• Sweden to Go Cashless?
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[img]http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/03/18/sweden_AP110915148966_620x350.jpg[/img] [SUB]Vicar Johan Tyrberg in the Carl Gustaf Church in Karlshamn, southern Sweden, on Sept 7, 2011, stands next to a credit card machine enabling worshippers to donate money to the church collection without carrying money in their pockets. (AP Photo/Camilla Lindskog)[/SUB] [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57399610/sweden-moving-towards-cashless-economy/[/url] [quote] (AP) STOCKHOLM - Sweden was the first European country to introduce bank notes in 1661. Now it's come farther than most on the path toward getting rid of them. "I can't see why we should be printing bank notes at all anymore," says Bjoern Ulvaeus, former member of 1970's pop group ABBA, and a vocal proponent for a world without cash. The contours of such a society are starting to take shape in this high-tech nation, frustrating those who prefer coins and bills over digital money. In most Swedish cities, public buses don't accept cash; tickets are prepaid or purchased with a cell phone text message. A small but growing number of businesses only take cards, and some bank offices — which make money on electronic transactions — have stopped handling cash altogether. "There are towns where it isn't at all possible anymore to enter a bank and use cash," complains Curt Persson, chairman of Sweden's National Pensioners' Organization. He says that's a problem for elderly people in rural areas who don't have credit cards or don't know how to use them to withdraw cash. The decline of cash is noticeable even in houses of worship, like the Carl Gustaf Church in Karlshamn, southern Sweden, where Vicar Johan Tyrberg recently installed a card reader to make it easier for worshippers to make offerings. "People came up to me several times and said they didn't have cash but would still like to donate money," Tyrberg says. Bills and coins represent only 3 percent of Sweden's economy, compared to an average of 9 percent in the eurozone and 7 percent in the U.S., according to the Bank for International Settlements, an umbrella organization for the world's central banks. Three percent is still too much if you ask Ulvaeus. A cashless society may seem like an odd cause for someone who made a fortune on "Money, Money, Money" and other ABBA hits, but for Ulvaeus it's a matter of security. After his son was robbed for the third time he started advocating a faster transition to a fully digital economy, if only to make life harder for thieves. "If there were no cash, what would they do?" says Ulvaeus, 66. The Swedish Bankers' Association says the shrinkage of the cash economy is already making an impact in crime statistics. The number of bank robberies in Sweden plunged from 110 in 2008 to 16 in 2011 — the lowest level since it started keeping records 30 years ago. It says robberies of security transports are also down. "Less cash in circulation makes things safer, both for the staff that handle cash, but also of course for the public," says Par Karlsson, a security expert at the organization. The prevalence of electronic transactions — and the digital trail they generate — also helps explain why Sweden has less of a problem with graft than countries with a stronger cash culture, such as Italy or Greece, says economics professor Friedrich Schneider of the Johannes Kepler University in Austria. "If people use more cards, they are less involved in shadow economy activities," says Schneider, an expert on underground economies. In Italy — where cash has been a common means of avoiding value-added tax and hiding profits from the taxman — Prime Minister Mario Monti in December put forward measures to limit cash transactions to payments under euro1,000 ($1,300), down from euro2,500 before. The flip side is the risk of cybercrimes. According to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention the number of computerized fraud cases, including skimming, surged to nearly 20,000 in 2011 from 3,304 in 2000. Oscar Swartz, the founder of Sweden's first Internet provider, Banhof, says a digital economy also raises privacy issues because of the electronic trail of transactions. He supports the idea of phasing out cash, but says other anonymous payment methods need to be introduced instead. "One should be able to send money and donate money to different organizations without being traced every time," he says. It's no surprise that Sweden and other Nordic countries are at the forefront of this development, given their emphasis on technology and innovation. For the second year in a row, Sweden ranked first in the Global Information Technology Report released at the World Economic Forum in January. The Economist Intelligence Unit also put Sweden top of its latest digital economy rankings, in 2010. Both rankings measure how far countries have come in integrating information and communication technologies in their economies. Internet startups in Sweden and elsewhere are now hard at work developing payment and banking services for smartphones. Swedish company iZettel has developed a device for small traders, similar to Square in the U.S., that plugs into the back of an iPhone to make it work like a credit card terminal. Sweden's biggest banks are expected to launch a joint service later this year that allows customers to transfer money between each other's accounts in real-time with their cell phones. Most experts don't expect cash to disappear anytime soon, but that its proportion of the economy will continue to decline as such payment options become available. Before retiring as deputy governor of Sweden's central bank, Lars Nyberg said last year that cash will survive "like the crocodile, even though it may be forced to see its habitat gradually cut back." Andrea Wramfelt, whose bowling alley in the southern city of Landskrona stopped accepting cash in 2010, makes a bolder prediction: She believes coins and notes will cease to exist in Sweden within 20 years. "Personally I think this is what people should expect in the future," she says. But there are pockets of resistance. Hanna Celik, whose family owns a newspaper kiosk in a Stockholm shopping mall, says the digital economy is all about banks seeking bigger earnings. Celik says he gets charged about 5 Swedish kronor ($0.80) for every credit card transaction, and a law passed by the Swedish Parliament prevents him from passing on that charge to consumers. "That stinks," he says. "For them (the banks), this is a very good way to earn a lot of money, that's what it's all about. They make huge profits." © 2012 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.[/quote] TL;DR Got physical money? A lot of places in Sweden may not be accepting them. Surprisingly, it's not the US going through this.
