Confederate Flag Displayed, Sparks Dispute In Virginia - Polidicks

[quote] It will be flag versus flag Saturday near the former capital of the Confederacy, as a heritage group promises to hoist a Confederate battle flag up a 50-foot pole along Interstate 95 and opponents will respond with the Stars and Stripes. A group called Virginia Flaggers is scheduled to fly the 10-by-15-foot Confederate flag on private property south of Richmond at a location that has yet to be disclosed. A spokeswoman said details would be released later Friday. Since the group announced its plans in June to raise the flag in Chesterfield County, others said they have gathered nearly 24,000 signatures on an online petition opposing the flag and have urged city residents to fly the American flag. One of them, who sought anonymity, planned to raise a giant flag Saturday afternoon in downtown Richmond. "You can't stop them from raising their flag, but you can drown it out with better speech: an American flag," said Brian Cannon, 31, a Richmond attorney affiliated with United RVA, which has spearheaded the protest. RVA is a common abbreviation for Richmond, Virginia[/quote] [url=http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/28/confederate-flag-dispute-sparks-dueling-rallies-in-virginia/]Source[/url]

afaic anyone who flies that flag should be considered an enemy combatant [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif[/img]

One day, in the future, I truly hope that people will realize that that was never the Confederate flag but just a battleflag :v:

I fly one under Old Glory in my front yard and no one complains. And seriously, Virginia is a former Confederate state. No one thinks I'm a wild racist.

Honor their ancestors? The ones who fought tooth and nail to hang onto not only slavery, but segregation as well? Very honorable. I might add they also ruined the concept of states' rights, by invoking it in the defense of slavery. That gave the Feds all the political cover they needed to extend Federal powers. The country saw the same effect later when the Feds had to step in to enforce civil rights.

Ah, this reminds me of an experience I had. I was riding a bus, and this guy who was sitting next to me showed me an image macro on his phone that had the Confederate flag with text on it saying "North Korea, try fucking with this flag!" because North Korea apparently burns the American flag. I told him they probably don't even know about the Confederacy not to mention it has no value. Next thing I know, I'm getting insults thrown at me by redneck people saying I'm a dumbass if I think it has no value. I live in central Indiana for fucks sake. This isn't Tennessee.

I live in Virginia, and people have them flying all the time, it's not a huge deal really. It doesn't even mean anything nowadays.

[QUOTE=Boaraes;42340037]Ah, this reminds me of an experience I had. I was riding a bus, and this guy who was sitting next to me showed me an image macro on his phone that had the Confederate flag with text on it saying "North Korea, try fucking with this flag!" because North Korea apparently burns the American flag. I told him they probably don't even know about the Confederacy not to mention it has no value. Next thing I know, I'm getting insults thrown at me by redneck people saying I'm a dumbass if I think it has no value. I live in central Indiana for fucks sake. This isn't Tennessee.[/QUOTE] The Confederacy and it's flag is slowly devolving from a southern thing to just a general redneck, rural thing.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;42340033]Honor their ancestors? The ones who fought tooth and nail to hang onto not only slavery, but segregation as well? Very honorable. I might add they also ruined the concept of states' rights, by invoking it in the defense of slavery. That gave the Feds all the political cover they needed to extend Federal powers. The country saw the same effect later when the Feds had to step in to enforce civil rights.[/QUOTE] Most Confederate soldiers were poor yeomen. Officers were primarily slave holders. And Robert E. Lee was well known to be against slavery.

so proud of the people who were willing to kill and do die to defend the concept 'that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition' pathetic

And the Union wasn't perfect either. Irish and Blacks had to serve in segregated units and were not allowed to march in parades. [editline]28th September 2013[/editline] autoooomergeeee

