Russia Considers Returning Snowden to U.S. to ‘Curry Favor’ With Trump: Official - Polidicks

[quote]U.S. intelligence has collected information that Russia is considering turning over Edward Snowden as a "gift" to President Donald Trump — who has called the NSA leaker a "spy" and a "traitor" who deserves to be executed.[/quote] [url]http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/russia-eyes-sending-snowden-u-s-gift-trump-official-n718921[/url] Talk about outliving your usefulness. Jesus Christ.

the punishment of Snowden would be considered nothing less than one of the most shameful acts in our history by future historians. The guy is a national hero.

well that's one way to repair relations i guess

[QUOTE=General J;51806481]the punishment of Snowden would be considered nothing less than one of the most shameful acts in our history by future historians. The guy is a national hero.[/QUOTE] You must not have read much history.

Then what the hell was this, Russia? [url]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/world/europe/edward-snowden-asylum-russia.html?_r=1[/url] [editline]•[/editline] [media]https://twitter.com/katiecouric/status/830200506496720896[/media]

[QUOTE=General J;51806481]the punishment of Snowden would be considered nothing less than one of the most shameful acts in our history by future historians. The guy is a national hero.[/QUOTE] Besides the whole committing treason part yeah I could see why he'd be considered a national 'hero'.

[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;51806504]Besides the whole committing treason part yeah I could see why he'd be considered a national 'hero'.[/QUOTE] He literally uncovered a massive conspiracy, you don't think that's heroic?

snip

[QUOTE=General J;51806481]nothing less than one of the most shameful acts in our history[/QUOTE] Err...

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;51806508]He literally uncovered a massive conspiracy, you don't think that's heroic?[/QUOTE] What he did was throw away a cushy lifestyle millions of Americans would literally kill to get in the name of adding a hint of credence to something everyone already knew for decades before fading into near total obscurity somewhere in Moscow. I don't think he should be tried and executed, but I also don't think he's a hero. I'd, honestly, call him a bit of an idiot. He could have done so much more if he had played it smarter, probably retained his cushy lifestyle in the US to boot.

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;51806508]He literally uncovered a massive conspiracy, you don't think that's heroic?[/QUOTE] He caused untold amounts of unnecessary collateral damage to the intelligence community in the process. He also did it following a workplace dispute, which casts suspicion on the whole "altruistic hero" aspect of his story. He's a traitor and a shitbag. End of story.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51806645]What he did was throw away a cushy lifestyle millions of Americans would literally kill to get in the name of adding a hint of credence to something everyone already knew for decades before fading into near total obscurity somewhere in Moscow. I don't think he should be tried and executed, but I also don't think he's a hero. I'd, honestly, call him a bit of an idiot. He could have done so much more if he had played it smarter, probably retained his cushy lifestyle in the US to boot.[/QUOTE] OK, what else could he have done other than using his access to log insurmountable amounts of data and sprinkle it out to journalists across the globe and get out before they knew what he did? Would he only have been a brilliant inside man if he deleted the source code and blew up the secret weapon factory?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51806673]He caused untold amounts of unnecessary collateral damage to the intelligence community in the process. He also did it following a workplace dispute, which casts suspicion on the whole "altruistic hero" aspect of his story. He's a traitor and a shitbag. End of story.[/QUOTE] I'll take 'traitorous scum who blew the whistle on extensive government surveillance' over 'patriotic hero complicit in aforementioned scheme' any day.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;51806675]OK, what else could he have done other than using his access to log insurmountable amounts of data and sprinkle it out to journalists across the globe and get out before they knew what he did? Would he only have been a brilliant inside man if he deleted the source code and blew up the secret weapon factory?[/QUOTE] How about feeding it piecemeal to whistleblower channels like wikipedia under a pseudonym, such that a [i]constant stream of leaks[/i] can be maintained for as long as possible? A one time burst leak is nowhere near as bad as a constant pinhole. They can damage control a burst, but a pinhole in a particularly hard-to-find spot will be a thorn in their side for years. Or, hey, how about just not bothering? Maybe it's just hindsight but his reveals did fuck all to improve anything. [Quote=America around the time of his documents going public]Ok, great, we have some proof the NSA's spying on us....oh, hey, five minutes have passed, let's see what's up with American Idol![/quote] The spying's worse now than it was back then, despite the leaks he made, despite his attempt at pseudo-martyrdom. Not only did he throw away a cushy lifestyle millions of Americans would do anything for, but he failed miserably at actually effecting any change. [i]Nobody cared.[/i] It was a blurb on the paper, on the 9PM news, and then everyone's attention shifted back to whatever random minutae they were focusing on before the blurb. At best he was just an ineffectual idiot, at worse he may have ended up inadvertently fucking the entire country over for decades by putting himself in the very situation the article OP posted is reporting on. We all know how it will go if the USGov gets a hold of him, especially with the strong GOP lean in every branch just about. He'll end up in Guantanamo and we'll never hear of him again. [editline]10th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Headhumpy;51806739]I'll take 'traitorous scum who blew the whistle on extensive government surveillance' over 'patriotic hero complicit in aforementioned scheme' any day.[/QUOTE] You'd have a point if the whistleblowing actually catalyzed something. But it didn't. Americans really just didn't care and he was quickly forgotten about. The spying's worse now than it was before he leaked anything and Americans [i]still[/i] don't care.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51806673]He caused untold amounts of unnecessary collateral damage to the intelligence community in the process.[/QUOTE] Good, the US's intelligence deserves to get fucked. Maybe if we didn't do shady, totalitarian shit that warranted whistleblowing, we wouldn't have our intelligence compromised.

