TotalBiscuit will now talk about microtransactions for just under 25 minutes - General

[video]https://youtu.be/imLjs_HjGGg[/video] I know there's a thread, but this is about all this KF2 stuff so I figured I'd post this outside of the TB thread. As usual he nails it imo.

I dont understand the anger around KF2 microtransactions. They are optional, cosmetic only and you don't need them at all. If Tripwire wants to monitize their game, they can go right ahead. This isn't as bad as Payday 2's microtransaction implementation.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192493]I dont understand the anger around KF2 microtransactions. They are optional, cosmetic only and you don't need them at all. If Tripwire wants to monitize their game, they can go right ahead. This isn't as bad as Payday 2's microtransaction implementation.[/QUOTE] I think a decent deal of the ire stems from the fact that they put microtransactions in a game that's still in Early Access. That, and the whole 'slow updates' bollocks REALLY isn't helping. Granted, microtransactions in paid games is already a slippery business but when your game is still in EA, it adds a new facet to this whole business.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;49192508]I think a decent deal of the ire stems from the fact that they put microtransactions in a game that's still in Early Access. That, and the whole 'slow updates' bollocks REALLY isn't helping. Granted, microtransactions in paid games is already a slippery business but when your game is still in EA, it adds a new facet to this whole business.[/QUOTE] I get that arguement, however we don't know the full story of Tripwires financial situation as TB stated in the video. Maybe they need the extra cash flow, maybe they are greedy basterds, who knows? I just think the anger is a case of people judging too quickly without taking other factors into consideration.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192493]I dont understand the anger around KF2 microtransactions. They are optional, cosmetic only and you don't need them at all. If Tripwire wants to monitize their game, they can go right ahead. This isn't as bad as Payday 2's microtransaction implementation.[/QUOTE] I hate that overly paranoid slippery slope argument but I'm overly paranoid that they're on a slippery slope.

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;49192629]I hate that overly paranoid slippery slope argument but I'm overly paranoid that they're on a slippery slope.[/QUOTE] Slippery slope to what exactly if I may ask?

The only thing that bugs me is the fact that they're doing this before the game is even done. That's just so scummy feeling. Otherwise, I don't care, I'll probably purchase a key or whatever they're doing in the future. I just really hope this means they won't do non-cosmetic purchasable items a la Killing Floor 1.

I have no problem with the microtransactions themselves. They're cosmetic only, which is better than KF1 selling new weapons for actual cash. And the slippery-slope idea of it eventually not being cosmetic-only is baseless. It's only a concern because a completely different developer from a completely different company working on a completely different game recently went back on their word so clearly Tripwire MUST go back on their word soon. The only problem is they rolled this out at a shitty time considering how slow content has been comingg out for the game and its still in early access. This would have best been saved for release.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192493]I dont understand the anger around KF2 microtransactions. They are optional, cosmetic only and you don't need them at all. If Tripwire wants to monitize their game, they can go right ahead. This isn't as bad as Payday 2's microtransaction implementation.[/QUOTE] they already monetized their game by charging $30. i already supported the developer by buying it. why do they get to double dip?

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192719]they already monetized their game by charging $30. i already supported the developer by buying it. why do they get to double dip?[/QUOTE] Why don't they get their "double dip"? It's their game, they can do what they want and what they implemented isn't intrusive to the gameplay and core game in any way, so I'm completely ok with it.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192770]Why don't they get their "double dip"? It's their game, they can do what they want and what they implemented isn't intrusive to the gameplay and core game in any way, so I'm completely ok with it.[/QUOTE] yeah, its their game, so they can also put malware in it. give all their users spyware for that sweet $$$$ because fuck being moral when theres money to be made, right? its the same argument every time "it isnt that big a deal guys, its just a way to support the devs!" but i [B]already[/B] supported the devs. now its their turn to support their game. its time for them to do their part. if they failed to make a game that sold enough copies, then its time for them to close up shop and move on. they arent entitled to my money, and they need to stop acting like they are. they have a job to do and theyre ignoring it, to think of more schemes for money. thats why people are mad. if you think its [I]just[/I] because people dont want to pay for microtransactions, youre missing the point completely.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192802]yeah, its their game, so they can also put malware in it. give all their users spyware for that sweet $$$$ because fuck being moral when theres money to be made, right? its the same argument every time "it isnt that big a deal guys, its just a way to support the devs!" but i [B]already[/B] supported the devs. now its their turn to support their game. its time for them to do their part. if they failed to make a game that sold enough copies, then its time for them to close up shop and move on. they arent entitled to my money, and they need to stop acting like they are. they have a job to do and theyre ignoring it, to think of more schemes for money. thats why people are mad. if you think its [I]just[/I] because people dont want to pay for microtransactions, youre missing the point completely.[/QUOTE] You act like as if all game devs have some massive obligation to you. Truth be told, they could honestly care less about you. Game companies are businesses, and businesses exist to make money (believe it or not). The way game companies make money is through either making new games, charging for expansions/dlc for existing ones, or microtransactions. That's their way to support themselves so they don't go out of business, nobody would want that right? [QUOTE]but i already supported the devs. now its their turn to support their game. [/QUOTE] And they have, it just is slow. Making good content takes time and effort and sometimes it isn't as fast as you want it to be. So deal with it.

