Nicola Sturgeon to resume drive for Scottish independence - Polidicks

SNP riding high on unprecedented levels of support before May’s Scottish elections will launch new initiative in the summer [t]http://i.imgur.com/g26SrYM.jpg[/t] [quote]Nicola Sturgeon will spearhead a renewed drive to build support for Scottish independence this summer, pledging to turn the 45% who voted to leave the UK in the 2014 referendum into “a strong and positive majority”. To a rapturous reception from about 3,000 delegates at the Scottish National party’s spring conference in Glasgow on Saturday afternoon, the party leader and first minister cautioned supporters: “We will not achieve our dream of independence just by wishing that the outcome of the referendum had been different – or wishing that we could do it all again next week.” With just seven weeks to go before May’s Scottish parliament elections, she said: “We will achieve independence only when we persuade a majority of our fellow citizens that it is the best future for our country.”[/quote] Read more: [url]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/12/nicola-sturgeon-snp-to-resume-drive-for-scottish-independence[/url]

Or they could mobilize their electorate to stop the brexit, which seems like a more reasonable thing to do

It's funny that she thinks another referendum will be allowed when her last bid failed less than two years ago.

I guess she's going to use the possibility of us leaving the EU as a drive for independence, since EU support is way higher in Scotland than the rest of the UK.

The only way I can really see this happening is if the UK pulls out of the EU

I have a feeling a lot of it will be driven on feelings of hypocrisy from Westminster. There's been a lot of "We don't want people in another country telling us how to run ours" being thrown about. Not to mention a lot of "Our economy will become stronger" without much backup evidence, which, as we all know, was a common argument during the Indy Ref.

[QUOTE=dookster;49919612]I have a feeling a lot of it will be driven on feelings of hypocrisy from Westminster. There's been a lot of "We don't want people in another country telling us how to run ours" being thrown about. Not to mention a lot of "Our economy will become stronger" without much backup evidence, which, as we all know, was a common argument during the Indy Ref.[/QUOTE] I voted Yes, but the reasoning for some people's voting was really dire. "Because I hate the Tories" "Because I hate England" and so on were pretty popular reasons I heard from my area, mostly from the 16/17 year old voters though. Some people who put up signs on the farms near my old home, but they were defaced quite quickly with stuff like 'Nazi scum' and 'traitor'. Of course not all the Yes voters were like this and the majority were very reasonable people I am sure, but I can see why it might look like that to some non-Scots. The economy argument doesn't and still doesn't hold much water with me. I voted on the assumption that the economy was going to be rough for a while if we went independent, I never really bought into the 'oil and tourism will save us!' rubbish.

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;49919671]I voted Yes, but the reasoning for some people's voting was really dire. "Because I hate the Tories" "Because I hate England" and so on were pretty popular reasons I heard from my area, mostly from the 16/17 year old voters though. Some people who put up signs on the farms near my old home, but they were defaced quite quickly with stuff like 'Nazi scum' and 'traitor'. Of course not all the Yes voters were like this and the majority were very reasonable people I am sure, but I can see why it might look like that to some non-Scots. The economy argument doesn't and still doesn't hold much water with me. I voted on the assumption that the economy was going to be rough for a while if we went independent, I never really bought into the 'oil and tourism will save us!' rubbish.[/QUOTE] I was living in Sussex at the time, so wasn't able to vote but I'm well aware not everyone voted on dumb reasoning like "They hate the English". Had I been able to, I'd have likely voted Yes myself, but I was pretty torn on the matter for a long time. Even so, it's a little annoying hearing MPs use bland reasoning like "We don't want Brussels telling us how to run the country" when they were shooting people down over near exact same reasoning during the IndyRef.

All the more reason to stay in the EU then, I don't like to entertain the idea of living outside of Britain.

For god sake if she gets away with this having an election every 2 years until she gets her result rubbish it'll be such an insult to democracy in Britain. The SNP already hold disproportionate power in our government can they not do this cheap bullshit tactic to get their agenda through just because they need the fucking attention; it's ridiculous that they're trying to keep pushing this so they can manipulate the polls to get a break.

[QUOTE=Purple Gecko;49921133]For god sake if she gets away with this having an election every 2 years until she gets her result rubbish it'll be such an insult to democracy in Britain. The SNP already hold disproportionate power in our government can they not do this cheap bullshit tactic to get their agenda through just because they need the fucking attention; it's ridiculous that they're trying to keep pushing this so they can manipulate the polls to get a break.[/QUOTE] Will it be an insult to democracy in Britain? They voted overwhelmingly to flip the bird to Westminster last general election, with the SNP taking almost every single seat in Scotland. Even at the time of the Indy Ref it was only by a narrow percentage of around 10% that they voted to stay in the union. By the time the tories have finished with cuts by the next general election, the Scots are going to be finished with the UK. I don't think the Scots have forgotten David Cameron's pledge to give Scotland more autonomy, and I've heard very little about him sorting that out since then. They've always had a strong cultural identity that distances them from the English, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that it pissed them off mightily in previous elections when Scotland could vote whatever and still be politically irrelevant, it just doesn't take a genius to figure out that English votes matter far more to politicians than Scottish, Welsh or Irish votes.

