Obamacare Architect: Lack of Transparency Was Key Because ‘Stupidity Of The American Voter’ Would Ha - Polidicks

[quote]Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber said that lack of transparency was a major part of getting Obamacare passed because “the stupidity of the American voter” would have killed the law if more people knew what was in it. Gruber, the MIT professor who served as a technical consultant to the Obama administration during Obamacare’s design, also made clear during a panel quietly captured on video that the individual mandate, which was only upheld by the Supreme Court because it was a tax, was not actually a tax. “This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed… Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass… Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.”[/quote] [url=http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/09/obamacare-architect-lack-of-transparency-was-key-because-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-would-have-killed-obamacare/]Source[/url]

Agreed. There was too much to cover without there being controversy.

Well he's not wrong, we'll vote against our best interests because a man on TV said it would be in our best interests to do so.

Apparently that didn't work either because the majority of Americans seems to have taken a large bite out of the Republican propaganda sandwich and think that it's some huge failure that's ruining businesses and oppressing people.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46459678]Maybe if we'd actually taken the time to write a bill that wasn't a steaming pile of shit less people would hold issue with it. The dems held both houses, they could have EASILY passed what they wanted to pass, they pissed it away and it's no wonder they lost out in the congressional races.[/QUOTE] It was good in it's first incarnation, but they stripped it down and gutted it and now we have this mess.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46459678]Maybe if we'd actually taken the time to write a bill that wasn't a steaming pile of shit less people would hold issue with it. The dems held both houses, they could have EASILY passed what they wanted to pass, they pissed it away and it's no wonder they lost out in the congressional races.[/QUOTE] Honestly the first draft of the aca (pre republican or democrat bloatervention) was only like a hundred pages, but to get it passed they had to try to get every vote they could and the result was hundreds of pages of shit

Tbh they should have just brute-forced the original bill through so we can have national healthcare.

What's interesting from a historical perspective is that in the 80s,90s and early 2000s the republicans actually did support several healthcare bills with individual insurance mandates and even some with employer mandates, until the democrats wanted it then it was unconstitutional

Right now, "Americans are stupid" is a pretty safe bet to make.

[QUOTE]would have killed the law if more people knew what was in it. [/QUOTE] That doesn't sound good at all.

[QUOTE=Sally;46460658]That doesn't sound good at all.[/QUOTE] That's because some Americans are fucking scared of their own government. Every anti-net neutrality argument I've read boils down to the fact that government monopolies are a bad thing, but nationalized internet and net neutrality aren't the same thing. I feel like some Americans group them together because they are just frightened of their government in general.

It doesn't, but think about what happened during the elections. A lot of Republican voters were convinced that the Canadian system was shit, (When in reality it's actually pretty great) scare tactics were used to blast the proposed Affordable Care Act, and people just ate that shit up. And congress. Oh, congress. A big portion of the leaders the American people put in power would sell all your souls for a few extra cents in their pockets.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;46460675]That's because some Americans are fucking scared of their own government. Every anti-net neutrality argument I've read boils down to the fact that government monopolies are a bad thing, but nationalized internet and net neutrality aren't the same thing. I feel like some Americans group them together because they are just frightened of their government in general.[/QUOTE] We don't trust our government at all, and they justify their actions and our mistrust as us just being stupid.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;46460695]We don't trust our government at all, and they justify their actions and our mistrust as us just being stupid.[/QUOTE] What do you mean?

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;46460675]That's because some Americans are fucking scared of their own government. Every anti-net neutrality argument I've read boils down to the fact that government monopolies are a bad thing, but nationalized internet and net neutrality aren't the same thing. I feel like some Americans group them together because they are just frightened of their government in general.[/QUOTE] That doesn't justify the reasoning to hide the truth.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;46460695]We don't trust our government at all, and they justify their actions and our mistrust as us just being stupid.[/QUOTE] Mistrust of your government is well-earned, though. they're constantly fucking everyone up the ass. Those who know have no choice but to deal with it, but there are those who love it because they're told to love it. The blanket surveillance was proof perfect of that, especially since average citizens were actually fucking defending it a few weeks later. Calling the guy who essentially revealed that they were having their 4th amendment rights violated in secret and the violation legitimized by secret courts a terrorist and a traitor. And the thing is.... now it can never change. The corporations with the money and power - Military contractors primarily - are too big to allow to die, much like the banks. So when a fraction of your yearly military budget would give you nationalized healthcare to rival that of Canada, and just a little bit more would increase the quality of social services and education across the USA, it sucks when you know it's never going to happen. Not like my government's perfect either. We're just not getting fucked quite as hard, and we're able to put a little more faith in the federal govt. So Americans mistrust their government, their government plays dirty, and the cycle continues forever.