if they made a game that people dont want to buy, and they need more money, what the hell made them think people would want to buy microtransactions? they should make a game people [I]will[/I] buy, or make the game f2p, and add microtransactions. doing both is just shitty, and insulting.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192493]I dont understand the anger around KF2 microtransactions. They are optional, cosmetic only and you don't need them at all. If Tripwire wants to monitize their game, they can go right ahead. This isn't as bad as Payday 2's microtransaction implementation.[/QUOTE] The anger all comes from several different factors. The first being that the game is still in early access. This wouldn't be an issue if the game was actually finished, but it's not. Now they stated already that the microtransaction system was handled by back-end developers and didn't halt the development of other content. That's great and all, but they really should be shifting priorities to actually fixing bugs and things of that nature first. The other big issue lies with the lack of updates. Before anyone says anything about content not being added in fast enough and acting entitled, I'm talking about the simple shit like bug fixes and balance patches, not actual new content. Now the last set of balance patches and bug fixes came out with the last big update which was several months ago. The fact is that the classes currently in game are either really overpowered or extremely under powered. There's also the issue where they limited the amount of ammo and weapon drops to make it so players were forced to scrounge money together for the weapons that they actually need to be effective. The last part however brings up a little more worry. In there FAQ they stated that it's only cosmetic items for now. I believe they also stated in that same FAQ that they may do weapons as well depending on how the community reacts. Now KF1 had the weapon packs that came out at the end of it's life cycle that were supposed to be sidegrades to the already existing weapons, but the thing is most of those weapons were actually a lot more useful than the standard weapons and changed the gameplay quite a bit. Now we have already had this happen in KF2 with the zweihander which was supposed to be a sidegrade to the claymore. So it really makes you wonder how long before we go down the sidegrade route yet again, which if introduced during early access, will open up a whole new can of worms.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192818]You act like as if all game devs have some massive obligation to you. Truth be told, they could honestly care less about you. Game companies are businesses, and businesses exist to make money (believe it or not). The way game companies make money is through either making new games, charging for expansions/dlc for existing ones, or microtransactions. That's their way to support themselves so they don't go out of business, nobody would want that right? And they have, it just is slow. Making good content takes time and effort and sometimes it isn't as fast as you want it to be. So deal with it.[/QUOTE] haha okay. "sit down, shut up, and deal with the fact that the devs dont care about you, and only your money" they should really use that when advertising the game. that really makes me want to buy their shitty 5 minute skins lol

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192828]if they made a game that people dont want to buy, and they need more money, what the hell made them think people would want to buy microtransactions? they should make a game people [I]will[/I] buy, or make the game f2p, and add microtransactions. doing both is just shitty, and insulting.[/QUOTE] Who said people don't want it? Maybe people want it but are waiting for more content to come out before getting it. I bought the game and I'm not terribly disappointed with what I got. I knew what I was getting into. [QUOTE]what the hell made them think people would want to buy microtransactions? [/QUOTE] Maybe people want to make themselves look cooler in game? It's the same situation with Dota or CSGO. Why do people buy 300$ digital knives? Because it looks cool. [editline]26th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192851]haha okay. "sit down, shut up, and deal with the fact that the devs dont care about you, and only your money" they should really use that when advertising the game. that really makes me want to buy their shitty 5 minute skins lol[/QUOTE] People have been buying Rise of the Tomb Raider, a game riddled with microtransactions for SINGLE PLAYER. It's obvious Square Enix doesn't care about the consumer yet people still bought it. [editline]26th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192851]haha okay. "sit down, shut up, and deal with the fact that the devs dont care about you, and only your money" they should really use that when advertising the game. that really makes me want to buy their shitty 5 minute skins lol[/QUOTE] Believe it or not, companies will put their financial interests above consumer interests 99.9% of the time so the company can exist in the first place.

