• Closed book exams are fucking pointless(especially in College)
    171 replies, posted
Exams, we have all had them right? Right? Well, some of us have, those of you that haven't should probably go to school or something. Exams are an excellent way to gauge how much you have retained the knowledge that was presented to you in class, but in some cases they seem to be layered up in traditional bullshit. The worst of these traditions is having it be closed book/closed notes. The whole point of a class and college in general is to train you to be able to not only hold knowledge, but know how to seek it out. That is why many papers tell you that you must have a certain number of sources(that aren't wikipedia). Why you are supposed to read through textbooks and also why teachers will have you go online to find supplementary material. Closed book exams totally defeat this purpose.(for the remainder of the thread I use the term closed book to refer to closed book and closed note exams) Hear me out on this. I am in general a pretty smart person. However, I pay attention to too much stuff at once for a short amount of time to be able to retain important ideas and information sometimes(is that ADD? I have no clue). However, I can be a wiz at seeking information that I need out of a book or text. If you hand me a history book and tell me to find out what the name of some guy who did this thing at this time, I can probably find it within 5 minutes. I can pretty much ctrl + F a book by skimming incredibly fast looking for keywords. This isn't to brag, I think this is the best way to have knowledge. [b]Why should you memorize history when books have it already recorded down for you when you need it?[/b] This isn't a stab at history, this goes for any field. Why should I be forced to memorize the voltage, impedance, and signal:noise ratio of a Shure SM57 when I have documents that I can pull up in a moment's notice with that information when I need it? Sure, it's nice to have the information on hand sometimes(you want to know how to do basic algebra in your head for instance), but for most shit it is just plain unnecessary and from a "data storage" standpoint, you are filling your head with un-needed data when you could be putting in more useful information instead(instead of specifics, why not take the lesson of why something in history happened and the effects?). Open book tests your general knowledge, since most exams generally want you to elaborate on stuff anyways. However, it also tests your ability to sift through piles of unneeded data to find the bit you are looking for as well. Open note serves another function as well, it tests your ability to take notes, and also refines it. You know you fucking suck if you fail an open note exam. This teaches you how to effectively take notes, which goes way beyond college, and goes into any field where you constantly have to keep up with new technology and techniques. I will leave on a low note. Closed book exams are BULLSHIT! [img]http://www.casinosnob.com/archives/pictures/Penn_and_Teller.jpg[/img]
I just don't like timed exams, if I was actually able to finish them, easy A
Well as you said, its a good way to show what you've learned and studied. I like having sources to study during exams but not having a book to go through. In general I don't like exams because they literally shit me up, anxiety really wore down my a level exam results. I prefer coursework and essays.
What are you going to do when you need knowledge, and you don't have anything to look it up from? That's what closed book exams are for, you need to learn how to retain knowledge, when all information sources are all unavailable.
They aren't pointless. There are things that they want you to learn in the class besides how to read a book.
I think we should just throw out all exams and grading altogether. And rate students either rainbows,unicorns, fairies or candy. It's much better and does not stress the the child to preform well. T'was a joke.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27407219]Hear me out on this. I am in general a pretty smart person. However, I pay attention to too much stuff at once for a short amount of time to be able to retain important ideas and information sometimes(is that ADD? I have no clue). [B]However, I can be a wiz at seeking information that I need out of a book or text.[/B] If you hand me a history book and tell me to find out what the name of some guy who did this thing at this time, I can probably find it within 5 minutes. I can pretty much ctrl + F a book by skimming incredibly fast looking for keywords. This isn't to brag, [B]I think this is the best way to have knowledge.[/B][/QUOTE] Best way to have knowledge is to not have it at all, huh?
It's just easier to write questions for a closed-book exam.
I would just like to remind a few people that exams are not a measure of intelligence, but memory. I have friends who can tell me the dates that x did y in wwz, but they cannot tell me why, because all they've learned to do is memorize this stuff. I, on the other hand, have explained to the teacher why certain circumstances caused x to do y. The only thing I can't do is list the dates in fucking numerical order backwards, and my grades suffer for it. And the reason being is that I can only concentrate on stuff I like. I like hearing about how apartheid was defeated in South Africa, I like learning about WW2/1/Vietnam bla. What I don't like is, 'Okay so what date did x happen'.
[QUOTE=RayDark;27407322]I would just like to remind a few people that exams are not a measure of intelligence, but memory.[/QUOTE] You must have really shitty teachers, then.
[QUOTE=fenwick;27407297]They aren't pointless. There are things that they want you to learn in the class besides how to read a book.[/QUOTE] Like I said, there is important information to retain, but the point of the class is to give you the fundamentals to be able to build on through practice or study. [QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;27407290]What are you going to do when you need knowledge, and you don't have anything to look it up from? That's what closed book exams are for, you need to learn how to retain knowledge, when all information sources are all unavailable.[/QUOTE] With modern cell phones and laptops there should [b]never[/b] be a time in your professional life when you are unable to near instantly grab relevant data. By the way, stuff like doctors and lawyers don't count, since they sort of have to remember a shit ton of information for their professional life.
