Washington State Gambling Commission: Valve, Stop Skin Gambling - Polidicks

[url]http://www.esportsbettingreport.com/washington-state-valve-skin-betting/[/url] [QUOTE]The Washington State Gambling Commission has ordered game maker Valve Corporation to stop the transfer of skins via its Steam API, it announced in a release Wednesday. The commission sent a letter to Valve co-founder Gabe Newell on Sept. 27 ordering the company to cease and desist offering the popular form of virtual currency gambling related to its game, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. “‘Skins’ continue to be used as consideration for illegal gambling activities on third party websites,” the WSGC said in Wednesday’s release. “The Gambling Commission expects Valve to take whatever actions are necessary to stop third party websites from using ‘skins’ for gambling through its Steam Platform system, including preventing these sites from using their accounts and ‘bots’ to facilitate gambling transactions.” The Bellevue, Wash.-based video game company has until Oct. 14 to respond to the letter and explain how it is in full compliance with Washington state’s gambling laws. If it does not comply, the WSGC letter said, Valve could risk the seizure and forfeiture of property used to conduct illegal activities, forfeiture of its corporate charter, as well as criminal charges. The announcement came on the same day that a District Court for the Western District of Washington state granted a skin gambling website’s motion to dismiss a complaint related to a class-action lawsuit involving it and Valve aiding and abetting skin gambling.[/QUOTE] potential Rip trading

I don't really understand the point of gambling regulations, can someone explain why the government cares about people betting money on skins (other than them missing out on the revenue)?

[QUOTE=srobins;51158018]I don't really understand the point of gambling regulations, can someone explain why the government cares about people betting money on skins (other than them missing out on the revenue)?[/QUOTE] Because people expect the government to babysit them but not only that the government can't sit back and let their people drain their pockets on machines. Regulation isnt super strict, its mostly making sure that people are aware of the dangers of gambling to much and providing hotline assistance to those in the pits

[QUOTE=srobins;51158018]I don't really understand the point of gambling regulations, can someone explain why the government cares about people betting money on skins (other than them missing out on the revenue)?[/QUOTE] Kid Exploitation, aka "Think of muh children" excuse.

[QUOTE=srobins;51158018]I don't really understand the point of gambling regulations, can someone explain why the government cares about people betting money on skins (other than them missing out on the revenue)?[/QUOTE] Gambling isn't something children should get into. It's addictive and potentially destructive.

[QUOTE=Doozle;51158032]Gambling isn't something children should get into. It's addictive and potentially destructive.[/QUOTE] This argument, I can get behind. It's very easy to forget that while a lot of responsible adults with their own money and obligations play these games, a lot of kids do, too, and mommy's and daddy's credit cards are going to see a lot of microtransactions if they aren't paying attention.

what if valve moved operations to an indian reservation

The big issue is that there's literally no regulation of the skin gambling part, even after a lot of the major sites have been purged. A casino wouldn't let a 12 year old kid holding his mom's credit card in, this is just the digital equivalent of such regulation. And don't even start with "well the parents should be aware of the transactions and keep those cards in a safe place" argument, kids that want to get their hands on something will be smart little thefty fuckers.

they will probably put a age limit on trading forcing those to verify their id with steam aka enjoy a week waiting for your id to be verified

[QUOTE=aznz888;51158062]The big issue is that there's literally no regulation of the skin gambling part, even after a lot of the major sites have been purged. A casino wouldn't let a 12 year old kid holding his mom's credit card in, this is just the digital equivalent of such regulation. And don't even start with "well the parents should be aware of the transactions and keep those cards in a safe place" argument, kids that want to get their hands on something will be smart little thefty fuckers.[/QUOTE] It honestly is down to better parenting. Sure you can say "kids will be thefty little fuckers" but parents shouldn't be letting their kids do shit like this. If I had taken my dads credit card to spend money like this without permission, I'd have been fucked for years. Parents [B]need[/B] to take responsibility.

These CSGO skins were a mistake to begin with, along with the tf2 hats.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51158077]It honestly is down to better parenting. Sure you can say "kids will be thefty little fuckers" but parents shouldn't be letting their kids do shit like this. If I had taken my dads credit card to spend money like this without permission, I'd have been fucked for years. Parents [B]need[/B] to take responsibility.[/QUOTE] When I was a kid and I wanted to buy something online I would save up the money before asking if I could borrow my Grandad's debit card, and when I did use it I paid him for it immediately. Increasingly I see stories of kids spending their parents money thanks to a card linked to an account, and the excuse is always "They didn't know they were really spending money." Now whether the knew and were chancing their arm or they really were so naive that they didn't know the thing that asks for money is taking real money, that's still some incredibly bad parenting going on.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51158077]It honestly is down to better parenting. Sure you can say "kids will be thefty little fuckers" but parents shouldn't be letting their kids do shit like this. If I had taken my dads credit card to spend money like this without permission, I'd have been fucked for years. Parents [B]need[/B] to take responsibility.[/QUOTE] Okay but stealing parent's credit cards aren't the only way kids are getting into this. What about kids buying steam giftcards or prepaid visa giftcards? You don't have to be a certain age to buy them. Since Valve has no systems in place to check someone's age, they're letting kids into the gambling scene without even trying to stop it. Now I don't know what an ideal solution would be, any age verification system would be an enormous pain in the ass for every steam user, but the problem of underage gambling through steam products isn't just one about thieving children.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51158077]It honestly is down to better parenting. Sure you can say "kids will be thefty little fuckers" but parents shouldn't be letting their kids do shit like this. If I had taken my dads credit card to spend money like this without permission, I'd have been fucked for years. Parents [B]need[/B] to take responsibility.[/QUOTE] Parents can take responsibility but the problem is that the way the cash goes out doesn't come back in. Whereas a vendor could take responsibility and give a refund, if you gamble those skins away it's like trying to get a needle out of a haystack. And who's to pay, the gambling site? Paypal, for letting those transactions happen? Valve, for providing an easy-access and extremely popular platform? It was only a matter of time.