That's the God damn truth, and it hurts.

Transparency is always the enemy of efficiency, because the idiots see only what they want and giving them more to see will only result in them finding more reasons to hold on to their idiocy, no matter how much of what you're giving them contradicts them.

So I've always wondered- what do anti-nationalised healthcare Americans think of other countries' healthcare systems? I mean, it's pretty much the entire developed world that has it nowadays, so... What, do they just think we're all wrong?

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46460879]So I've always wondered- what do anti-nationalised healthcare Americans think of other countries' healthcare systems? I mean, it's pretty much the entire developed world that has it nowadays, so... What, do they just think we're all wrong?[/QUOTE] No, we're all communists obviously.

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46460879]So I've always wondered- what do anti-nationalised healthcare Americans think of other countries' healthcare systems? I mean, it's pretty much the entire developed world that has it nowadays, so... What, do they just think we're all wrong?[/QUOTE] They're either unaware or think that nationalized systems are some huge failure with massive taxes and waiting times (which is of course not based on any factual reality)

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;46460675]That's because some Americans are fucking scared of their own government. Every anti-net neutrality argument I've read boils down to the fact that government monopolies are a bad thing, but nationalized internet and net neutrality aren't the same thing. I feel like some Americans group them together because they are just frightened of their government in general.[/QUOTE] Are you telling me there [I]isn't[/I] a reason to be afraid of my own government? A government that can send me to prison for [I]years[/I] just for having some pot on me or illegally invade a foreign country under false reasons?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46461423]Are you telling me there [I]isn't[/I] a reason to be afraid of my own government? A government that can send me to prison for [I]years[/I] just for having some pot on me or illegally invade a foreign country under false reasons?[/QUOTE] I just think it's something that Americans are kind of unique in, in the west. Most western countries have citizens that are angry with their governments, but aren't actively afraid of their governments. A lot of governments have stupid powers, but some Americans seems to think that the government is always coming after them, and it seems to be a much larger portion of the population.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;46461437]I just think it's something that Americans are kind of unique in, in the west. Most western countries have citizens that are angry with their governments, but aren't actively afraid of their governments. A lot of governments have stupid powers, but some Americans seems to think that the government is always coming after them, and it seems to be a much larger portion of the population.[/QUOTE]Clearly you've never had your FOIA request about [i]yourself[/i] flatly denied, indicating that you are currently a part of "an active investigation."

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;46461437]I just think it's something that Americans are kind of unique in, in the west. Most western countries have citizens that are angry with their governments, but aren't actively afraid of their governments. A lot of governments have stupid powers, but some Americans seems to think that the government is always coming after them, and it seems to be a much larger portion of the population.[/QUOTE] Our country has done some really sketchy, shady shit and honestly I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat to bed or keeping a shotgun under the pillow but I don't trust our government nor do I approve of most of the things it's done.

If you can't pass a bill transparently because it would get killed if people truly knew what was in it, then you shouldn't be putting up the bill. I don't care how "uninformed" a person is, they are still a citizen of this country and their opinion is just as valid. Your job is to inform the uninformed, not pull tricks to pass it around them.

I'd rather stay uninsured than pay into this garbage

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46459642]all It did was put us in the pocket of the insurance companies.[/QUOTE] And the insurance companies STILL bitched about it.

I wonder if Democrats would still be control of Senate if Obamacare didn't exist.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;46461948]I'd rather stay uninsured than pay into this garbage[/QUOTE] Would you be saying that if you broke your arm and needed a cast? I'm pretty sure if you were uninsured you would have to pay a load of money to get it sorted out. Here in the UK I can break my arm and I won't be slapped with a surprise bill for £1,000 of doctor fees. Yes I pay taxes but the proportion of that going towards healthcare and national insurance is something like £20. 64 million people paying £20 a month for a year gives you a budget of £15,360,000,000. That seems like a pretty good pot of money even without offsets like prescription contributions and Government grants.