[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;49921285]Will it be an insult to democracy in Britain? They voted overwhelmingly to flip the bird to Westminster last general election, with the SNP taking almost every single seat in Scotland. Even at the time of the Indy Ref it was only by a narrow percentage of around 10% that they voted to stay in the union. By the time the tories have finished with cuts by the next general election, the Scots are going to be finished with the UK. I don't think the Scots have forgotten David Cameron's pledge to give Scotland more autonomy, and I've heard very little about him sorting that out since then. They've always had a strong cultural identity that distances them from the English, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that it pissed them off mightily in previous elections when Scotland could vote whatever and still be politically irrelevant, it just doesn't take a genius to figure out that English votes matter far more to politicians than Scottish, Welsh or Irish votes.[/QUOTE] My point isn't on whether or not it's right to have the referendum. It's that so shortly after the last one they are forcing the issue again. It seems like they want to just keep pushing the issue until they get their way by preying on voter apathy as they have the advantage of SNP campaigning.

Alba gu bràth

[QUOTE=Lium;49919541]It's funny that she thinks another referendum will be allowed when her last bid failed less than two years ago.[/QUOTE] I would say that being forced to leave the EU after deciding to stay in the UK is sort of a reasonable grounds for it, but I'm not as versed in the history of the brexit stuff, it just seems like this has popped up after the Scottish thing

[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;49921285]I don't think the Scots have forgotten David Cameron's pledge to give Scotland more autonomy, and I've heard very little about him sorting that out since then.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_Bill_2015%E2%80%9316[/url]

Maybe she realized 16 years old vote limit wasn't low enough. Gotta try lower again

[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;49921285]Will it be an insult to democracy in Britain? They voted overwhelmingly to flip the bird to Westminster last general election, with the SNP taking almost every single seat in Scotland. Even at the time of the Indy Ref it was only by a narrow percentage of around 10% that they voted to stay in the union. By the time the tories have finished with cuts by the next general election, the Scots are going to be finished with the UK. I don't think the Scots have forgotten David Cameron's pledge to give Scotland more autonomy, and I've heard very little about him sorting that out since then. They've always had a strong cultural identity that distances them from the English, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that it pissed them off mightily in previous elections when Scotland could vote whatever and still be politically irrelevant, it just doesn't take a genius to figure out that English votes matter far more to politicians than Scottish, Welsh or Irish votes.[/QUOTE] but we're getting more autonomy anyways, and we already have a lot regardless it'd be a dreadful idea for us to leave - i know i'd leave scotland if scotland left britain.

How are they going to get around the even greater difficulty of making an economic argument for independence now that oil revenues are fucked? [editline]13th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;49919468]Or they could mobilize their electorate to stop the brexit, which seems like a more reasonable thing to do[/QUOTE] She said she will focus on that first [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35788489[/url] [quote]The new strategy will begin in the summer, after May's Holyrood election and June's EU referendum.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;49919671]I voted Yes, but the reasoning for some people's voting was really dire. "Because I hate the Tories" "Because I hate England" and so on were pretty popular reasons I heard from my area, mostly from the 16/17 year old voters though. Some people who put up signs on the farms near my old home, but they were defaced quite quickly with stuff like 'Nazi scum' and 'traitor'. Of course not all the Yes voters were like this and the majority were very reasonable people I am sure, but I can see why it might look like that to some non-Scots. The economy argument doesn't and still doesn't hold much water with me. I voted on the assumption that the economy was going to be rough for a while if we went independent, I never really bought into the 'oil and tourism will save us!' rubbish.[/QUOTE] I would like to see the Yes Vote results without the 16-17 year old's in it, is there a figure?

[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;49921285]Will it be an insult to democracy in Britain? They voted overwhelmingly to flip the bird to Westminster last general election, with the SNP taking almost every single seat in Scotland. Even at the time of the Indy Ref it was only by a narrow percentage of around 10% that they voted to stay in the union. By the time the tories have finished with cuts by the next general election, the Scots are going to be finished with the UK. I don't think the Scots have forgotten David Cameron's pledge to give Scotland more autonomy, and I've heard very little about him sorting that out since then. They've always had a strong cultural identity that distances them from the English, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that it pissed them off mightily in previous elections when Scotland could vote whatever and still be politically irrelevant, it just doesn't take a genius to figure out that English votes matter far more to politicians than Scottish, Welsh or Irish votes.[/QUOTE] Well the SNP were probably the biggest winners from fptp because they got half the vote and 56/59 seats in Scotland. 50% is a lot but it was skewed by our ridiculous voting system. They did also call it a once in a generation referendum, and unless Scotland has deteriorated since I last checked, 2 years is not a generation.

This is to be expected if the EU referendum produces a 'NO' vote.

