“Moderate” Muslims destroy [extremist] Wahhabi Mosque in Indonesia.
88 replies, posted
Saw this at SA.
[URL]http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/wahhabi-mosque-destroyed-in-lombok/406829[/URL]
[quote=Jakarta]Jakarta. Violence against worshipers of minority faiths continues to plague Lombok in West Nusa Tenggara as followers of the[B] Islamic Wahhabi sect were attacked[/B] and [B]their mosque at the Peresak village in East Lombok destroyed [/B]on Sunday evening, police said.
Hundreds of locals threw bricks and stones at the house of worship [B]as well as leveling a home belonging to a mosque guardian[/B], police said on Monday.
Locals told police they believed members of the Wahhabi sect living within the Sakra subdistrict were a nuisance for the majority of the locals living in the area.
“The locals do not agree with the presence of those following Wahhabism among them. [B]So they destroyed a Wahhabi mosque[/B] and [B]the home of a guardian[/B]. [B]Both[/B] were [B]destroyed quite extensively[/B],” East Lombok Police deputy chief Comr. Darsono said on Monday, adding that the Sunday violence began at 7 p.m.
The police have made no arrests in connection with the attack, Darsono said.
He added that locals believed the Wahhabis considered themselves to be an exclusive and elite Islamic group, a fact the locals found disturbing.
According to Darsono, residents waited for the Wahhabis to finish their prayers before they attacked.
He identified the mosque guardian whose house was destroyed as Harimin, while a resident of Peresak, identified as Irpan, was allegedly beaten by a Wahhabi follower during the melee.
Hundreds of officers from the East Lombok Police sub-precinct then arrived to restore order, as hundreds of villagers began to vandalize the mosque and remove artifacts and religious documents, Darsono said.
[B]Police then reportedly persuaded the angry crowd to not set fire to the mosque. [/B]
As soon as tensions began to die down, officers formed a police barrier around the mosque and Harimin’s home to conduct an investigation.
“We needed to study the crime scene as best as we could, which was why our first priority was to calm the masses down. We wanted them to calm down first, even though we know what their concerns are when it comes to followers of Wahhabism,” Darsono said, adding that it took over four hours from the first outbreak of violence so the crowd to settle down so that the police could begin their probe of the violence.
Wahhabism is a form of Islam that originated in Saudi Arabia, and is based on the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab, an 18th-century scholar who called for the broader faith to be cleansed of what he considered corruption.
According to the teachings of Wahabbism, in believers must adhere strictly to the original teachings set forth by the Prophet Muhammad.
A number of popular practices must be shunned, including praying to saints and making pilgrimages to tombs and special mosques.
West Nusa Tenggara is no stranger to religious conflicts, particularly involving the persecution of minority faiths.
The West Lombok administration is weighing a plan to relocate members of the Ahmadiyah sect living there to a remote island after their homes were burned in religious attacks.
The group has been criticized for opposing the move.
The West Lombok administration plans to buy the assets left behind by Ahmadiyah after they were forced to leave Gegerung village in 2006, after being driven out by their neighbors.
The administration wants to send the families to Teluk Sepi Island, defending its decision by saying the move is way to avoid a repeat of the earlier violence, when thousands of Muslims burned down the sect members’ homes.
The Ahmadiyah families are living in the Transito refugee shelter in Mataram.
[/quote]
tl;dr: Muslims destroy a Wahhabi Mosque and level the Mosque's guardian's home.
Wahhabism is the extremist branch of Islam you always hear on the news and is the branch [I]nearly[/I] [B]everyone[/B] confuses with mainstream Islam (Sunn’ism, Shiaism e.g).
Quick snippet from Wiki on Wahhabism:[quote]
A study conducted by the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-governmental_organization"]NGO[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House"]reedom House[/URL] found Wahhabi publications in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque"]mosques[/URL] in the United States. These publications included statements that Muslims should not only "always oppose" infidels "in every way", but "hate them for their religion ... for Allah's sake", that [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy"]democracy[/URL] is responsible for all the horrible wars of the 20th century", and that [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam"]Shia[/URL] and certain other non-Wahhabi Muslims were [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam"]infidels[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi#cite_note-33"][34][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi#cite_note-34"][35][/URL][/quote]
Whether you see the people who attacked the mosque as moderates or as extreme as the extremists themselves is entirely up to you. But whenever someone says Muslims don’t take enough action against extremists (besides condemnation) link them to this article.
Islam is a religion of peace. Behead those who disagree.
These guys are even better than Christians as far as weeding out extremists goes. Ever see Mormons go and bust up one of those polygamist ranches?
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=lead_farmer;26640771]Islam is a religion of peace. Behead those who disagree.[/QUOTE]
Islamophobia in the first reply.
This is gonna be fun.
Rid the world of religion: world peace.
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26640807]Rid the world of religion: world peace.[/QUOTE]
Then "Dur religion is bad" post is next. Oh this thread will be fun.