[QUOTE=Moustacheman;42340080]And the Union wasn't perfect either. Irish and Blacks had to serve in segregated units and were not allowed to march in parades. [editline]28th September 2013[/editline] autoooomergeeee[/QUOTE] Union wasn't perfect ergo parading flags of a pro slavery ideal is ok. This isn't a wishy washy thing, it was pro slavery.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;42340033]Honor their ancestors? The ones who fought tooth and nail to hang onto not only slavery, but segregation as well? Very honorable. I might add they also ruined the concept of states' rights, by invoking it in the defense of slavery. That gave the Feds all the political cover they needed to extend Federal powers. The country saw the same effect later when the Feds had to step in to enforce civil rights.[/QUOTE] Kinda the same deal as Germans who served in WWII. Most of them probably didn't really hate Jews and undesirables and etc., they were just young men who saw their land being attacked, and wanted to do something about it. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your ancestors defending the land that you now live on. It's not really an exception with this, plenty of men who served in the Confederate Army were just doing it because they saw the Union burning their towns and fields, same as why plenty of young men joined in with the Union. Either way, the Confederate flag doesn't mean anything nowadays besides "by the way I'm from the south and I like it"

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42340077]so proud of the people who were willing to kill and do die to defend the concept 'that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition' pathetic[/QUOTE] But states rights

My class dissolved into a massive shouting fight over the flying of the rebel flag just last week. Honestly, I don't care if it's representative of an economic or political ideal or societal management, both the political and economic system in the end relied on slavery as the pivotal point for the continued existence of both. Secession itself, no matter what revisionists are trying to say, did rely on the spreading of slavery into new states as a means of maintaining the slave-based agrarian economy and to reduce slave density in existing slave states. That flag is a flag representing a country built on the slave economy, on the landed aristocracy, and on the exploitation and inequality of many people. I hear all day how the flag is a symbol of southern culture, or redneck pride, or what have you, but that's some bullshit. Half the time it's just used under the radar up here in the north as a white pride/supremacy symbol. If you want to fly the flag of your racist, despotic, aristocratic, exploitative, backwards, traitor cultural ancestors, then fine, but don't try to claim it's for some bullshit reason like Southern cultural pride or something. You don't see people in Germany waving the nazi flag nostalgically because it's a symbol of German culture or something. I don't care which system you support, I hate them both, but surely there's some undeniable hypocrisy and offense to flying the rebel flag in America today. [editline]28th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Boaraes;42340037]Ah, this reminds me of an experience I had. I was riding a bus, and this guy who was sitting next to me showed me an image macro on his phone that had the Confederate flag with text on it saying "North Korea, try fucking with this flag!" because North Korea apparently burns the American flag. I told him they probably don't even know about the Confederacy not to mention it has no value. Next thing I know, I'm getting insults thrown at me by redneck people saying I'm a dumbass if I think it has no value. I live in central Indiana for fucks sake. This isn't Tennessee.[/QUOTE] Indiana is pretty culturally southern at parts. They were also really sympathetic to the South in the civil war. I live in Michigan and if you go up north into rural mid-Michigan or northern Michigan, then you get into "rednecks" who fly the flag here and there and have decals of it on their trucks.

Most people who fly that flag don't even know what the fuck they are doing anyway and don't actually know what the flag is supposed to be. Personally I think most people fly the flag more out of resent and consequent pride (The Union did start the civil war, it wasn't the confederacy suddenly going blitzkrieg on the north and actually pretty much the opposite) than because they actually support the old slavery system.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;42340195]Most people who fly that flag don't even know what the fuck they are doing anyway and don't actually know what the flag is supposed to be. Personally I think most people fly the flag more out of resent and consequent pride (The Union did start the civil war, it wasn't the confederacy suddenly going blitzkrieg on the north and actually pretty much the opposite) than because they actually support the old slavery system.[/QUOTE] The South did attack Fort Sumter out of paranoia, and despite the lack of battle casualties, the Union considered it an act of war. To be fair, they both started it.