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;49919671]I voted Yes, but the reasoning for some people's voting was really dire. "Because I hate the Tories" "Because I hate England" and so on were pretty popular reasons I heard from my area, mostly from the 16/17 year old voters though. Some people who put up signs on the farms near my old home, but they were defaced quite quickly with stuff like 'Nazi scum' and 'traitor'. Of course not all the Yes voters were like this and the majority were very reasonable people I am sure, but I can see why it might look like that to some non-Scots. The economy argument doesn't and still doesn't hold much water with me. I voted on the assumption that the economy was going to be rough for a while if we went independent, I never really bought into the 'oil and tourism will save us!' rubbish.[/QUOTE] To be fair, I think "I hate the Tories" is actually quite a reasonable argument. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to have nearly your entire country vote one way and receive a government dominated by the opposite because a country with a denser population voted for them. Doesn't help that the Conservatives are the most aristocratic, culturally English party available.

god im so sick of the leather faced bitch i hope they do leave now

[QUOTE=Lium;49919541]It's funny that she thinks another referendum will be allowed when her last bid failed less than two years ago.[/QUOTE] I live in England and: But leaving the EU does significantly impact on Scotland's government and its people, and the people of Scotland should be able to decide on wether or not that changes their decision; a lot of Better Together's arguments were based around the EU. I also think leaving the EU should also trigger a question on Northern Ireland [I]and[/I] be good enough cause for a general election but whatever

[QUOTE=shozamar;49924593]To be fair, I think "I hate the Tories" is actually quite a reasonable argument. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to have nearly your entire country vote one way and receive a government dominated by the opposite because a country with a denser population voted for them. Doesn't help that the Conservatives are the most aristocratic, culturally English party available.[/QUOTE] It's not a good argument though, in a democracy there will always be areas that do not get the government they want. In 2005, the most of Southern England voted Conservative yet got a Labour government because of Labour's Scottish seats. In 2015, most of London voted Labour yet got a Conservative government. Northern Ireland never votes Labour or Conservative yet they always get dominated by the UK parties. The "I hate the Tories" argument is stupid - you don't see Manchester or London trying to declare independence because they didn't get the party their city voted for. There are valid arguments for independence - "I hate the Tories" is not one of them.

can we not compare Manchester/London to the entirety of Scotland? One is a city the other is an entire country, so ofc you don't see them trying to claim independence. but to be fair considering London has more people than all of Scotland I wouldn't be surprised if they figured they could be their own country.

[QUOTE=Mythman;49925349]It's not a good argument though, in a democracy there will always be areas that do not get the government they want. In 2005, the most of Southern England voted Conservative yet got a Labour government because of Labour's Scottish seats. In 2015, most of London voted Labour yet got a Conservative government. Northern Ireland never votes Labour or Conservative yet they always get dominated by the UK parties. The "I hate the Tories" argument is stupid - you don't see Manchester or London trying to declare independence because they didn't get the party their city voted for. There are valid arguments for independence - "I hate the Tories" is not one of them.[/QUOTE] Scotland is literally another country and has been defined as such for hundreds of years. There are differences in culture and law that go way beyond the differences between say, Yorkshire and London. They and the rest of the world see them as a distinct society. The same is true of Northern Ireland and was true of the Republic of Ireland until they got sick of it and left the UK. Imagine if the SNP got elected by majority in the UK government because Scotland had a freak population surge.

[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;49925869]can we not compare Manchester/London to the entirety of Scotland? One is a city the other is an entire country, so ofc you don't see them trying to claim independence. but to be fair considering London has more people than all of Scotland I wouldn't be surprised if they figured they could be their own country.[/QUOTE] Why doesn't Northern England declare independence from Southern England then? Northern England is pretty distinct and populated.

[QUOTE=shozamar;49926033]Scotland is literally another country and has been defined as such for hundreds of years. There are differences in culture and law that go way beyond the differences between say, Yorkshire and London. They and the rest of the world see them as a distinct society. The same is true of Northern Ireland and was true of the Republic of Ireland until they got sick of it and left the UK. Imagine if the SNP got elected by majority in the UK government because Scotland had a freak population surge.[/QUOTE] With all due respect, why does Scotland having a national identity matter when it comes to a democratic deficit? Very few people within Cornwall argued for Independence when Labour was in government, despite the fact that for most of that time Labour had no MPs in Cornwall.

[QUOTE=shozamar;49926033]Scotland is literally another country and has been defined as such for hundreds of years. There are differences in culture and law that go way beyond the differences between say, Yorkshire and London. They and the rest of the world see them as a distinct society. The same is true of Northern Ireland and was true of the Republic of Ireland until they got sick of it and left the UK. Imagine if the SNP got elected by majority in the UK government because Scotland had a freak population surge.[/QUOTE] If the SNP got elected then it would be fine because that's how democracy works - the party who the majority of the people support wins. Scotland has it's own history, laws, traditions and has been it's own country for a fair bit of its history - if you want to argue that Scotland is a nation and should be independent, fine. But Scotland has been part of the State of The United Kingdom for over 300 years now, so that's 300 years of shared history, shared culture and shared law (even longer if you consider the union of the crowns). Germany has not even been united for 300 years - yet you do not get Bavaria (a conservative state) trying to declare independence based on the fact that a left-wing government is voted into power.