• North Korea is starting to crack as James Bond movies, free markets, soap operas, and channel 4 work
    52 replies, posted
[quote]Eight-year-old Min staggers forwards, unsteady on his feet from hunger and exhaustion, wearing a shabby, blue overcoat discarded by an adult twice his size, and tells the hidden camera: “My mum tried to look after me but it got too hard so she told me I have to go, so I left and now I live outside.” Min is among dozens of homeless street kids who gather around North Korean markets begging for money and looking for scraps of food. Their lives are featured in undercover footage to be screened this week in a Channel 4 documentary. A network of ordinary North Koreans have been filming secretly inside the country and smuggling the footage out across the border with China. The footage gives a rare insight into the most isolated nation on earth, revealing the reality of everyday life in North Korea and showing the first signs of cracks in the regime’s control.[/quote] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/a-digital-escape-from-north-koreas-secret-state-kim-jongun-faces-threat-from-undercover-films-posted-on-the-web-8931494.html[/url] [quote]The undercover footage shows one woman chasing off a soldier trying to stop her running an illegal private bus service. “Where are your stars? If you’re an officer where are your stars then? You bastard! You’re an arsehole!” Mr Ishimaru speaks of a noticeable shift in North Korean society. “People’s willingness to confront or ignore authority has become more common,” he said. “People around the world have this image of North Koreans as being brainwashed, but that’s mistaken. Often now when North Koreans are challenged for infringing a certain law, as long as the offence is not political, they don’t hesitate to protest if they believe the law to be irrational.”[/quote] North Korea is dying.
Kim Jong-il loved James Bond films. I don't think he liked Die Another Day, though :v:
I have a lot of hope for this. This should be the first step in NK's Government downfall.
[QUOTE=GlebGuy;42831618]I have a lot of hope for this. This should be the first step in NK's Government downfall.[/QUOTE] Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] Sorry, you're right, but the way they treat their people is beyond my expression. In the bottom-line, I just hope that things will turn out better, even if the odds might not be all that great.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] If it collapses, there's the possibility for future North Korean people not to be oppressed. If it doesn't, those same people [I]will[/I] be oppressed. It wouldn't be pretty, but it'd be better.
This is pretty much what happened in the Soviet Union before it collapsed
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] Okay we will just leave them be, their concentration camps are doing so well for the populace, I mean it would be sooooo much work rehabilitating all those poor people, fuck it you know we can just let them all suffer because it will take too much work on our end to help them all :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] Humanitarian Tragedy if the world doesn't balls up and helps each other. With that mindset, everything is a tragedy.
I wonder if Kim liked this: [video=youtube;UEaKX9YYHiQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ[/video] Somehow I doubt it :v:
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] fortunately the ways that north korea is collapsing might actually result in less death and destruction than other collapses. i mean one of the staples of the "grey market" in north korea is personal gardens which allows the population to actually eat. if the government collapses there will still be plenty of people who are growing food and capable of keeping society going.
Is there a link to this doco I am really interested to watch it
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] Well of course China and South Korea don't want it. It's going to cost them money and effort to help fix the problem. And I'd consider North Korea to already be a "humanitarian tragedy." But, you know, whatever, if you don't think helping people who are starving to death and being publicly executed is worth it because it'll cost money and require effort on the part of the neighboring countries and the UN, then I don't know what to tell you.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42832288]Is there a link to this doco I am really interested to watch it[/QUOTE] Bottom of the article says it will air on channel 4 on Nov. 14.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;42831757]We need to start to accept that there is no pretty way out, and it is already a humanitarian tragedy but one we can't reach and something we can if it collapses.[/QUOTE] But what if Kimmie get his head straight and start cooperating with the world?
[QUOTE=Xieneus;42831570] I don't think he liked Die Another Day, though :v:[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone did [video=youtube;6w6FV8P7HXg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w6FV8P7HXg[/video]
[QUOTE=lirro433;42832516]But what if Kimmie get his head straight and start cooperating with the world?[/QUOTE] I honestly think there's a greater chance of a total collapse of the DPRK than there is of cooperation. They want recognition, but they want to be immediately accepted as a nuclear power player and that's not gonna happen, especially since they're trying to bully everyone else into accepting that rather than actually talking about it.