[QUOTE=RayDark;27407322]I would just like to remind a few people that exams are not a measure of intelligence, but memory.[/QUOTE] That depends on the subject. A history exam that just asks you to re-tell historical events are a test of memory. But an exam that ask you to discuss the cause of said event won't be a test of memory but more of a test of analytical skills
The point isn't to learn the material, the point is to judge your ability to learn it.
[QUOTE=fenwick;27407318]Best way to have knowledge is to not have it at all, huh?[/QUOTE] I've got more than a lifetime's worth of knowledge on my laptop and bookshelf that I can retrieve in the blink of an eye. Why the fuck should I cram it in my brain when I could be putting more useful things in there?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27407334]By the way, stuff like doctors and lawyers don't count, since they sort of have to remember a shit ton of information for their professional life.[/QUOTE] You realize that any career is going to require you to remember things off-hand, right? "Oh hold on, let me go look up Ohm's Law" You guys are just lazy and don't feel like studying for your exams. I agree, there's a point where rote memorization becomes tedious, like memorizing many specific dates and things like that, but you can't have every exam be completely open-book.
any retard can open a book, read it, then regurgitate the words on a piece of paper with a pen so yeah im with you there
[QUOTE=fenwick;27407353]You realize that any career is going to require you to remember things off-hand, right? "Oh hold on, let me go look up Ohm's Law"[/QUOTE] Not near to that extent, and it is generally retained in an applicable way(you remember Ohm's Law because you have used it a bunch before, for instance). The bottom line is that the information you need to retain will be gained through real world experience with said information. I have had times where I have taken an exam and the next day I forgot the knowledge when I actually needed it, and then after I look it up and use it I remember it for as long as needed.
Okay, let's see if we can resolve this, why not, instead of having tests for Law, for instance, the educators set up a Law scenario. And you're graded on your real performance. That way you memorize important things and why.
You think it's useless because you suck at it.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27407384]Not near to that extent, and it is generally retained in an applicable way(you remember Ohm's Law because you have used it a bunch before, for instance). The bottom line is that the information you need to retain will be gained through real world experience with said information. I have had times where I have taken an exam and the next day I forgot the knowledge when I actually needed it, and then after I look it up and use it I remember it for as long as needed.[/QUOTE] It's not real-world experience, I learned it from looking at it for a little while in a book, and later going back to it and remembering it again. I memorized it. And it's important that you be able to memorize applicable information about a subject, at least to a certain extent. You can't have open book exams all of the time.
I gotta agree with you especially on closed note tests "Here class, take down these five pages of notes or so, so you can study for one test and never use them again, and if you can't memorize any of this shit? you're fucked."
[QUOTE=halflambada;27407441]"Here class, take down these five pages of notes or so, so you can study for one test and never use them again, and if you can't memorize any of this shit? you're fucked."[/QUOTE] If that's what you think of every subject, why go to school, college or university?
[QUOTE=thereisno131;27407415]You think it's useless because you suck at it.[/QUOTE] because you wake up everyday and drive down the street thinking of ancient history
It's for two reasons. One is to act like a filter to see who is worthy enough to pass on. If you don't have a good enough active memory, then you're not good enough for the college. Sucks dick, but that's how it works. Second is because there are some situations where you're going to need to know as much as possible right up front without the use of any aid device, especially if your field is medicine.
[QUOTE=Moose;27407450]because you wake up everyday and drive down the street thinking of ancient history[/QUOTE] I've thought about history while driving before.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;27407446]If that's what you think of every subject, why go to school, college or university?[/QUOTE] In order to get a career that doesn't involve flipping burgers or working construction the rest of your life.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27407479]In order to get a career that doesn't involve flipping burgers or working construction the rest of your life.[/QUOTE] Are you saying that as in it's an annoyance in the way of getting a decent career, or are you saying it's a place for growth in knowledge?
Open book tests test your ability to copy something out of a book. The whole point of an exam is to test your personal knowledge and capability at a subject. It wouldn't be much use in a maths test where you could just look up in a book the appropriate method for each question, and you wouldn't be a very efficient mathematician if you had to do so. You wouldn't know anything at all, you'd just be copying out of a book, and anybody with half a brain can do that. So no, they're not "fucking pointless". they seperate out the best from the rest: those with an interest or skill in a subject. Not to mention the whole point of getting a qualification is that the person who has it is trained and skilled in that subject area, not a human google search. Not only that, but a large portion of scientific and mathematical studies are entirely pointless if you're just following methods in a book, because those areas are focused on research and discovery, and how-to-discover something isn't going to laid out in a book, rather, one's intuitive application of methods that they know and understand is going to discover something. Open book exams don't prove you know anything about the subject, or to put it bluntly, that you have no understanding of the subject.
I used to do well on these sort of things. I read what I needed to read the night before, memorised it word for word. Then forgot about it after the exam. I don't even remember the names of the subjects I studied in school. What a waste of time. At least I got alright grades though right?
If you did Engineering they would be more useful for example maths, yes you have the books and materials but some times you need to apply maths to a situation more quickly.
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