Nice to see a religion weeding out the stereotyped extremists.
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26640807]Rid the world of religion: world peace.[/QUOTE]
There's nothing wrong with religion. Where you have trouble is when people do acts 'In the name of' or they're too pushy with their beliefs and will force them upon others or chastise you for not believing in what they believe in.
[QUOTE=lead_farmer;26640994]There's nothing wrong with religion. Where you have trouble is when people do acts 'In the name of' or they're too pushy with their beliefs and will force them upon others or chastise you for not believing in what they believe in.[/QUOTE]
sorry, there is everything wrong with religion. religion breeds disinformation and denial of hard fact. religion has been the cause for countless wars and religious prejudice in history. it has contributed absolutely nothing except false hope to our world.
I always thought it was ridiculous when people said moderate Muslims don't act out against the the extremists.
[editline]11th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Penguiin;26641459]sorry, there is everything wrong with religion. religion breeds disinformation and denial of hard fact. religion has been the cause for countless wars and religious prejudice in history. it has contributed absolutely nothing except false hope to our world.[/QUOTE]
It's also done a lot of good.
moderate muslims, hats of to you.
:golfclap:
This is what the united states should be trying to do. Get the local populace to love you, so that they take care of the guys that hate you. hearts and minds and all that bs.
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Penguiin;26641459]sorry, there is everything wrong with religion. religion breeds disinformation and denial of hard fact. religion has been the cause for countless wars and religious prejudice in history. it has contributed absolutely nothing except false hope to our world.[/QUOTE]
It would be incorrect to say that religion it's entirely good or bad. Some religious charities do some good. Other times religion totally fucks up, just like any other human organization.
[QUOTE=froztshock;26641565]moderate muslims, hats of to you.
:golfclap:
This is what the united states should be trying to do. Get the local populace to love you, so that they take care of the guys that hate you. hearts and minds and all that bs.[/QUOTE]
That's how we started cleaning up in Iraq. We stopped fighting the moderate militias and convinced them to start fighting against AQI.
this owns but its just going to increase the wahhabi's persecution complex
also part of the reason why they wiped the place out is because indonesia doesn't not like wahhabiism and other stuff being exported from saudi arabia. they think its the saudis trying to gain a foothold on their country
[QUOTE=Prismatex;26641604]That's how we started cleaning up in Iraq. We stopped fighting the moderate militias and convinced them to start fighting against AQI.[/QUOTE]
Well technically the Tribal leaders, subdued by the Taliban, got sick of it and came to the US for support in taking back areas by themselves. A lot of the thing is to keep them happy with the external forces but make sure they know they are not occupiers and the best way to do this is to empower the local forces.
[QUOTE=Ziron;26641637]this owns but its just going to increase the wahhabi's persecution complex
also part of the reason why they wiped the place out is because indonesia doesn't not like wahhabiism and other stuff being exported from saudi arabia. they think its the saudis trying to gain a foothold on their country[/QUOTE]
Well it isn't a persecution complex if they're actively being persecuted.
In the big picture, Religion IS bad. You've got the pope covering up child rape. You've got the israeli's attacking the palestinians and vice versa. You've got the extremists. You've constantly got religions attacking other religions.
Not to mention you've also got things like WBC. Oh and Scientology
Not much good comes from it all.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;26640753]Wahhabism is the extremist branch of Islam you always hear on the news and is the branch [I]nearly[/I] [B]everyone[/B] confuses with mainstream Islam (Sunn’ism, Shiaism e.g). [/QUOTE]
This annoys me. Wahhabism is not an organised sect as it is made out to be, it is comparable to the Protestant reformation and is just as divided as anyone else. Islam became an organised religion and strayed from the Holy texts coming up with their own dogma similar to the Catholic church. Albeit Islam is not as unified as Catholicism but the general idea was fairly similar. Wahabbism and other sects were meant to bring it back to the Qur'an and Hadiths, just like Protestants. They are as divided as anyone else and can take their interpretations as benign or as maliciously as they like. Wahabbism is not a scapegoat, they are just a different sect. They can be extremists yes but it is not at the core of it.
[QUOTE=Penguiin;26641459]sorry, there is everything wrong with religion. religion breeds disinformation and denial of hard fact. religion has been the cause for countless wars and religious prejudice in history. it has contributed absolutely nothing except false hope to our world.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Habsburg;26641493][editline]11th December 2010[/editline]
It's also done a lot of good.[/QUOTE]
There are a bunch of different religions with completely contrasting beliefs. Saying that religion in general is good or bad is not smart.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;26641859]There's a bunch of different religions with completely contrasting beliefs. Saying that religion in general is good or bad is not smart.[/QUOTE]
Religion in general is a rejection of everything man as so far achieved culturally, scientifically, and economically.
[/fantasticfour]
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26641748]In the big picture, Religion IS bad. You've got the pope covering up child rape. You've got the israeli's attacking the palestinians and vice versa. You've got the extremists. You've constantly got religions attacking other religions.