[QUOTE=Soleeedus;42832560]I don't think anyone did [video=youtube;6w6FV8P7HXg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w6FV8P7HXg[/video][/QUOTE] Not gonna lie but I enjoyed Die Another Day. It was full of action and the plot was hilarious.
[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42832456]Bottom of the article says it will air on channel 4 on Nov. 14.[/QUOTE] Damn I don't live in the UK :(
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] The temporary pain is worth it in the long run
My main concern with a collapse of North Korea would be the massive influx of "communist" insurgents and the massive blackmarket of weapons that would greatly effect every country around them(and themselves). Not to mention the massive influx of refugees, reports of how bad the famine/gulags are, and overall the massive stigma from all of this that would undermine any form of communist and socialist movements from ever occurring.
I think the collapse of the USSR is all the stigma communism needs in the eyes of the uneducated
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42833694]I think the collapse of the USSR is all the stigma communism needs in the eyes of the uneducated[/QUOTE] This would be far worse. The first gulags and mass graves found would just be another nail in the coffin.
[QUOTE=GlebGuy;42831618]I have a lot of hope for this. This should be the first step in NK's Government downfall.[/QUOTE] China and SK would sooner give the government food than see it collapse. The cost for them would be utterly enermous. [QUOTE=thelurker1234;42833515]The temporary pain is worth it in the long run[/QUOTE] Temporary pains that could potentially completely bankrupt SK. We're talking about folks who are taken back by what West Germany did by unifying with the East. And who are amazed that Germany withstood the financial strain. And compared to NK, the DDR was small and relatively well developed.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;42833731]This would be far worse. The first gulags and mass graves found would just be another nail in the coffin.[/QUOTE] Why? Yes it would be upsetting and idiots would look at it and think "Grr dirty commies" but it's well known that the gulags exist and that people are executed for minor infractions or disloyalty on a daily basis. Having absolute confirmation of it would be something, I guess, but more than enough people have escaped and spread the tales to do away with any of idea of myth regarding the gulags or deaths.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] exactly why does no one get this millions would die - unable to leave to south korea (which literally can't take that many refugees) or china (only technically capable of dealing with that many people and very very unwilling) besides starvation you could also see a massacre at one or both of the borders, never mind the fact that plenty of north koreans would just want the regime back
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42833816]Why? Yes it would be upsetting and idiots would look at it and think "Grr dirty commies" but it's well known that the gulags exist and that people are executed for minor infractions or disloyalty on a daily basis. Having absolute confirmation of it would be something, I guess, but more than enough people have escaped and spread the tales to do away with any of idea of myth regarding the gulags or deaths.[/QUOTE] Now add pictures and video, and fast spread of media via the internet. It would be on-par as the first Soviet and American soldiers entering concentration camps in WW2. Nothing but shock, and utter disgust too the point that they would be demanding the arrest and trial of every member of the North Korean Government/Military, and I don't think China would be to keen to really help any of the North Korean military.
[QUOTE=Xieneus;42832676]Not gonna lie but I enjoyed Die Another Day. It was full of action and the plot was hilarious.[/QUOTE] It's the movie where all the silliness of Bond movies finally caught up and carnevalized the series until Daniel Craig gave Bond his nadgers back.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. South Korea doesn't want it, China doesn't want. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure if it collapsed it wouldn't matter because they really can't get any more oppressed (I'm PURELY speaking within North Korea) literally the only way they could be more oppressed is if Kim decided to Himmler everyone (Even more) but that would require him to actively seek out even MORE innocent people than he already does to destroy.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42831635]Only an idiot would want North Korea to collapse. Can you imagine the humanitarian tragedy if that actually happened?[/QUOTE] If it fell apart there would be war.
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