Trump and Pompeo Will "Review Ban" on CIA Torture Programs, Waterboarding - Polidicks

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/25/politics/donald-trump-waterboarding-torture/[/url] [quote][B]President Donald Trump said he wants to "fight fire with fire" when it comes to stopping terrorism, suggesting that he could be open to bringing back torture because he "absolutely" believes it works.[/B] [B]Trump said "people at the highest level of intelligence" have told him that torture does work, something military experts have refuted.[/B] He went on to say, however, that he will listen to what his Cabinet secretaries have to say about the issue. "When ISIS is doing things that no one has ever heard of, since medieval times, would I feel strongly about waterboarding?" Trump said in an interview with ABC News. "As far as I'm concerned, we have to fight fire with fire." But he also said that he would defer to the recommendations of Defense Secretary James Mattis, who opposes enhanced interrogation, and [B]CIA Director Mike Pompeo, who told senators earlier this month that he wouldn't sanction the use of torture. Pompeo later said he would consider bringing back waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation measures under certain circumstances.[/B][/quote] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-cia-director-mike-pompeo-open-waterboarding-enhanced-interrogation-torture-a7541026.html[/url] [quote]Rights groups are calling for the US Senate to reject President Donald Trump's selection to head the CIA, who has said he would consider bringing back waterboarding. Human Rights Watch said there are "overriding concerns" Kansas congressman Mike Pompeo "would use the agency’s surveillance and other powers in ways likely to violate rights on a broad scale." During his confirmation hearings, Mr Pompeo said he would "absolutely not" bring back harsh interrogation techniques like waterboarding if asked to do so by Mr Trump. “Moreover, I can’t imagine that I would be asked that,” he added. [B]However, in a series of written responses to questions from members of the Senate intelligence committee, he said he would back reviewing the ban on waterboarding if it was shown to impede the "gathering of vital intelligence". "If confirmed, I will consult with experts at the Agency and at other organisations in the US government on whether the Army Field Manual uniform application is an impediment to gathering vital intelligence to protect the country," he wrote.[/B][/quote] Duplicitous answers from Pompeo. He stated he either "absolutely would not" restart the torture programs, and that he would reconsider that position if he felt the torture ban was an "impediment." Trump spouted his usual nonsense. However, what is the likelihood that we would [B]actually see[/B] the torture programs put back into effect, even with the support of both the president and the director of the CIA? Well, Trump didn't just Executive Order it, Congress would have to vote on the subject, and they seem to be pretty well settled on the subject -- potentially even to the point of challenging the order: [quote][B]The Senate voted overwhelmingly to ban torture across the US government in 2015[/B], codifying a ban President Barack Obama issued by executive order shortly after he was sworn in in 2009. Obama then signed the updated defense authorization bill into law. Sen. John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, said the law is clear on the practice despite what Trump were to order. [B]"The President can sign whatever executive orders he likes. But the law is the law. We are not bringing back torture in the United States of America," the Arizona senator said in a statement.[/B] Sen. John Thune, a South Dakota Republican, echoed that sentiment, saying the use of torture is "settled law" and that "Congress has spoken."[/quote] So, there is at least some amount of resistance within Congress. As to whether that will remain the case? We can really only speculate. Either way, it's pretty fucking concerning that we're having this discussion. The president of the United States is calling for extrajudicial torture programs.

Why is this a top priority? There's so much other shit to sort out.

[QUOTE=Occlusion;51729368]Why is this a top priority? There's so much other shit to sort out.[/QUOTE] Well, to be fair, nobody said it [I]was[/I] a top priority. Neither Trump nor Pompeo have hinted any urgency at this, only that they are "reviewing" whether or not a torture ban is an "impediment to the gathering of vital intelligence." The story here isn't that torture programs are currently being voted on, but simply that the President and the director of the CIA are both open to leaving them on the table. Trump, in fact, is openly and enthusiastically in support of them.

[QUOTE=Occlusion;51729368]Why is this a top priority? There's so much other shit to sort out.[/QUOTE] Because, to put it bluntly, Trump is a fucking idiot.

Can NATO come and liberate the US the way we liberated Iraq, the ability to perform extrajudicial detentions coupled with torture in the name of national security is some Mukhabarat or Republican Guard-level shit that should never have been a thing

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51729477]Pretty sure the US has far greater power than the rest of NATO combined, you know considering we do all the heavy lifting.[/QUOTE] -snip, pretty sure the post I made here can be considered treason-

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51729365]However, what is the likelihood that we would [B]actually see[/B] the torture programs put back into effect, even with the support of both the president and the director of the CIA? [/QUOTE] Remember also that back when Trump was promising to bring back torture, senior officials at the CIA were saying the officers themselves were against it and wouldn't bring it back. Pompeo might end up having to replace half the agency to get people onboard with torture. Overall, I don't see it as particularly likely, but it is possible. [QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;51729404]Can NATO come and liberate the US the way we liberated Iraq, the ability to perform extrajudicial detentions coupled with torture in the name of national security is some Mukhabarat or Republican Guard-level shit that should never have been a thing[/QUOTE] I know rampant idealism/hyperbole is par for the course in this sort of thread, but you realize NATO was onboard with it? Torture is contentious, but extrajudicial detention is par for the course in wartime.