what a shitshow

[QUOTE=aznz888;51158062]kids that want to get their hands on something will be smart little thefty fuckers.[/QUOTE] If a child is straight up stealing from their parents there's definitely something wrong, don't just excuse it as "kids will be smart little thefty fuckers when they want something". Out of all the counterarguments that's possibly the worst one I've read

I still fail to see how this is actual gambling and not akin to something like tokens at pogo or a fake currency. It's skins and the closest thing to currency it gets is store credit. And our government can be pretty stupid with gambling and gambling laws. Pinball machines were illegal because of it at one point

[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;51158088]These CSGO skins were a mistake to begin with, along with the tf2 hats.[/QUOTE] Maybe if they're made to stop with the microtransaction crap then they'll get back to making more games, eh?

[QUOTE=Doozle;51158032]Gambling isn't something children should get into. It's addictive and potentially destructive.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't it be more reasonable to impose age restrictions on the sites rather than shut it all down completely?

i know freshmen at school who brag about spending thousands on skins and losing it

[QUOTE=t h e;51158204]If a child is straight up stealing from their parents there's definitely something wrong, don't just excuse it as "kids will be smart little thefty fuckers when they want something". Out of all the counterarguments that's possibly the worst one I've read[/QUOTE] Teens make mistakes. Are you implying you never made a mistake as a kid? The problem here is that if a kid ends up spending $2k of their parents money in a little to no regulated environment, there is [I]nothing[/I] that supports the parents getting that kind of money back. Unless Valve feels like writing a compensation check. Let me make a clarification, I absolutely believe that parents should be in charge of making sure their kids keep their heads out of trouble. Unfortunately, this kind of activity is pretty unknown to most parents(try explaining CSGO skins gambling to anyone who's not internet savvy, really) and it's a huge vulnerable spot. Valve has set the precedence by letting the skins economy turn into an online casino which is very easy to get into and very easy to scam for those who aren't as knowledgable and have a tendency to gamble away money -- kids and teens are a good example of this.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51158049]what if valve moved operations to an indian reservation[/QUOTE] they would finally have more than 1 customer support person nvm you mean american indian

[quote]The Washington State Gambling Commission has ordered game maker Valve Corporation to stop the transfer of skins via its Steam API, it announced in a release Wednesday.[/quote] Did they really order them to stop all trades that occur on the API or just gambling? If it's the former, I'm sure they'll respond explaining the difference between the two, afterall, Valve has been cracking down on gambling sites lately.

[QUOTE=srobins;51158018]I don't really understand the point of gambling regulations, can someone explain why the government cares about people betting money on skins (other than them missing out on the revenue)?[/QUOTE] Because the government wants to tax it. I promise if they got tax money from gambling sites they wouldn't give a fuck.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51158659]Because the government wants to tax it. I promise if they got tax money from gambling sites they wouldn't give a fuck.[/QUOTE] What? Online gambling is completely illegal in the United States. They don't care about the taxes, it's just puritanical bullshit laws.

[QUOTE=geel9;51158671]What? Online gambling is completely illegal in the United States. They don't care about the taxes, it's just puritanical bullshit laws.[/QUOTE] Online gambling is legal though. I know New Jersey has tons of online gambling sites. Though you need to physically be in the state to use it though. No idea how they enforce that though.

[QUOTE=The Pretender;51158423]Did they really order them to stop all trades that occur on the API or just gambling? If it's the former, I'm sure they'll respond explaining the difference between the two, afterall, Valve has been cracking down on gambling sites lately.[/QUOTE] This is what confuses me, Valve doesn't operate the casino, they just facilitate the transactions. It's like saying that a bank or credit card provider is responsible for illegal gambling. I have no idea how they can enforce this without banning all trading.

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51158719]I didn't violate the embargo, officer, I just facilitated the transactions and for reasons unrelated to my cut out of it, miraculously missed all the obvious signs that the parties were violating it.[/QUOTE]"I'm not lying! I'm just not representing everything the way it actually occurred!"

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51158719]I didn't violate the embargo, officer, I just facilitated the transactions and for reasons unrelated to my cut out of it, miraculously missed all the obvious signs that the parties were violating it.[/QUOTE] valve does not make a cut out of gambling sites that use their api

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51158822][url]https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6088-UDXM-7214[/url][/QUOTE] The money changes hands through third party services. Bots then trade the items without paying money and handle distribution.