'The Trump slump': Remington files for bankruptcy as gun sales tumble
36 replies, posted
[quote]With Trump in the White House, America’s gun manufacturers are in trouble after a golden era under Barack Obama
After a golden era of sales under Barack Obama, America’s gun manufacturers are in trouble. Sales have tumbled, leaving the companies with too much stock on their hands and falling revenues. The crunch claimed its biggest victim this week when Remington filed for bankruptcy.
In December, American Outdoor Brands, the owner of Smith & Wesson, reported that its profits had fallen 90% year over year, from $32m to just $3.2m. Sales fell 36%. Last October, Sturm Ruger, the US’s largest firearm manufacturer, announced its quarterly revenues had fallen 35%. Both companies will report their latest results shortly but neither is expected to announce a dramatic increase in sales.
“They call it the Trump slump,” said Robert Spitzer, a professor at the State University of New York at Cortland and the author of five books on guns.
“Gun sales have become politicized to a great degree,” he said. “Gun purchases recently have been made not just because someone wants a new product but to make a statement; not just because of fears that there might be tighter regulation but also to make a statement against Obama.”
[/quote]
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/13/remington-bankruptcy-guns-trump-slump-sales[/url]
Polidicks coz this will probs get spicey
Assuming the connection between Trump and declining gun sales is inferred correctly; it's ironic that (marginally) gun control democrats are actually for good the gun industry (or at least those ailing companies).
Also an observation - just to get things kicked off - if an industry is only successful coz of paranoia and "statement buying" then it's sorta lame. I also infer this might be the intention for groups like the NRA, rack up paranoia to keep gun sales going.
And so with no further ado - discuss
Sort of sad to see one of the most iconic manufacturers of hunting arms go down like this.
That being said, you gotta love the irony of pro-gun candidates causing the gun industry to go down v:v:v
They've gone bankrupt because everyone now knows they've gone to shit in the last decade or more. You just have to look at /k/ to see almost everyone saying good riddance.
[QUOTE=download;53130713]They've gone bankrupt because everyone now knows they've gone to shit in the last decade or more. You just have to look at /k/ to see almost everyone saying good riddance.[/QUOTE]
The article does mention a decline in gun ownership in America since the 70s still, Remington's probably just been hit the hardest out of all the manufacturers because they're garbage. If other manufacturers don't adjust their business models towards smaller userbases, the other big names could follow suit at some point.
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;53130718]The article does mention a decline in gun ownership in America since the 70s still, Remington's probably just been hit the hardest out of all the manufacturers because they're garbage. If other manufacturers don't adjust their business models towards smaller userbases, the other big names could follow suit at some point.[/QUOTE]
hasn't colt also gone bankrupt recently as well?
[editline]14th February 2018[/editline]
ya the big manufacturers are seemingly in a perpetual "going out of business" mode because the people actually buying lots and lots of guns are big horders not a growing base, and anicdotally, I blame the NRA, they are basically a terrorist organization at this point if you look at their marketing. they are driving away millenials from firearms, or at least the manufacturers they represent
[QUOTE=Sableye;53130775]hasn't colt also gone bankrupt recently as well?[/QUOTE]
I think they had a restructuring a couple of years ago, yeah.
They don't have a problem with quality control though, so much as they seem to think having "Colt" in their name entitles them to slap an extra $300-$500 on the price tag of a product in a market saturated with low-cost alternatives. They're trying to coast on reputation, same as Remington.
[QUOTE=Sableye;53130775]hasn't colt also gone bankrupt recently as well?[/QUOTE]
Looks like they went bankrupt in 2015, came back in 2016 and have since closed multiple divisions like Colt Canada, Colt Advanced Systems and the Custom Shop to presumably bring expenses down.
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;53130718]The article does mention a decline in gun ownership in America since the 70s still, Remington's probably just been hit the hardest out of all the manufacturers because they're garbage. If other manufacturers don't adjust their business models towards smaller userbases, the other big names could follow suit at some point.[/QUOTE]
Gun sales have been climbing for a long time.
