Deep space travel may cause brain damage to humans due to interstellar radiation - Polidicks

[quote]Astronauts on a mission to Mars will be expected to rely on their memory, multitasking and decision-making skills to handle the first manned expedition beyond the moon. But the harmful radiation from galactic cosmic rays throughout their journey could cause them to experience cognitive impairment in these key areas, as well as increased depression and anxiety, according to a new study. The effects of exposure to highly charged and ionized particles during extended deep-space travel could be long-lasting and without resolve, similar to dementia. "These charged particles are very dangerous," said Charles Limoli, study co-author and professor of radiation oncology at the University of California, Irvine. "The reason is, they are very energetic and fully ionized, and when they travel through the body, they produce this type of damage that the cells and tissues of your body find very difficult to recover from. Now, it really looks like the complications associated with these exposures to the brain are becoming one of the more difficult to deal with." The particles are believed to originate from the remnants of ancient supernovae. Though NASA has known for a long time that the space environment is a radioactive one, astronauts have largely been within Earth's protective magnetosphere aboard the International Space Station. The only astronauts to directly encounter galactic cosmic rays were those embarking on short-duration trips to the moon. But just trying to reach Mars will take six to nine months.[/quote] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/13/health/mars-mission-astronaut-brain-damage/index.html[/url] :johnnymo1:

Which is why spacecraft need some sort of plasma ray shield to soak up most of the radiation.

I'm not convinced you could get enough radiation damage to your brain to cause cognitive impairment without the rest of your body failing. I'm pretty certain most deep space plans use the huge mass of the fuel as a radiation shield anyway.

Would it be possible to give the ship its own magnetosphere via electromagnets to shield the radiation? Or at least some of it.

[QUOTE=Nerfmaster000;51437597]Would it be possible to give the ship its own magnetosphere via electromagnets to shield the radiation? Or at least some of it.[/QUOTE] On a related, is it possible to use this to propel the ship?

I remember reading this a couple weeks ago. It's like, "No shit?" I mean I get stating specifically what the dangers are, but the article acts like we should be surprised that there's dangerous radiation in space. [quote]Even radiation shielding on the craft used to take astronauts to Mars isn't the ultimate prevention tactic. Currently, there is no technology that can stop these particles from penetrating spacecraft and affecting the astronauts, Limoli said.[/quote] Yes and 100 years ago there was no technology to get us to the moon either.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;51437612]I remember reading this a couple weeks ago. It's like, "No shit?" I mean I get stating specifically what the dangers are, but the article acts like we should be surprised that there's dangerous radiation in space. Yes and 100 years ago there was no technology to get us to the moon either.[/QUOTE] Wasn't there cosmic radiation too, when they landed on moon?

[QUOTE=ironman17;51437572]Which is why spacecraft need some sort of plasma ray shield to soak up most of the radiation.[/QUOTE] i want to take a moment to appreciate how cool this sounds

[QUOTE=Nerfmaster000;51437597]Would it be possible to give the ship its own magnetosphere via electromagnets to shield the radiation? Or at least some of it.[/QUOTE] I dunno if a magnetic field alone is what creates a magnetosphere. I imagine a sheath of charged gases would be needed to soak up most of the high-energy particles and forces that would otherwise pass through a ship unimpeded.