Not to mention you've also got things like WBC.
Not much good comes from it all.[/QUOTE]
scienceworshipping16yearoldknowitall.txt
[QUOTE=Penguiin;26641459]sorry, there is everything wrong with religion. religion breeds disinformation and denial of hard fact. religion has been the cause for countless wars and religious prejudice in history. it has contributed absolutely nothing except false hope to our world.[/QUOTE]
and ignorant people have done much worse things to an exponentially larger number of people
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
oh wait that's you
The idea that bringing people to the realization that we are all equal is better than preaching that some are more equal than others. This saves more lives.
You know what bugs me the most?
People who often want to nix religion often ignore the more peaceful ones like Hinduism or Buddhism (If you think of it like one.)
I don't think the OP's version of the sect as always infidel hating is correct. After all, I believe Saudi Arabia are Wahhabist, and while it is a very socially conservative country, it retains better relations with the West than many of its Middle-Eastern counterparts.
That said, how can we encourage this sort of mob-violence? I find it ridiculous that many FP members in this thread would condemn violence against the WBC, but find mob attacks on this sect laudable.
Doesn't that make the not extremists, extremists, to an extent?
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;26642851]I don't think the OP's version of the sect as always infidel hating is correct. After all, I believe Saudi Arabia are Wahhabist, and while it is a very socially conservative country, it retains better relations with the West than many of its Middle-Eastern counterparts.
That said, how can we encourage this sort of mob-violence? I find it ridiculous that many FP members in this thread would condemn violence against the WBC, but find mob attacks on this sect laudable.[/QUOTE]
Saudi Arabia has oil. Enough said.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;26642851]I don't think the OP's version of the sect as always infidel hating is correct. After all, I believe Saudi Arabia are Wahhabist, and while it is a very socially conservative country, it retains better relations with the West than many of its Middle-Eastern counterparts.[/QUOTE] Yeah I know, it is pretty sad that Saudi’s national religion is Wahhabism, a sect that explicitly promotes violence and hatred against non-Wahhabists and other such condemnable actions. They are the stem of extremism, Osama bin Laden is not a Wahhabi himself, but he’s in a sect closely linked to one. As for the Western tolerance of Saudi, it’s all oil.
[quote]That said, how can we encourage this sort of mob-violence? I find it ridiculous that many FP members in this thread would condemn violence against the WBC, but find mob attacks on this sect laudable.[/quote]
I never said I supported this
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=RayDark;26642935]
Saudi Arabia has oil. Enough said.[/QUOTE]
ninja'd :(
For fucks sake Starpluck, read what I posted. Wahabbism is not exclusively dedicated to killing foreigners, it is just throwing out all the current dogma of Islamic institutions and starting over. It's almost exactly like Protestantism except Islam wasn't unified in the first place.
As for extremism in Wahabbism, it is just like the WBC vs any other American Christian sect. They can interpret the Qur'an and Hadiths as militant puritans or just pick out the bits they like. The only difference between them and other Muslims is they can build whatever they like without the previously established dogma by previous leaders. It is more versatile giving them more ability to be lenient or militant.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;26643002]Yeah I know, it is pretty sad that Saudi’s national religion is Wahhabism, a sect that explicitly promotes violence and hatred against non-Wahhabists and other such condemnable actions. They are the stem of extremism, Osama bin Laden is not a Wahhabi himself, but he’s in a sect closely linked to one. As for the Western tolerance of Saudi, it’s all oil.
I never said I supported this
[/QUOTE]
Who cares why the West tolerates Saudi Arabia - what matters is why Saudi Arabia would tolerate the West, given the alleged nature of their national religion. I, however, am inclined to follow Devodiere's view, because of the afore-mentioned situation, and believe that Wahabbism is more open to different views and ideals. But I'm no expert on Islam.
You don't actually stand for all of FP's members. However, in your specific post, I take irritation with the line:
"But whenever someone says Muslims don’t take enough action against extremists (besides condemnation) link them to this article."
I feel this puts a positive spin on the actions of the mob, portraying it as legitimate reprisal rather than mindless violence. Both groups are Muslim, anyway.
[QUOTE=Prismatex;26640785]Islamophobia in the first reply.
This is gonna be fun.[/QUOTE]
Islamophobia is a made up word, there is no mental disease connected to that of disliking cultists.
...Well, there is "common sense", but, I don't know enough latin to confirm that...
I'm sorry , but a subsection of a religion that hates the other parts of it's own religion is just one of the most ridiculous things i've ever heard.
oh islam you
[QUOTE=Penguiin;26641459]sorry, there is everything wrong with religion. religion breeds disinformation and denial of hard fact. religion has been the cause for countless wars and religious prejudice in history. it has contributed absolutely nothing except false hope to our world.[/QUOTE]
So the universal teachings of "treat others as you want to be treated" mean absolutely nothing then?
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