Remington guns have been hot garbage since Freedom Group took ownership, it's gotten to a point where Chinese knockoffs of the 870 are better quality than the dogshit Remington is selling now.
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;53130718]The article does mention a decline in gun ownership in America since the 70s still, Remington's probably just been hit the hardest out of all the manufacturers because they're garbage. If other manufacturers don't adjust their business models towards smaller userbases, the other big names could follow suit at some point.[/QUOTE]
It's a bit hard to say if gun ownership has gone down. Surveys seem to suggest so, but gun sales are definitely going up, and a lot of gun owners avoid saying they own guns on surveys.
It is commonly claimed that fewer people own guns but the people who do own them own more of them. That's a possibility, but I think it's more like this: every year, there are more guns in the country than in the year prior, since more are added than are removed, which means used guns become more and more plentiful, which means more and more people are buying used guns in private sales, which go completely unreported, on top of sales of new guns trending up, which makes it hard to get an accurate reading. Granted, I live in Texas, but almost everyone I know owns a gun. Most do own several including myself but literally almost everybody has at least one.
Anyway, Remington went under because it blows dicks and has nothing to do with the legendary Remington that made some the finest guns of their time.
[QUOTE=Sableye;53130775]hasn't colt also gone bankrupt recently as well?
[editline]14th February 2018[/editline]
ya the big manufacturers are seemingly in a perpetual "going out of business" mode because the people actually buying lots and lots of guns are big horders not a growing base, and anicdotally, I blame the NRA, they are basically a terrorist organization at this point if you look at their marketing. they are driving away millenials from firearms, or at least the manufacturers they represent[/QUOTE]
The NRA sucks but they're the devil we know. Without them who knows where we'd be. I really hate that we need to use the NRA as kind of an emergency brake. The problem with the NRA is that when they start worrying that they're getting too close to achieving their stated goal, they stir up a panic in the media to make themselves relevant again. They have stopped a lot of bullshit but it's hard to say how much of that bullshit was their own invention.
I don't think they're driving millennials away from firearms by themselves but their propaganda bullshit definitely causes upset tummies in the media which gets filtered around through young minds. The alt right scare in this country caused a lot of people on the left to get into guns, though, we haven't really metered the impact of that on the industry yet. I hope they stick around in the gun community personally.
Freedom Group should sell Remington to another conglomerate. Their quality went to hell, and this is the result.
Gun sales always plummet during a Republican administration and spike when a Democrat is in office because of paranoid conspiracy theorists. Just look at 2009-2016, every time there was a mass shooting gun sales spiked because groups like the NRA fueled paranoia of the Obama administration coming to steal everyone's guns.
Remington has been stumbling for a couple years. Their quality has gone down despite prices either staying the same or even going up.
All these big old fuckers like Remington and Colt are doing nothing for the industry but sitting on patents. If they can't innovate and can't produce at a consistently good quality level, it's time for them to die and stay dead. Colt's $2000-something repro SP-1s should've been their death knell. Let actual innovators with a dedication to quality have their market share.
[QUOTE=Omali;53130895]Gun sales always plummet during a Republican administration and spike when a Democrat is in office because of paranoid conspiracy theorists. Just look at 2009-2016, every time there was a mass shooting gun sales spiked because groups like the NRA fueled paranoia of the Obama administration coming to steal everyone's guns.[/QUOTE]
In NY there was mass panic-buying of ARs after Sandy Hook, and then the SAFE Act passed to ban new sales of them. Similar deal in Connecticut and California. We haven't seen any federal legislation since the AWB sunset in 2004 but there's been a lot of new state regulation since then.
Anyways, the 'Trump Slump' is less a cause of death and more the last nail in the coffin. Ever since they got bought by Freedom Group in 2007 their quality has gone to crap.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;53130695][url]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/13/remington-bankruptcy-guns-trump-slump-sales[/url]
Polidicks coz this will probs get spicey
Assuming the connection between Trump and declining gun sales is inferred correctly; it's ironic that (marginally) gun control democrats are actually for good the gun industry (or at least those ailing companies).