According to Curiosity's [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_assessment_detector"]Radiation Assessment Detector (RAD)[/URL], astronauts would receive ~350mSv over the course of the 180 day trip to Mars. Plus another ~350mSv for 500 days on the surface: [img_thumb]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/PIA17601-Comparisons-RadiationExposure-MarsTrip-20131209.png[/img_thumb] [URL="https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/284273main_Radiation_HS_Mod1.pdf"]NASA has the average (across all ages and both genders) yearly exposure limit to ~500mSv (x10 more than the DOE limit on US radiation workers)[/URL], and the [URL="http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/radiation.png"]always obligatory XKCD radiation chart clocks in 100mSv/yr for the smallest correlated dose with an increase in cancer risk.[/URL] Of course this doesn't take into account Solar Cycles which is [U]highly[/U] advised to do deep space mission during periods of low Solar activity out of the ~11 year cycle. [QUOTE=ironman17;51437572]Which is why spacecraft need some sort of plasma ray shield to soak up most of the radiation.[/QUOTE] NASA and plenty of other agencies have looked into legitimate magnetic shielding for spacecraft ([URL="https://www.google.com/patents/US20110049303"]Hell there's already a patent on it[/URL]), but that sometimes requires a fairly hefty power source more so than PV and RTGs can provide. ([URL="http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/3772/how-much-power-would-a-spacecrafts-magnetic-shield-require"]Current estimates place it in the ~10kW range which is on the upper end of what Ion Thrusters require[/URL] which is only possible for use with PVs if you're about 1AU/Earth or closer to the sun) Most have been looking at using superconductors as the coil material considering space is already cold, but I haven't heard of any flight tested/approved superconducting wire yet. Save for commercially available [URL="http://www.suptech.com/about_superconducting_wire_n.php"]SupTech wire[/URL]. Another solution is HV electric field shielding, which is something[URL="https://www.innocentive.com/ar/challenge/9933637"] I myself attempted for,[/URL] which doesn't require a hefty power source (see little current draw) but just a HV step up system to get a voltage difference across ~5m of around 100kV. TL;DR The most practical combination as it stands is to have some sort of nuclear reactor on board + superconducting magnetic shielding system cooled by the vacuum + strategic placement of water for both drinking and shielding.

[QUOTE=portalcrazy;51437643]i want to take a moment to appreciate how cool this sounds[/QUOTE] Well, the concept was featured in an episode of the Venture Bros (Season 5, Episode 1) as a component being built for Gargantua-2, using that exact name for it.

So it's not [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYElfHoSe5I]space madness[/url], it's just dementia and cancer. Fuck.

[QUOTE=Zick-1957;51437640]Wasn't there cosmic radiation too, when they landed on moon?[/QUOTE] Yup, all of the [URL="https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/284273main_Radiation_HS_Mod1.pdf"]Apollo astronauts received about ~12mSv on average for the week spent in space[/URL]. But keep in mind the highest risk areas are the Van Allen belts (As well as typical Solar Flares), and most of their trip was either on the moon or in transit away from LEO. Hence why you want to spend little time in high LEO to GEO orbits (The ISS about ~150 miles/240km under the Inner Belt).

[QUOTE=Megadave;51437606]On a related, is it possible to use this to propel the ship?[/QUOTE] only if quantum vacuum thrusters actually work [sp] which probably don't[/sp] otherwise any system would require a nuclear reactor which itself would enable some form of ion thruster.

We've known that deep space travel poses the risk of radiation poisoning for a long time. We've also known that our current forms of radiation shielding aren't effective for extended, long periods of time in space for as long as we've been using them. We've known all of this longer than we've known that Trix are for kids. What exactly is this news article saying that isn't already pretty well known?

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;51437612]I remember reading this a couple weeks ago. It's like, "No shit?" I mean I get stating specifically what the dangers are, but the article acts like we should be surprised that there's dangerous radiation in space. Yes and 100 years ago there was no technology to get us to the moon either.[/QUOTE] Out of curiosity, what sort of radiation do cosmic rays emit? From the sound of it, I'm assuming gamma radiation?

[QUOTE=PsycheClops;51437713]Out of curiosity, what sort of radiation do cosmic rays emit? From the sound of it, I'm assuming gamma radiation?[/QUOTE] [URL="https://srag.jsc.nasa.gov/spaceradiation/What/What.cfm"]Here's the breakdown of sources.[/URL] But typically you get it from the Sun (~90% Protons, ~10 Helium Ions, rest is heavy ions/gamma/electron), trapped electrons/protons in the Van Allen Belts and then mostly gamma and heavy ions from interstellar space. The worst offender is the Sun by far.

on a side note, while plasma shielding is ideal, NASA has been working extensively on water-based polymer shielding that would greatly negate the radiation as well. they've also recently announced funding for several key areas of development in radiation shielding. [url]http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/03/28/nasa-funds-radiation-shielding-projects-sbir-phase-ii-program/[/url] the real issue with radiation shielding is do we devote the weight to it, and for the last 60 years of spaceflight its not really been needed but if we were to construct a large deep space habitat for transporting people between mars and the earth then absolutely we would build it into the living space.