Sweden has the infrastructure to do this, so I don't see the problem other then cybersecurity.
It scares me that people are so willing to have every transaction of their lives stored on bank and/or government servers until the end of time, free for any government agent or hacker to peruse.
Wow, I was just reading about this yesterday for my politics assignment, not related to the news at all. They're literally almost cashless anyways and could do it.
Reminds me of Mondex. Awesome idea but hard to make standard.
I like the move form physical to digital but as of now we still need to develop the technology in order to [i]completely[/i] wipe out physical money.
Progress.
I'm surrounded by primitives.
I feel sorry for all swede drug users, how will you pay your dealer now??
What if you're underage? How will you pay for everything considering banks don't give out debit cards until you're 18?
I don't want my money to be tracked everywhere. I love cash. Once everything is digital everything gets taxed. edit: Read this: [url]http://www.ghacks.net/2012/03/19/who-in-their-right-mind-would-want-a-cashless-society/[/url] And what about if you want to pay your neighbor for some favor? I don't want to write a check for everything.
This is a really bad idea. Too easy for Big Brotheresque abuse on the government's part. As stated above with the drug dealer example.
Isn't it a bit nonsensical that money is electronically centralized so much? Back before computers I'm sure people didn't feel safe having no physical money and just some dude with a notepad to keep track of how much money you have
This sounds bad to me.
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;35225608]I feel sorry for all swede drug users, how will you pay your dealer now??[/QUOTE] IOUs of course!
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;35225608]I feel sorry for all swede drug users, how will you pay your dealer now??[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.alchemyofchange.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Square-Credit-card-Reader.jpg[/IMG] yes its for android too
[QUOTE=meppers;35225713][IMG]http://www.alchemyofchange.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Square-Credit-card-Reader.jpg[/IMG] yes its for android too[/QUOTE] Too easy to track.
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JdTU5Um6qRI/TPu_8sboGEI/AAAAAAAABJM/tiKkSLPgfrw/s1600/nukacola.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=gonedead0;35225723]Too easy to track.[/QUOTE] There's always Bitcoin, huge pain in the ass for day to day transactions, but it's always there.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;35225455]It scares me that people are so willing to have every transaction of their lives stored on bank and/or government servers until the end of time, free for any government agent or hacker to peruse.[/QUOTE] how many people get their digital money stolen each year? compare that to how many people get robbed in the street.
[QUOTE=Pantz76;35225676]This is a really bad idea. Too easy for Big Brotheresque abuse on the government's part. As stated above with the drug dealer example.[/QUOTE] I guess in an emergency they would have the power to do what Hitler did and take money straight from bank accounts.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35225876]how many people get their digital money stolen each year? compare that to how many people get robbed in the street.[/QUOTE]Of course you're not going to have as many digital thefts as muggings, it's not prolific enough to catch a burglar's eye. Once this goes mainstream, I'll be you twenty dollars that digital thefts will be just as bad or worse than physical theft.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;35225562]I'm surrounded by primitives.[/QUOTE] yeah dude that's cause you live in sweden lole
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;35225935]Of course you're not going to have as many digital thefts as muggings, it's not prolific enough to catch a burglar's eye. Once this goes mainstream, I'll be you twenty dollars that digital thefts will be just as bad or worse than physical theft.[/QUOTE] robbing someone off the street is way easier than number sniffing. most big money is used and maintained on the internet yet people are still getting robbed on the street.
But this way if your assets are frozen or the system collapses you have no hope. I am all for digital but at least have a physical alternative. Also 100% electronic would make some transactions tedious and could also open doors for invasion of privacy. What about yard sales/flea markets? Also what about small children who don't have bank accounts? When I was a kid my parents would give me a quarter to get a toy out of the machine if I was good in the store, this could kill the bouncy ball trade.
[QUOTE=gonedead0;35225638]What if you're underage? How will you pay for everything considering banks don't give out debit cards until you're 18?[/QUOTE] parents can get a atm/cash card for their children when they've reached the age of 13 iirc. it won't work for online purchases but it will work in card readers in Sweden. the only time i use cash nowadays is when i purchase something that has a low price. normally i don't carry more than $20 in my wallet [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] however i don't how this happening in many, many years. the reason busses stopped taking cash was because they were an easy target for robbers. busses never gets robbed now
[QUOTE=Cuel;35226128]parents can get a atm/cash card for their children when they've reached the age of 13 iirc. it won't work for online purchases but it will work in card readers in Sweden. the only time i use cash nowadays is when i purchase something that has a low price. normally i don't carry more than $20 in my wallet[/QUOTE] But what if you just want to give a child a few dollars for their birthday? You would have to write their parents a check for them to let their child spend. Also what about charity sales, nobody would buy candy, cookies, etc. from an organization if they had to go through the trouble of swiping a card and entering a pin, that is assuming your local charities can afford card readers.
give the child a receipt that you've transfered money :v: nah. i don't see this happening in a lot of years. cash won't just disappear and not work one day.
[QUOTE=Stonecycle;35225407]says Bjoern Ulvaeus, former member of 1970's pop group ABBA, and a vocal proponent for a world without cash.[/QUOTE] Something is happening in Sweden? Quick, interview someone from ABBA! A few months ago there was an article here about Ulvaeus's opinion of the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slussen]Slussen[/url] redesign.
Does this mean we can finally start moving to a universal currency such as credits?
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