so basically youre saying "hey, its cool if they double and even triple dip. you dont get a voice in the matter, because fuck you". love it.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192919]so basically youre saying "hey, its cool if they double and even triple dip. you dont get a voice in the matter, because fuck you". love it.[/QUOTE] I'm basically saying that game companies will put their survival in front of consumer interests. Sorry, but that's the real world for you.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192926]I'm basically saying that game companies will put their survival in front of consumer interests. Sorry, but that's the real world for you.[/QUOTE] i love how youre using the "hey this is how harsh the real world is" argument to try and act condescending. im pretty much just letting you keep going because youre really showing off how easy it is to fuck over consumers, and the double think theyll use to act like its okay. please, keep talking.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192937]i love how youre using the "hey this is how harsh the real world is" argument to try and act condescending. im pretty much just letting you keep going because youre really showing off how easy it is to fuck over consumers, and the double think theyll use to act like its okay. please, keep talking.[/QUOTE] And you're dismissing my arguements as condescending when in actuality, they tell the truth that companies so exist to make profits. I think its funny that you think my points are telling the opposite when they're really not. You can go ahead and interpret how you will but if you don't have any rebuttals for my arguements, then I see no reason to continue debating this.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192919]so basically youre saying "hey, its cool if they double and even triple dip. you dont get a voice in the matter, because fuck you". love it.[/QUOTE] ure acting like u have to use the system or buy skins to be able to play

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192493]I dont understand the anger around KF2 microtransactions. They are optional, cosmetic only and you don't need them at all. If Tripwire wants to monitize their game, they can go right ahead. This isn't as bad as Payday 2's microtransaction implementation.[/QUOTE] Skin sales were in kf1 too, so people expected them. I think its that its still in early access and that development has been unusually slow, thats upsetting people. That said, even as someone who cares very little about cosmetics and cares way too much about l33t skill, it upsets me to see cosmetics locked away behind exhorbant and unreasonable prices especially once you compare prices of a single texture to the entire base game. There are people who love prettying things up and it feels wrong having lived in an age where you'd get a hundred free skins to use just buying the base game, no microtransactions, just expansions. Never again can you have a squad of mechs all skinned differently unless you want to pay more than the base game costs. It sets the game back and somewhat discourages people with certain interests from taking part as cosmetics are always an afterthought way to try to scrounge money. Probably an unpopular opinion.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;49192633]Slippery slope to what exactly if I may ask?[/QUOTE] Toward the end of KF1's life (years after release) they started charging for weapons that had different stats (claimed to be sidegrades but some were just better in many cases) so suddenly having this "economy" sets a potential for bullshit 2.0 taking place. In my case I don't have any issue with them releasing a cosmetic market (as long as it remains just that), just a hiccup in releasing it before the game even has a release date, one might say it was part of their early access schedule or the point of early access is that large changes can occur, but to a lot of "passionate" players it's a lukewarm feeling to wait months for.. An additional way to drop cash in an early access title you've already put trust-money into. Though there is both gameplay content and the economy going in the next update, it still feels icky to some, I'd venture to say those who are *actually* bitching are a vocal minority however, as is often the case. To top it off there's already an icky situation where if you own Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, you get a character skin (no problem here) and a new melee weapon (not a skin), this weapon is arguably the best berserker weapon in the game due to having the largest reach of all melee weapons by a long shot, good to notice that this long reach trait is unique to this melee weapon, so yea, they've set up bad precedents before and this could be a red herring.

[QUOTE=HSF;49192970]ure acting like u have to use the system or buy skins to be able to play[/QUOTE] im acting like i supported the developer, and expect them to make a game haha silly me

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192980]im acting like i supported the developer, and expect them to make a game haha silly me[/QUOTE] what do you mean? the game is obviously in development

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49192980]im acting like i supported the developer, and expect them to make a game haha silly me[/QUOTE] But they are still making it? This update also brings the patriarch and the gunslinger as well as other stuff, so only 3 perks and another boss are missing from their promised release content.

KF1 had some really shitty DLC practices but no one said shit. Rename it "microtransaction" and it's the devil Buzzwords are amazingly powerful.

People fail to realize that they showed off the Zedconomy stuff before they showed off the good stuff. Why would they do that? There's no way they didn't expect backlash.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49193031]people did complain though? the weapon packs were op as shit, as well as overpriced people already complained about the zweihander in kf2 before it even announced micros[/QUOTE] plus KF1 was at least finished

Purely cosmetic markets are a non issue. I get it. 10 years ago skins were in the game anyways. It isn't 10 years ago and it's more work than ever to make a skin these days. I know we want everything for free, but it's cosmetic and it's not gameplay impacting. Will you all flip the fuck out on blizzard when they do this in the spring? No, or at least you'll understand why it's being done. This is the same. [editline]26th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=RichyZ;49193031]people did complain though? the weapon packs were op as shit, as well as overpriced people already complained about the zweihander in kf2 before it even announced micros[/QUOTE] The amount of botching was pretty small. Tripwire was lauded and loved IIRC.