testecull i think your assertion that hes was a blip on the radar that nobody cared about is a huge stretch and by that i mean its actually just an untrue generalization of "millions of americans" who "just wanna be cushioned :(" you should probably leave that contempt for millions of autonomous people at the door.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51807010]You'd have a point if the whistleblowing actually catalyzed something. But it didn't. Americans really just didn't care and he was quickly forgotten about. The spying's worse now than it was before he leaked anything and Americans [i]still[/i] don't care.[/QUOTE] I'd say this constitutes a failure on the part of the American populace rather than a failure on Snowden's part.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51806645]cushy lifestyle cushy lifestyle[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TestECull;51807010]cushy lifestyle[/QUOTE] Why do you keep using this as an argument when it is self-evident that Snowden is selfless enough to give it up?

What a shitty country the US has become. To see its citizens bash against a guy who risked his life to show everyone what was going under the hood. If Americans don't care, then it's not his fault. It's the stupid Americans fault. He risked his life, not knowing if that would wake up the guys at home, and that makes it even more patriotic. What would be the point of doing things for people if you knew all the time the exact outcome? Let's not mind the fact that those who tried to denounce it via official channels were fired or removed by superiors who did not want that to be known. But oh well, most of the time people who aren't in these situations won't understand so I guess there's nothing you can do to make them comprehend the situation. Bu bu bu but he's with the Russians! Let him come back home where he won't be sui-won't be harass-won't face an unfair trial! EDIT: What's even worse, is seeing people think that SOMEHOW, the NSA and the CIA operate full time on behalf of the average joe who is busting his ass 24/7. Good grief...

[QUOTE=Mingebox;51806501]You must not have read much history.[/QUOTE] I'll admit exaggerating for effect. It would still be at least a big deal regardless.

"but he committed treason!" yeah well so what, the government isn't always right, get over it

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51807194]"but he committed treason!" yeah well so what, the government isn't always right, get over it[/QUOTE] The US was founded by traitors..

Snowden is a hero and has more balls than most of us here on FP. PERIOD. Anyone who wants to criticize the way he went about doing it, I'd like to point you to a quote from U.S. President Teddy Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. [B]The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood[/B]; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." The dude blew the whistle on and pissed off one of the [I]most powerful entities in the world[/I] for the good of the American people.

Nooo don't do it.

This should renew his plight for permanent asylum. I'm certain there's a country out there that previously wouldn't consider it that will do it just because of Trump. Or he could disappear into North Korea.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51806673]He caused untold amounts of unnecessary collateral damage to the intelligence community in the process. He also did it following a workplace dispute, which casts suspicion on the whole "altruistic hero" aspect of his story. He's a traitor and a shitbag. End of story.[/QUOTE] Your one-way intelligence system blows chunks and everyone around you hates the fact you cry foul if we don't let you in on our secrets as well. You can live with a bit of collateral damage. We've been having to deal with your shit for over 15 years.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51807010][...] You'd have a point if the whistleblowing actually catalyzed something. But it didn't. Americans really just didn't care and he was quickly forgotten about. The spying's worse now than it was before he leaked anything and Americans [i]still[/i] don't care.[/QUOTE] He had quite the impact for us Europeans over here, as far as I can tell, also landing our government in Germany in fairly hot water and continuing criticism :eng101: His actions were definitely needed for the world, but maybe not as much the US where people seem to be all too happy to trade away personal liberties for a comfortable feeling.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51806673]He caused untold amounts of unnecessary collateral damage to the intelligence community in the process. He also did it following a workplace dispute, which casts suspicion on the whole "altruistic hero" aspect of his story. He's a traitor and a shitbag. End of story.[/QUOTE] Yeah, how the fuck does he dare to tell the american people their privacy is being invaded and everything they say is being recorded!

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51806673]He caused untold amounts of unnecessary collateral damage to the intelligence community in the process. He also did it following a workplace dispute, which casts suspicion on the whole "altruistic hero" aspect of his story. He's a traitor and a shitbag. End of story.[/QUOTE] "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Really though, and this time with a bit less dramatics: The US seems to have been censoring information about the leaks from social media (with one tweet linking to a leak report apparently selectively not appearing in the US for hours, for example), and your media didn't seem to do a good job reporting on it either. I'm pretty sure your ruling parties are fully aware that there's a large, more liberal, part of society that had given up on politics because they aren't represented at all by the not-throwing-your-vote-away options. I sincerely hope the current events are enough to shake things up a bit for the better.