I've got one hanging in my room, along with an American flag right next to it. I fly both with respect. I don't see any problem with flying one. Sure, people automatically think you're racist but that's just because that's the first thing they think of and deny to say it means anything else.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;42340033]Honor their ancestors? The ones who fought tooth and nail to hang onto not only slavery, but segregation as well? Very honorable. I might add they also ruined the concept of states' rights, by invoking it in the defense of slavery. That gave the Feds all the political cover they needed to extend Federal powers. The country saw the same effect later when the Feds had to step in to enforce civil rights.[/QUOTE] because every confederate soldier was pro slavery and nobody was conscripted to fight whether or not they wanted to right

[QUOTE=Moustacheman;42340295]The South did attack Fort Sumter out of paranoia, and despite the lack of battle casualties, the Union considered it an act of war. To be fair, they both started it.[/QUOTE] The Confederates considered it their territory while the Union considered it not. To the South, they were fighting off an occupation by a foreign army while to the Union they were defending their own territory. [editline]28th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42340315]I've got one hanging in my room, along with an American flag right next to it. I fly both with respect. I don't see any problem with flying one. Sure, people automatically think you're racist but that's just because that's the first thing they think of and deny to say it means anything else.[/QUOTE] I have a Confederate battleflag from the Battle of Antietam that my great great (etc) grandfather fought in. I have it hanging in my room as part of my family history, not really part of the disputed legacy of the South in general.

There's nothing wrong with flying a confederate flag goddamnit. The war of northern aggression wasn't JUST about slavery, and the confederates suffered just as much as the union

Chronologically though it's the North who attacked that one fort first and as such the whole thing was deemed as a war of northern aggression by the south. Which at the time was pretty shocking considering wars before would pretty much always start with two nations amiably slapping each other's face with their glove before proceeding to ram their respective army dicks up each other's bums until someone would drop dead out of exhaustion and the other wins.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42340065]The Confederacy and it's flag is slowly devolving from a southern thing to just a general redneck, rural thing.[/QUOTE] Heritage not hate, etc. It's as if things lose their original meanings and become symbols of idiocy and nonsense, tell me where have I seen this before. History is real easy to bend to your way of thinking.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;42340052]I live in Virginia, and people have them flying all the time, it's not a huge deal really. It doesn't even mean anything nowadays.[/QUOTE] It's great to see that the apologetics and revisionism has seeped into your home state in full!

[QUOTE=BFG9000;42340359]There's nothing wrong with flying a confederate flag goddamnit. The war of northern aggression wasn't JUST about slavery, and the confederates suffered just as much as the union[/QUOTE] The whole thing was terribly handled because of how the war started and how it was handled after the facts. The reunification was pretty badly put together and it ended up widening the gap more than it closed it. [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Mabus;42340370]Heritage not hate, etc. It's as if things lose their original meanings and become symbols of idiocy and nonsense, tell me where have I seen this before. History is real easy to bend to your way of thinking.[/QUOTE] The whole thing was fucked beyond repair in the 20th century when people started getting really fucking racist and the whole segregation thing happened.

[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42340315]I've got one hanging in my room, along with an American flag right next to it. I fly both with respect. I don't see any problem with flying one. Sure, people automatically think you're racist but that's just because that's the first thing they think of and deny to say it means anything else.[/QUOTE] Ha! Respect. You seem to have an interesting definition of such a word! You can get away with pardoning the rebel soldiers, who were deluded and conned by the aristocrats in the South into fighting. Today, there is no excuse for any support of the Confederacy.

war of northern aggression lmfao

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;42340033]Honor their ancestors? The ones who fought tooth and nail to hang onto not only slavery, but segregation as well? Very honorable.[/QUOTE] The Union wasn't exactly fighting against slavery.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42340413]war of northern aggression lmfao[/QUOTE] I prefer "War Between the States" because it's a more accurate description of the war. "Civil war" usually means a rebellion is seeking to overthrow the current government whereas the south was seeking to secede. I dislike 'war of northern aggression' as well because the south isn't innocent at all with the start of the conflict.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42340455] I dislike 'war of northern aggression' as well because the south isn't innocent at all with the start of the conflict.[/QUOTE] The Dixie war of independence.