Torture doesn't even work, this is a feel good measure; how shameful.

It doesn't work, and it's supremely unethical. Matter of fact, it does far more damage to one's cause than it helps. Why are we even talking about this?

[quote]Trump said "people at the highest level of intelligence" have told him that torture does work[/quote] That's such a Trump thing to say

[QUOTE=Davoc;51729628]That's such a Trump thing to say[/QUOTE] Trump is only going to hire the best torturers, the greatest there are! Exciting!

"Enhanced interrogation" is such an unsubtle term that I even understood it as a ten year old in 2003. I wish supporters of it would stop bullshitting and just call it torture.

Mattis won't let this slide

[QUOTE=Jonii;51729636]"Enhanced interrogation" is such an unsubtle term that I even understood it as a ten year old in 2003. I wish supporters of it would stop bullshitting and just call it torture.[/QUOTE] For those who hate political correctness, they sure like to pretty up the unflattering words.

Torture as a form of interrogation is simply ineffective, you keep pushing the guy to give you something, and when he reach his breaking point (or even before) and he will come up with some rubbish intel. A carrot and stick approach is more effective in getting intelligence out. Say, you're waterboarding him or crushing his fingers, you ask for a name, he'll give you one straight away on his mind, and you end up chasing ghosts which waste even more time.

Torture is not only ineffective, it is sadistic, barbaric, authoritarian. It doesn't belong in this day and age.

"Mister President, why have you legislated for 10% of the USA's national GDP to be directly and blatantly directed into your pay?" "People in our highest intelligence positions said that it's a good idea"

Support of torture is obviously motivated by sadism and spite. Even a child could grasp the idea that someone being tortured will just encourage them to start spouting false information just so you stop hurting them. Why even put up the pretence that you feel torture works and you aren't just getting off on the idea of inflicting pain on your enemies?

[QUOTE=EcksDee;51729779]"Mister President, why have you legislated for 10% of the USA's national GDP to be directly and blatantly directed into your pay?" "People in our highest intelligence positions said that it's a good idea"[/QUOTE] Who is in his highest intelligence position? Kushner? Bannon?

I am both scared and intrigued to see what wystan would think of this.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51729806]Who is in his highest intelligence position? Kushner? Bannon?[/QUOTE] I wouldn't be surprised if he's talking about his left hemorrhoid. Not being figurative and referring to anyone, I mean literally his hemorrhoid.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51729543]Torture doesn't even work, this is a feel good measure; how shameful.[/QUOTE] I remember a time it wasn't thought of. Not seen as wrong but unheard of. This a sign of decline.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51729477]Pretty sure the US has far greater power than the rest of NATO combined, you know considering we do all the heavy lifting.[/QUOTE] No? NATO is made up of 28 countries, including the 6th, 8th and 9th best militaries in the world, hate to break it to you but 90% of other countries don't view the US as some sort of utopia they should just roll over for.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;51729779]"Mister President, why have you legislated for 10% of the USA's national GDP to be directly and blatantly directed into your pay?" "People in our highest intelligence positions said that it's a good idea"[/QUOTE] "Mr. President, who's this highest intelligence position you keep talking about?" "It's me. I'm the highest intelligence position."

[QUOTE=EcksDee;51729779]"Mister President, why have you legislated for 10% of the USA's national GDP to be directly and blatantly directed into your pay?" "People in our highest intelligence positions said that it's a good idea"[/QUOTE] i'm pretty sure trump meant intelligence as in shorthand for intelligence agencies

tommrows headline: trump to review the geneva convention's ban on crimes against humanity

[QUOTE=Sableye;51730207]tommrows headline: trump to review the geneva convention's ban on crimes against humanity[/QUOTE] Considering he already said somewhere before that the Geneva conventions were an actual problem, this might actually happen sooner rather than later.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51729654]For those who hate political correctness, they sure like to pretty up the unflattering words.[/QUOTE] They had during Bush Jr's years a safe space called "free speech zones"

Fuck torture. One of the absolute worst legacies of the Bush presidency. Our country has no right to lock people up without trial and subject them to this shit

Hopefullly any attempts to bring it back will be shut down instantly, what with it being unconstitutional and all.