Catholic Church firmly, quietly opposes firearms for civilians - Polidicks

[quote=US Catholic] Friday, January 14, 2011 By Catholic News Service By Carol Glatz, Catholic News Service VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The Catholic Church's position on gun control is not easy to find; there are dozens of speeches and talks and a few documents that call for much tighter regulation of the global arms trade, but what about private gun ownership? The answer is resoundingly clear: Firearms in the hands of civilians should be strictly limited and eventually completely eliminated. But you won't find that statement in a headline or a document subheading. It's almost hidden in a footnote in a document on crime by the U.S. bishops' conference and it's mentioned in passing in dozens of official Vatican texts on the global arms trade. The most direct statement comes in the bishops' "Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice" from November 2000. "As bishops, we support measures that control the sale and use of firearms and make them safer -- especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children or anyone other than the owner -- and we reiterate our call for sensible regulation of handguns." That's followed by a footnote that states: "However, we believe that in the long run and with few exceptions -- i.e. police officers, military use -- handguns should be eliminated from our society." That in turn reiterates a line in the bishops' 1990 pastoral statement on substance abuse, which called "for effective and courageous action to control handguns, leading to their eventual elimination from our society." On the world stage, the Vatican has been pushing for decades for limitations not just on conventional weapons of warfare, such as tanks and missiles, but also for stricter limitations on the illegal and legal sale, trade and use of small firearms and weapons, said Tommaso Di Ruzza, the expert on disarmament and arms control at the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace. Di Ruzza told Catholic News Service that the Vatican is one of just a handful of states that would like to see small arms and weapons included in the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty, which would better regulate the flow of conventional arms. He said while many countries are open to limits on larger weapons systems, most nations aren't interested in regulating small arms even though they "cause more deaths than all other arms (conventional and non-conventional) together." The Vatican's justice and peace council is working to update its 1994 document, "The International Arms Trade," to further emphasize the importance of enacting concrete controls on handguns and light weapons, he said. The current document calls on every nation and state "to impose a strict control on the sale of handguns and small arms. Limiting the purchase of such arms would certainly not infringe on the rights of anyone." The more weapons there are in circulation, the more likely terrorists and criminals will get their hands on them, the document said. The Catholic Church recognizes that "states will need to be armed for reason of legitimate defense," as Pope Benedict XVI said in a message to a Vatican-sponsored disarmament conference in April 2008. However, armed defense is something appropriate for nations, not for all individual citizens in a state where rule of law is effective, said Di Ruzza. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, individuals have a right and a duty to protect their own lives when in danger, and someone who "defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow." How that "lethal blow" could be licitly wielded is unclear, but the catechism clarifies that repelling the aggressor must be done "with moderation" in order to be "lawful" in the eyes of the church; using "more than necessary violence" would be unlawful, it says. According to the catechism, the right to use firearms to "repel aggressors" or render them harmless is specifically sanctioned for "those who legitimately hold authority" and have been given the duty of protecting the community. Di Ruzza said that in "a democracy, where there is respect for institutions (of law), the citizen relinquishes his right to revenge onto the state," which, through its law enforcement and courts system, aims to mete out a fair and just punishment. "There is a sort of natural right to defend the common interest and the common good, and in 1791 (when the United States passed the Second Amendment), my right to have a weapon served the common good because there wasn't an army; the democratic institutions were young and a little fragile, and I could have been useful in a time of war as a soldier," said Di Ruzza. But once a nation has a functioning army, police force and court system, "do I still serve the common good with my gun or do I put it at even greater danger?" and promote a lawless kind of "street justice where if you steal my car, I shoot you," he asked. The Vatican's justice and peace council's 1994 document said, "In a world marked by evil and sin, the right of legitimate defense by armed means exists," but, Di Ruzza said, it wasn't lauding the potential of weaponry as much as it was lamenting the existence of arms in an imperfect world. Nations have a duty, the document said, to reduce if not eliminate the causes of violence. And as Pope Benedict wrote in his message to the disarmament conference, no reduction or elimination of arms can happen without eliminating violence at its root. Every person "is called to disarm his own heart and be a peacemaker everywhere," the pope said.[/quote] :wtc: Source: [url]http://www.uscatholic.org/news/2011/01/gun-control-church-firmly-quietly-opposes-firearms-civilians[/url]

Another example of the Catholic Church being incompetent in regards to their own faith. Don't they realize Jesus was an avid gun collector? [img]http://duanegraham.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/jesus_gun.jpg[/img]

That's nice. Nobody will listen.

I'm sure that'll resound well with bible belt goers.

I don't care about gun control anywhere else in the world. If gun control takes place in America, I'll be pissed.