Also an observation - just to get things kicked off - if an industry is only successful coz of paranoia and "statement buying" then it's sorta lame. I also infer this might be the intention for groups like the NRA, rack up paranoia to keep gun sales going.
And so with no further ado - discuss[/QUOTE]
It's been widely known for a while now that Barrack Obama being in office made the gun industry boom like crazy. They constantly said he was going to take away their guns, and whenever gun regulation was a hot topic (like after a shooting) sales boom for a short while.
[editline]14th February 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=download;53130809]Gun sales have been climbing for a long time.[/QUOTE]
Not true. They have skyrocketed under Obama's administration to, honestly, an unsustainable level for the industry. It's just the same amount of people just buying more guns over and over - gun ownership hasn't risen but sales have.
[img]http://cdn.aliengearholsters.com/media/wysiwyg/atf-gun-sales-statistics.jpg[/img]
[editline]14th February 2018[/editline]
Just checked with the National Shooting Sports Foundation and their statistics say that the industry has grown between 150-200% from 2008 to 2016, which is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53130881]It's a bit hard to say if gun ownership has gone down. Surveys seem to suggest so, but gun sales are definitely going up, and a lot of gun owners avoid saying they own guns on surveys.
It is commonly claimed that fewer people own guns but the people who do own them own more of them. That's a possibility, but I think it's more like this: every year, there are more guns in the country than in the year prior, since more are added than are removed, which means used guns become more and more plentiful, which means more and more people are buying used guns in private sales, which go completely unreported, on top of sales of new guns trending up, which makes it hard to get an accurate reading. Granted, I live in Texas, but almost everyone I know owns a gun. Most do own several including myself but literally almost everybody has at least one.
Anyway, Remington went under because it blows dicks and has nothing to do with the legendary Remington that made some the finest guns of their time.
The NRA sucks but they're the devil we know. Without them who knows where we'd be. I really hate that we need to use the NRA as kind of an emergency brake. The problem with the NRA is that when they start worrying that they're getting too close to achieving their stated goal, they stir up a panic in the media to make themselves relevant again. They have stopped a lot of bullshit but it's hard to say how much of that bullshit was their own invention.
I don't think they're driving millennials away from firearms by themselves but their propaganda bullshit definitely causes upset tummies in the media which gets filtered around through young minds. The alt right scare in this country caused a lot of people on the left to get into guns, though, we haven't really metered the impact of that on the industry yet. I hope they stick around in the gun community personally.[/QUOTE]
dude, if the NRA weren't the face of gun ownership in this country the DNC would be a lot more gun-friendly. they're litterally building a brand around gun ownership that dictates ones social beliefs, politics, and ethnicity and religion.
Working in the gun industry there are two big things everybody knows. The 1st is the best gun salesmen in history have been democratic presidents and Diane Fienstein. The 2nd is that Remington went to shit when they sold to Freedom Group (now named Remington Outdoors) in 07'.
Remington has been on the decline for the last decade, the recent slump in overall sales was just the final nail in the coffin. That's what happens when you refuse to innovate and lessen the quality of your products while maintaining the same prices.
Remington has been in this slump for quiet a long time though, and as mentioned by everyone, when they got bought out by the Freedom Group, their QA went too shit. It's very common for things to come broken in the box, and needing to be repaired at the factory.
Honestly, I feel bad because I do love Remington guns, but nostalgic love and crappy AR-15 parts will not protect them this time around.
Also for the discussion regarding the "Trump Slump" it's a known thing. Gun companies make more money because of barrel-scrappers and panic buyers. It's also the reason why the whole concept of gun control in this country is silly at best. You'll just have people panic buy firearms, and their will be a huge surplus floating around. :v:
This was a long time coming.
As everyone else has said so far, Remingtons quality right now is a joke and went down the shitter ever since they were brought out by the Freedom Group. And it really is a shame.
