty ballsy things and got a lot accomplished. He was definitely better on a smaller scale[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm aware that he was very good at smaller scale tactics, but what I mean is that he's most known as the Desert Fox, and yet in the desert there were quite a lot of fuck ups in regards to logistics.

[QUOTE=Araknid;51603140]Yeah I'm aware that he was very good at smaller scale tactics, but what I mean is that he's most known as the Desert Fox, and yet in the desert there were quite a lot of fuck ups in regards to logistics.[/QUOTE] At the risk of this thread going deep into WW2 history, Rommel was between a rock and a hard place. We can say he was poor at logistics, but ultimately the Axis powers never took Malta and or Gibraltar. Thus never secured their shipping supply lanes and more importantly failed to cut off the Commonwealth forces in North Africa. Ultimately while Rommel knew this and told Hitler as much it was outside his control, As such no one did anything [I]major [/I]to take them, largely because of what happened on Crete. IIRC Rommel lost over 60% of his supplies when it was in transit across the med.

Rommel, whether a hero or not, is a certifiably interesting figure. From the historical accounts I've read of the man, I lean towards he was a really good person stuck in a really horrible place, and did what he could. He made bad decisions, made mistakes, and was ultimately human. But he did his best to be a good leader, and a good person to the men under his command and captured under his command. How much truth there is to some of the larger myths of the man, we may never really know. But there's enough accounts of people caught by him to see that he was one of the better people around at that time, and in charge at that time. Certainly kicks the pants off of Patton if you ask me. That man is the definition of over-rated. McArthur was way better.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51603919]Rommel, whether a hero or not, is a certifiably interesting figure. From the historical accounts I've read of the man, I lean towards he was a really good person stuck in a really horrible place, and did what he could. He made bad decisions, made mistakes, and was ultimately human. But he did his best to be a good leader, and a good person to the men under his command and captured under his command. How much truth there is to some of the larger myths of the man, we may never really know. But there's enough accounts of people caught by him to see that he was one of the better people around at that time, and in charge at that time. Certainly kicks the pants off of Patton if you ask me. That man is the definition of over-rated. McArthur was way better.[/QUOTE] Was McArthur not the guy who sicked the Army on WW1 vets who were protesting for their pensions because he thought they were communists despite Hoover telling him to stand down?

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;51603082][t]http://i.imgur.com/aq566e0.jpg[/t] Roughly 70% of those books are WW2 books - and that's not even all of them. :v: I find it an INCREDIBLY interesting timeperiod, so much interesting stuff happened. Heroes and villains on both sides, amazing feats of tactical genius, major advances in science and medicine. Rommel's campaigns weren't really poorly planned, they invariably ended up being WAY bigger than they were supposed to - and thus bigger than planned/prepared for. "fingerspitzengefühl" was his motto, basically translates to 'instinct and opportunity' (no real literal translation exists AFAIK). It's a discussion I will [B]gladly[/B] get into (cause it allows/demands me to indulge in one of my favorite subjects :v: ) but this thread isn't the right place for it imo.[/QUOTE] This seems really interesting, is there anywhere to bring the discussion to? Do we have a world war 2 history thread or anything?

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;51603082] "fingerspitzengefühl" was his motto, basically translates to 'instinct and opportunity' (no real literal translation exists AFAIK). [/QUOTE] Fingerspitzengefühl literally means "fingertip feeling", although "feeling" in this case is rather about the physical sensation of the tips of your fingers than about an emotional feeling. It also automatically assumes a positive stance to it (a bit shoddily explained, but I can't find any better words for that). So translating it less directly, but in a way in which it would convey it's meaning more, it would be "sharp Fingertip sensation". Basically what it means is , paying great attention to the details, being careful, not letting discrete details slip your mind. At least in it's typical context, AFAIK in military context it has a slightly different meaning still.

[QUOTE=doom1337;51604759]This seems really interesting, is there anywhere to bring the discussion to? Do we have a world war 2 history thread or anything?[/QUOTE] There's a history thread in GD it's dead afaik but feel free to revive it :v: