Spanking your child as punishment- Ethical or not? - General

Spanking, ranging from a quick hard slap on the rear, or bending them over your knee for a few second, or even minutes long wailing, with anything ranging from a hand, a shoe, a belt, a flyswatter... I believe spanking is an old-time thing, and should be abandoned. In my eyes, spanking is nearly a form of child abuse, and it has been proven in studies that spanking has negative long-term effects- especially on those with slightly "genetic" anger issues in the first place. I think it doesn't really teach the child anything, and may actually make them fear the parent(s) in the future, or outright hate them. Experiences: Both my brother and I were spanked pretty often by one of my grandmothers. My brother with a shoe, and me, with a belt on the more severe cases. We are both rather aggressive people now, and I have even recently punched my boyfriend twice over a small argument, while my brother has had several violent moments worse then I. On the other hand, my mother has rarely ever been spanked, and she is not violent in the least. She can get angry, yeah, but not physically. [B]I think a better alternative to spanking is time-outs, or specific grounding.[/B] Here are some sources to back up my studies claim: [quote]One of the hardest parts of being a parent is figuring out how to teach your child right from wrong. When your kid breaks a rule, do you talk things through? Stick him in a time-out chair? Take away his favorite toy? And then there’s spanking, an age-old discipline technique that parenting experts tend to disagree on. Is spanking an effective way to teach your kid a lesson? Canadian researchers dug through 20 years worth of published research to answer that question and they found that spanking fails to change a kid’s behavior and it can cause long-term damage. The study, published this week in the Canadian Medical Association Journal, reveals that kids who are spanked are more likely to be depressed, aggressive, antisocial and anxious. They also tend to have lower IQs and as adults they’re more likely to have substance abuse problems and mental health issues. One study even showed that kids who were spanked are more likely to lie to avoid getting hit. Of the 80 studies reviewed a few indicated that spanking has no or little negative effect on children, but not one study proved that physical punishment enhances developmental health. Co-author Joan Durant, a professor at University of Manitoba, says the research clearly shows that spanking isn’t good for kids but the medical findings have long been overshadowed by a mindset that parents should have the right to decide how to discipline their children. Durant hopes the study will be a wake-up call to the parenting community and change the way we look at spanking. “We’re really past the point of calling this a controversy. That’s a word that’s used and I don’t know why, because in the research there really is no controversy,” Durant told Reuters. “If we had this level of consistency in findings in any other area of health, we would be acting on it. We’d be pulling out all the stops to work on the issue.” While spanking is less popular today than it was several decades ago, it’s still a widely used discipline technique. In a 2009 BabyCenter survey of 1,300 moms, 81 percent of moms said they were spanked as kids and 49 percent of those moms said they swat their own children. And last year, Tennessee pastor Michael Pearl made national news for the growing popularity of his pro-corporal punishment parenting book To Train Up A Child, which has sold over a half-million copies. Pearl told CNN that he represents 230 million parents who practice corporal chastisement on children in the name of God. Durant hopes this study will put a stop to spanking and lead the medical world to direct parents to other forms of discipline. “What we’re hoping is that physicians will take that message and do more to counsel parents around this and to help them understand that physical punishment isn’t getting them where they want to go,” she told Reuters. “If we had two or three studies that showed that if you took 500 mg of vitamin C a day you could reduce cancer risk, we would all be taking 500 mg of vitamin C a day,” Durant said. “Here, we have more than 80 studies, I would say more than 100, that show the same thing (about corporal punishment), and yet we keep calling it controversial.”[/quote] [url=http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/2012/02/07/study-spanking-causes-long-term-damage/]Source[/url] More studies: [url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983895,00.html[/url] [url]http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_123033.html[/url]

Agreeing with the OP's opinion, spanking seems like it's a dated and hostile way to punish a child and can be quite frightening for someone so small. Unless it's something that is really bad there's no reason to put a child through physical pain, something like a timeout chair or "naughty step" is much less scarring and as an alternative makes sense, since it forces children to sit still for a long period of time, something we all know is more or less impossible.

I believe spanking should be used in limited cases. Where they won't obey grounding, or time outs. Or go out of their way to disrespect the parent(s). And if that doesn't work, take their toys away. [B][I][U]And don't let them play Call of Duty.[/U][/I][/B] Or Garry's Mod... ... Or on the internet unsupervised in general. That shit can destroy a little kid.

As a last resort, and a limited one at that (don't go and beat your kid to within an inch of his life for fuck sakes). Sometimes a kid needs to be put in his place, but not before other options are explored in doing so. Haha I made a thread exactly on this in Mass Debate soon after the section was created, titled as thoughts on corporal punishment though. Whatev that thread is dead and this is a bit refreshing.

No. It's [B]never[/B] justifieable. If you need to actually physically hurt your kid, then you have since long completely failed as a parent. You don't fucking hurt children. How cowardly can you get? It's not needed anyway! In Sweden and a lot of other countries, any form of physical abuse is illegal. Yet we are not undisciplined in any way. What's your excuse?

Last resort for sure, should barely be used, if ever either way, there is likely a better and more effective option to take.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35805313]No. It's [B]never[/B] justifieable. If you need to actually physically hurt your kid, then you have since long completely failed as a parent. You don't fucking hurt children. How cowardly can you get?[/QUOTE] What if nothing you say or do will change your child's attitude? There are cases where there is nothing words or non-physical punishment can do anything. It's not a matter of failing as a parent, or being cowardly. It's failing and being cowardly, if you enjoy punishing your child. Edit to Edited Post: My excuse is that there IS times where there is NO way you can correct a child's attitude without physical intervention. What, are you going to scream at your child to stop killing poor defenseless animals and not physically stop him?

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35805313]No. It's [B]never[/B] justifieable. If you need to actually physically hurt your kid, then you have since long completely failed as a parent. You don't fucking hurt children. How cowardly can you get?[/QUOTE] Someone has obviously never had kids/never lived with younger siblings before. Some 3 year olds just never take no for an answer, you don't immediately go in with corporal punishment, but some times it will be all that's left.

[QUOTE=Zeriga;35805333]What if nothing you say or do will change your child's attitude? There are cases where there is nothing words or non-physical punishment can do anything. [B]It's not a matter of failing as a parent[/B], or being cowardly. It's failing, and being cowardly, if you enjoy punishing your child.[/QUOTE] Yes it is. 100 %. [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Antdawg;35805342]Someone has obviously never had kids/never lived with younger siblings before. Some 3 year olds just never take no for an answer, you don't immediately go in with corporal punishment, but some times it will be all that's left.[/QUOTE] I have younger siblings, and younger cousins. I have also worked at a kindergarten. I know how kids can be. Respect by means of violence is the worst form of respect, and again, you have failed if that is the only way you can control your kids.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35805344]Yes it is. 100 %. [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] I have younger siblings, and younger cousins. I have also worked at a kindergarten. I know how kids can be. Respect by means of violence is the worst form of respect, and again, you have failed if that is the only way you can control your kids.[/QUOTE] Okay. If my kid doesn't listen to anything I say I'll disown him. That will sure make be a less of a failure!

[QUOTE=Zeriga;35805358]Okay. If my kid doesn't listen to anything I say I'll disown him. That will sure make be a less of a failure![/QUOTE] You are just a terrible parent. Again, here in Sweden we don't ever hurt our kids. Yet we get along just fine. We are actually civilized over here and are not stuck in 19th-century methods.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35805369]You are just a terrible parent. Again, here in Sweden we don't ever hurt our kids. Yet we get along just fine. We are actually civilized over here and are not stuck in 19th-century methods.[/QUOTE] Implying that his stance is that only corporal punishment should ever be used? Did you read his first post? Yay to go with nationalism by the way.

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;35805369]You are just a terrible parent. Again, here in Sweden we don't ever hurt our kids. Yet we get along just fine. We are actually civilized over here and are not stuck in 19th-century methods.[/QUOTE] Yeah, your kids are grown up in that life style. Most of the kids in America are fucked up beyond all repair. Kids take after other kids. Edit: What a way to spent a 200th post.

[QUOTE=Zeriga;35805388]Yeah, your kids are grown up in that life style. Most of the kids in America are fucked up beyond all repair. Kids take after other kids. Edit: What a way to spent a 200th post.[/QUOTE] It's not smart to say just America, there are a few other countries (that I've heard of by other people that live there) that say the general youngin' populous is just about as... "Undesirable" (for lack of better words) as most of America's youngins. [B]But that is getting off topic.[/B]

[QUOTE=Antdawg;35805380]Implying that his stance is that only corporal punishment should ever be used? Did you read his first post? Yay to go with nationalism by the way.[/QUOTE] I like how you brought up some imaginary nationalism being portrayed, that is quite the stretch, and a good method at dodging the debate that you are losing. Corporal punishment is only capable of stopping a behavior in that moment with fear and pain, that is disgusting to keep your kid from expressing themselves by giving them painful reactions, that's just terrible. [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeriga;35805388]Yeah, your kids are grown up in that life style. Most of the kids in America are fucked up beyond all repair. Kids take after other kids. Edit: What a way to spent a 200th post.[/QUOTE] Actually a lot of kids are fucked up because their parents didn't learn how to parent worth shit because their parents relied on hitting them and shit, the last generation was a joke in terms of every fucking thing I swear to god.

[QUOTE=Clementine;35805408]I like how you brought up some imaginary nationalism being portrayed, that is quite the stretch, and a good method at dodging the debate that you are losing. Corporal punishment is only capable of stopping a behavior in that moment with fear and pain, that is disgusting to keep your kid from expressing themselves by giving them painful reactions, that's just terrible.[/QUOTE] Oh I'm sorry, what would you consider this? [QUOTE][b]here in Sweden[/b] we don't ever hurt our kids. Yet we get along just fine. [b]We are actually civilized over here[/b][/QUOTE] Maybe you should criticise McCool for doing some low blows aye. Thanks for derailing thread as well.

[QUOTE=Clementine;35805408]I like how you brought up some imaginary nationalism being portrayed, that is quite the stretch, and a good method at dodging the debate that you are losing. Corporal punishment is only capable of stopping a behavior in that moment with fear and pain, that is disgusting to keep your kid from expressing themselves by giving them painful reactions, that's just terrible.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but what? Keeping your kid from expressing themselves? How is doing something bad, like painting all over the wall with mommy's makeup when they know it's wrong, expressing themselves? I change my opinion slightly. Upon thought, "Corporal punishment" is only acceptable in my eyes when every other reasonable option has been explored. If there's NOTHING else that seems to work, try that, [B]and if it doesn't work, never ever bother to do it again.[/B] Because if it doesn't work the first time it won't work the second. Because a kid you're trying to punish could just easily disobey. Take thing away: They find it or do something else as a substitute, making it have no effect. Or they rebel and do more bad things in "revenge." Time out: They just leave and disobey. Locking them in their room isn't a nice thing to do but if there is a window in their room they have the ability to open, they could open that, or hurt themselves trying to break the door open. Grounding: There are many ways to ground a child and most of those ways can be circumvented.

[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;35805420]I'm sorry, but what? Keeping your kid from expressing themselves? How is doing something bad, like painting all over the wall with mommy's makeup when they know it's wrong, expressing themselves? Upon thought, "Corporal punishment" is only acceptable in my eyes when every other reasonable option has been explored. If there's NOTHING else that seems to work, try that, [B]and if it doesn't work, never ever bother to do it again.[/B] Because if it doesn't work the first time it won't work the second.[/QUOTE] I am high doubting that a child would do something they know is wrong just for the fuck of it, they likely don't actually understand what they're doing, and are expressing themselves creatively, and giving them pain for it is wrong. [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] And yes, it should be a last resort, the absolute last, and if anyone were to actually come to it means they are a bad parent because there are so many different and better ways of dealing with issues. Unfortunately it requires the parent to actually give a rat's ass and spend some fucking time learning how to parent. [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Antdawg;35805418]Oh I'm sorry, what would you consider this? Maybe you should criticise McCool for doing some low blows aye. Thanks for derailing thread as well.[/QUOTE] Its less about nationalism and more about supporting the ideology he is already supporting anyway

[QUOTE=Clementine;35805428]I am high doubting that a child would do something they know is wrong just for the fuck of it, they likely don't actually understand what they're doing, and are expressing themselves creatively, and giving them pain for it is wrong.[/QUOTE] And that's where you fail to understand Child Psychology. A child can, and will do something wrong just for kicks.

[QUOTE=Clementine;35805428]I am high doubting that a child would do something they know is wrong just for the fuck of it, they likely don't actually understand what they're doing, and are expressing themselves creatively, and giving them pain for it is wrong. [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] And yes, it should be a last resort, the absolute last, and if anyone were to actually come to it means they are a bad parent because there are so many different and better ways of dealing with issues. Unfortunately it requires the parent to actually give a rat's ass and spend some fucking time learning how to parent.[/QUOTE] What about the 3 year old who tries to hurt her 1 year old sister because she reckons that her mum isn't giving her (the 3 year old) enough attention when in reality both are receiving an equal amount?

[QUOTE=Antdawg;35805446]What about the 3 year old who tries to hurt her 1 year old sister because she reckons that her mum isn't giving her (the 3 year old) enough attention when in reality both are receiving an equal amount?[/QUOTE] Actually now THAT should not be met with physical abuse...

[QUOTE=Clementine;35805428]I am high doubting that a child would do something they know is wrong just for the fuck of it, they likely don't actually understand what they're doing, and are expressing themselves creatively, and giving them pain for it is wrong. [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] And yes, it should be a last resort, the absolute last, and if anyone were to actually come to it means they are a bad parent because there are so many different and better ways of dealing with issues. Unfortunately it requires the parent to actually give a rat's ass and spend some fucking time learning how to parent.[/QUOTE] Oh, I know a kid can just disrespect the parent and do something knowing it's wrong. There's these two little boys that run around on our street (Nicknamed the Neighborhood Terrorists) that do shit all the time and they know they aren't supposed to. Like picking up rocks and throwing them at vehicles, taking their bike handles and [I]grinding it against people's cars,[/I] (my dad's F-150's tailgate was a victim of that) and tree/bush abuse when my father and many of our irritated neighbors have told them not to do such a thing, and so have their parents. And I'm sure they've punished them. Though the "creative" part... I can see where I messed up there. Sorry.

[QUOTE=Zeriga;35805443]And that's where you fail to understand Child Psychology. A child can, and will do something wrong just for kicks.[/QUOTE] Well teach them how that's wrong then, don't see how hurting them makes any sense, especially when its just a child being a child, growing up 'n shit. [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Antdawg;35805446]What about the 3 year old who tries to hurt her 1 year old sister because she reckons that her mum isn't giving her (the 3 year old) enough attention when in reality both are receiving an equal amount?[/QUOTE] Hurt them for feeling inferior? Makes sense to me :downs:

[QUOTE=Clementine;35805454]Well teach them how that's wrong then, don't see how hurting them makes any sense, especially when its just a child being a child, growing up 'n shit.[/QUOTE] At age 7 a Child starts recognizing right from wrong and developing their own opinions, right or wrong. They have to be corrected in an appropriate manner relating to the problem at hand. I do not believe in spanking for every wrong thing they do. Now THAT is cruel.

[QUOTE=Zeriga;35805451]Actually now THAT should not be met with physical abuse...[/QUOTE] I was replying to his statement that kids don't know what they are doing is wrong, not that I was suggesting corporal punishment you fool... [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Clementine;35805454]Hurt them for feeling inferior? Makes sense to me :downs:[/QUOTE] I swear... Maybe I should refer to my original post before people go and make assumptions simply because they can't read. [QUOTE=Antdawg;35805245]As a last resort, and a limited one at that (don't go and beat your kid to within an inch of his life for fuck sakes). Sometimes a kid needs to be put in his place, but not before other options are explored in doing so.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Antdawg;35805471]I was replying to his statement that kids don't know what they are doing is wrong, not that I was suggesting corporal punishment you fool... [editline]3rd May 2012[/editline] I swear...[/QUOTE] It sort of looks like you were not being clear in your statement.

I only got hit once, I was mostly afraid to do bad shit because my mom put the fear of her wrath into me, that or she would threaten to call my dad.

I've never been hit by my parents, only verbally warned and grounded multiple times. Honestly I dislike the thought of hitting a kid, I believe that if a kid doesn't change if he's grounded multiple times, then you can spank him. Not break out the bat and beat him to death.

I think it depends on the child. This is all personal experience so you can disregard it if you want but this is just my view. I was smacked on occasion as a child (only if I did something really bad and wouldn't listen to warnings, didn't happen much) and that would result in me sulking for a while. Then I'd calm down and my mum would talk to me, give me a hug, and everything would be ok again. I was never scared of my parents (we get on great!), I did respect them though, and I am not an aggressive person in any way. Confiscating my toys however was like mental torture. If someone tried taking my toys as a punishment I would get hysterical and this would go on for a long long time. To this day I am still very touchy and paranoid about my belongings and reluctant to lend people stuff. Needless to say my mum didn't use this on me when she saw how much it upset me. Some children may have the opposite reaction, get hysterical over being smacked and sulk if their toys are confiscated. Kids all react differently. There's many ways to discipline a child and parents have to simply find what ways work for both them and for their child. I don't think smacking should ever be the default punishment, more of a last resort after fair warning. I don't think beating the hell out of your children is ok, and I think it's sick if you enjoy punishing your kid. I just disagree that occasional smacking is the worst punishment ever and that the alternatives are always less damaging for your child.

[QUOTE=Zeriga;35805200] [B][I][U]And don't let them play Call of Duty.[/U][/I][/B] Or Garry's Mod... [/QUOTE] If he is like 7 or so that's okay,but you probably played violent video games back in your day.