Not surprised they mentioned Americans Outdoors Brands. I’ve lost $250 off my initial investment into them because their stocks literally halved in value since Trump took office.
Cheap guns and ammo is probably the only good thing that came out of this timeline as opposed to the one where Clinton won.
[QUOTE]
“Gun sales have become politicized to a great degree,” he said. “Gun purchases recently have been made not just because someone wants a new product but to make a statement; not just because of fears that there might be tighter regulation but also to make a statement against Obama.”[/QUOTE]
I wish I could spend several hundred dollars on a political statement.
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;53130783]Looks like they went bankrupt in 2015, came back in 2016 and have since closed multiple divisions like Colt Canada, Colt Advanced Systems and the Custom Shop to presumably bring expenses down.[/QUOTE]
Colt Canada isn't closed and I can't find any article or reference that it was/has closed
[QUOTE=Omali;53130895]Gun sales always plummet during a Republican administration and spike when a Democrat is in office because of paranoid conspiracy theorists. Just look at 2009-2016, every time there was a mass shooting gun sales spiked because [B]groups like the NRA fueled paranoia of the Obama administration coming to steal everyone's guns.[/B][/QUOTE]
Wanting politicians to not pass dumb knee-jerk legislation in response to bad things which happen means you're a paranoid conspiritard now. :what: I mean have you seen some of the shit politicians propose after every major mass shooting?
Yeah it totally had nothing to do with the president Obama's rhetoric or expressing his desire to implement another meaningless assault weapons ban. It had nothing to do with the fact that hypocrites like Dianne Feinstein exist. Everything is completely the fault of the NRA. :rolleyes:
I mean sure the NRA is basically cancer but now you're just failing to acknowledge the plainly obvious fact that some politicians do want to systematically dismantle gun rights, which is pretty much why the NRA is so big in the first place.
[QUOTE=Sableye;53131066]dude, if the NRA weren't the face of gun ownership in this country the DNC would be a lot more gun-friendly. [/QUOTE]
I'm not at all a fan of the NRA but that's not what history shows; the DNC pushed the Federal Assault Weapons ban in 1994 and the NRA leadership [I]supported[/I] it. The NRA's current, rabid, hardline stance is a product of its membership voting out all the leadership who supported the AWB and other Democrat-led gun control measures and replacing them with people who would fight tooth and nail against any new legislation.
In other words, you're making it sound like the Democrats are strongly anti-gun because the NRA is extreme, when in reality the NRA went extreme in response to the Democrats' strongly anti-gun policies. The NRA could disappear overnight and there is no reason whatsoever it would have any effect on the DNC, except perhaps to embolden them to try harder.
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;53132001]Everything is completely the fault of the NRA. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Nobody said this so cool your jets and stop being hyperbolic. Also it doesn’t help that the NRA is pretty much inciting violence with far-right propaganda videos these days, saying that they’ve fueled paranoia shouldn’t be a particularly controversial statement.
so weird. is it wrong for me to interpret this as if gun regulations (or fear of gun regulations) are good business for gun companies?
[QUOTE=SKEEA;53130886]Freedom Group should sell Remington to another conglomerate. Their quality went to hell, and this is the result.[/QUOTE]
Also they're repeatedly tried to break into the pistol market with the R51 and RP9, but both have been complete failures.
[QUOTE=Flameon;53132204]so weird. is it wrong for me to interpret this as if gun regulations (or fear of gun regulations) are good business for gun companies?[/QUOTE]
They are. My parents bought their first guns in their 50 year lives when Obama threatened regulation in 2012.
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;53130783]Looks like they went bankrupt in 2015, came back in 2016 and have since closed multiple divisions like Colt Canada, Colt Advanced Systems and the Custom Shop to presumably bring expenses down.[/QUOTE]
They most certainly have not closed Colt Canada. Colt Canada produces all the firearms for the Canadian military, and ones for various European armies. Colt Canada is doing quite well for itself.
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