Also, Demron is a thing and will [URL="https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/experiments/233.html"]probably be integrated into future flight/surface/EVA suits[/URL].

Plus there is research on treating exposure to radiation, so it all adds up, sort of.

Journalists discover that water is wet, and there's radiation in space.

So the threat of space madness is real? Is there a chance astronauts will go crazy and start eating bars of soap? :v:

[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;51437668] NASA and plenty of other agencies have looked into legitimate magnetic shielding for spacecraft ([URL="https://www.google.com/patents/US20110049303"]Hell there's already a patent on it[/URL]), but that sometimes requires a fairly hefty power source more so than PV and RTGs can provide. ([URL="http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/3772/how-much-power-would-a-spacecrafts-magnetic-shield-require"]Current estimates place it in the ~10kW range which is on the upper end of what Ion Thrusters require[/URL] which is only possible for use with PVs if you're about 1AU/Earth or closer to the sun) Most have been looking at using superconductors as the coil material considering space is already cold, but I haven't heard of any flight tested/approved superconducting wire yet. Save for commercially available [URL="http://www.suptech.com/about_superconducting_wire_n.php"]SupTech wire[/URL]. Another solution is HV electric field shielding, which is something[URL="https://www.innocentive.com/ar/challenge/9933637"] I myself attempted for,[/URL] which doesn't require a hefty power source (see little current draw) but just a HV step up system to get a voltage difference across ~5m of around 100kV. TL;DR The most practical combination as it stands is to have some sort of nuclear reactor on board + superconducting magnetic shielding system cooled by the vacuum + strategic placement of water for both drinking and shielding.[/QUOTE] What about setting up 3-D printing factories in space to circumvent the weight and transportation obstacles from Earth? Sure it would take time, money, and manpower/automation but having said factories in space would pay off. Seems like a logical step whenever mankind is ready for the endeavor.

[QUOTE=Xavith;51438453]Journalists discover that water is wet, and there's radiation in space.[/QUOTE] The article isn't insinuating something as simple as that...

Something makes me want to point out that vacuum has no temperature.

[QUOTE=Abaddabadon;51438476]What about setting up 3-D printing factories in space to circumvent the weight and transportation obstacles from Earth? Sure it would take time, money, and manpower/automation but having said factories in space would pay off. Seems like a logical step whenever mankind is ready for the endeavor.[/QUOTE] You still have to get the raw materials into space, and manufacturing in zero-G presents its own set of challenges.

Space travel is obviously all about robots. No need for life support, oxygen, water, all that kind of stuff. No need to bring them back. No worry about how long the trip takes. No worries about physical health or insanity. The only time people are going is after we genetically engineer space humans. I envision growing them in beakers in a space station. They will never set foot on Earth, but they will be suited for going to all the places in range of our ships.

[QUOTE=Abaddabadon;51438476]What about setting up 3-D printing factories in space to circumvent the weight and transportation obstacles from Earth? Sure it would take time, money, and manpower/automation but having said factories in space would pay off. Seems like a logical step whenever mankind is ready for the endeavor.[/QUOTE] It would make transportation simpler yes, but not cheaper, you'd be able to send up more usable material at a time yes due to size constraints, but it would weight the same, and for the most part weight is the real limiting factor, not size. Currently there's an inflatable module being tested on the ISS, that is likely a far more viable option then space factories

I think we're a long, long way off before ever dreaming about interstellar travel. The amount of energy it would take to take a ship with humans to even the nearest star would be crazy high. And if you use a giant magnet as a shield, you also need a shittone of energy to power that magnet too. All in all, it requires a shittone of energy. I think we're better off looking within our solar system instead. The magnetic fluctuations of interstellar space is ridiculous as well, it's a lot harsher than it is out there where our sun protects us.

:tinfoil: hat stops all guys trust me.