[QUOTE=Explosions;27488751]That's nice. Nobody will listen.[/QUOTE] The fact that they're being quiet about it isn't exactly helping, either. "You must get rid of your guns. If you would. It... it would be nice. Please don't shoot us or leave our churches." Also, I read the last line as 'every person "is called to disarm his own heart and be a pacemaker everywhere"'

Funny since the bible says that even jesus's followers carried weapons. John 18:10[URL="http://bible.cc/john/18-11.htm"] [/URL] Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

[QUOTE=Mudbone;27488923]Funny since the bible says that even jesus's followers carried weapons. John 18:10[URL="http://bible.cc/john/18-11.htm"] [/URL] Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.[/QUOTE] I rated funny before reading the post because I thought it would be about Jesus shooting people or something, but then I realized it was serious.

[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;27488769]I'm sure that'll resound well with bible belt goers.[/QUOTE] The Bible Belt goers are typically Baptist. Catholic people are in my experience more liberal with regards to most things, the exceptions being abortion and gay marriage

It's worth noting that this has been their position since the 13th century...

I'd rather not be told what I can and can't own by an organization of child molesters.

[QUOTE=Billiam;27488748]Another example of the Catholic Church being incompetent in regards to their own faith. Don't they realize Jesus was an avid gun collector? [img_thumb]http://duanegraham.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/jesus_gun.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Jesus u kamping newb!11!

They're just taking our guns so they can kill us all.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;27490084]The Bible Belt goers are typically Baptist. Catholic people are in my experience more liberal with regards to most things, the exceptions being abortion and gay marriage[/QUOTE] In my experience protestants are the most liberal and catholics are the most conservative

When I read the title I thought it was a Christian church. I thought maybe they came to their senses.

[quote= Luke 22:36]He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.[/quote] Oh Catholic church, your so silly! :downs:

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;27490084]The Bible Belt goers are typically Baptist. Catholic people are in my experience more liberal with regards to most things, the exceptions being abortion and gay marriage[/QUOTE] You're wrong there buddy. I go to a Catholic school and to say you're a liberal is to exclude yourself from nearly everyone else in the school. Of course, that could be all the parental brainwashing, as their attention payed to politics ain't worth a dime. They're pretty much completely conservative on everything, save for gay marriage, surprisingly.

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

[QUOTE=Mudbone;27488923]Funny since the bible says that even jesus's followers carried weapons. John 18:10[URL="http://bible.cc/john/18-11.htm"] [/URL] Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.[/QUOTE] ahaha, religious people, reading the bible? are you insane

[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;27488769]I'm sure that'll resound well with bible belt goers.[/QUOTE] Most of the Bible Belt is Southern Baptist. To them, they believe that god said to them "Thou shalt have guns," and that the Catholic Church are evil satanic worshipers.

"he who lives by the sword will die by the sword" -jesus 2010

[QUOTE=Atchell;27492547]"he who lives by the sword will die by the sword" -jesus 2010[/QUOTE] herp derp jesus wasnt alive in 2010

[QUOTE=supersnail11;27492709]herp derp jesus wasnt alive in 2010[/QUOTE] umm do you not know how ressurection works? he's obviously still alive just chilling in the clouds throwing around quotes for FPers to find.

Big surprise that the organization that didn't want people to be able to read also doesn't like them being armed.

And that organization created the great crusades.

This will probably touch a raw nerve, but I really don't understand. What's the benifit of allowing civilians to own guns apart from the selfish desire of having something that makes big noises and hurts people when pretty much all countries that allow this have a much higher amount of gun crime per person?

[QUOTE=Robert64;27495702]This will probably touch a raw nerve, but I really don't understand. What's the benifit of allowing civilians to own guns apart from the selfish desire of having something that makes big noises and hurts people when pretty much all countries that allow this have a much higher amount of gun crime per person?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1048302-In-wake-of-the-bad-shit-that-went-down-in-T-Town-lawmakers-ready-gun-control-bills[/url] This thread is a pretty recent and relatively in depth debate over that topic. You can read it and it will, hopefully, answer your questions.

Do it like Australia... Ban guns and have barely any violence.

[QUOTE=Best4bond;27496324]Do it like Australia... Ban guns and have barely any violence.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/30/2641300.htm[/url]

This seems a fair aim. A world without guns would probably be much nicer. Can't say it'll work out, though. [QUOTE=Mudbone;27488923]Funny since the bible says that even jesus's followers carried weapons. John 18:10[URL="http://bible.cc/john/18-11.htm"] [/URL] Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.[/QUOTE] One of the most horrific examples of taking something out of context I've ever seen. Really, quite astounding. [QUOTE=Rubs10;27491954]You're wrong there buddy. I go to a Catholic school and to say you're a liberal is to exclude yourself from nearly everyone else in the school. Of course, that could be all the parental brainwashing, as their attention payed to politics ain't worth a dime. They're pretty much completely conservative on everything, save for gay marriage, surprisingly.[/QUOTE] And I've seen nothing like that at my own Catholic high school. [QUOTE=GunFox;27494569]Big surprise that the organization that didn't want people to be able to read also doesn't like them being armed.[/QUOTE] That must be it - the Vatican obviously desires this to take over the world. Dan Brown, eat your heart out - if only the Catholic Church hadn't been responsible for so much education...