Climate scientists will launch anonymous hotline for government workers to report Trump meddling - Polidicks

[quote] Climate scientists are predicting rough weather for their profession in 2017. US president-elect Donald Trump’s statements on climate change, his appointments to head environmental agencies, and the threatening actions of his transition team all have the nation’s weather professionals on alert and preparing for the worst. The Center for Science and Democracy at the [URL="http://www.ucsusa.org/"]Union of Concerned Scientists[/URL] in Cambridge, Massachusetts, has established a hotline for [URL="http://www.noaa.gov/"]National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration[/URL] (NOAA) employees to report political meddling. There’s currently concern among NOAA scientists about who Trump’s pick to head the agency will be. “I am hearing a lot of worry,” union director Andrew Rosenberg [URL="https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-12-20/trump-climate-deniers-prompt-scared-scientists-to-set-up-hotline"]told Bloomberg[/URL]. “The worry is that they will be putting another ideologue in place.” Fearful that a Trump administration might destroy or bury climate-science findings, scientists are also [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/13/scientists-are-frantically-copying-u-s-climate-data-fearing-it-might-vanish-under-trump/?utm_term=.74676e3bfbbf&wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1"]collaborating[/URL] on ways to preserve existing government data on independent servers. At a “[URL="https://ischool.utoronto.ca/content/guerrilla-archiving-event-saving-environmental-data-trump"]guerrilla archiving[/URL]” event in Toronto on Dec. 17, volunteers copied irreplaceable public data in case of emergency deletion. Scientists and database experts at the University of Pennsylvania are collaborating on mass downloads of federal data, compiling them [URL="http://climatemirror.org/"]online[/URL] to harbor scientific information. “Something that seemed a little paranoid to me before all of a sudden seems potentially realistic, or at least something you’d want to hedge against,” said Nick Santos, an environmental researcher at the University of California at Davis, told [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/13/scientists-are-frantically-copying-u-s-climate-data-fearing-it-might-vanish-under-trump/?utm_term=.b55b07dc6d32&wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1"]the Washington Post[/URL].[/quote] [URL]http://qz.com/868058/climate-scientists-are-launching-an-anonymous-hotline-for-government-workers-to-report-trump-meddling/[/URL] Absolutely necessary, I would say. I am awfully concerned about the Trump administration's approach to climate change.

Isn't this completely unprecedented? Won't they be able to tap these phone lines and figure out who uses them?

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51561908]Isn't this completely unprecedented? Won't they be able to tap these phone lines and figure out who uses them?[/QUOTE] It's like the communist hunt, but with environmentalists.

it's pathetic that this is what we have to resort to now

[QUOTE=salty peanut v2;51561989]it's pathetic that this is what we have to resort to now[/QUOTE] The Turner Diaries except with environment ilists as the. Main. Characters

USA (and by relation pretty much the rest of the western world) is going to be so fucked in the following 4 years it's not even funny anymore.

Aren't they a bit paranoid about this, sure Trump got a different view when it comes to climate changes but all the steps they are taking seem a bit excessive to me.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562097]Aren't they a bit paranoid about this, sure Trump got a different view when it comes to climate changes but all the steps they are taking seem a bit excessive to me.[/QUOTE] Absolutely not. Trump and Co is, from what we know so far, are completely against the idea of trying to fix climate change, because they believe it isn't profitable.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562097]Aren't they a bit paranoid about this, sure Trump got a different view when it comes to climate changes but all the steps they are taking seem a bit excessive to me.[/QUOTE] Given the dire situation with the environment today, is it really worth not doing this just in case?

[QUOTE=Samiam22;51562104]Absolutely not. Trump and Co is, from what we know so far, are completely against the idea of trying to fix climate change, because they believe it isn't profitable.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51562119]Given the dire situation with the environment today, is it really worth not doing this just in case?[/QUOTE] He is not even in office yet and besides what is going to do round up all the climate scientists in the US and destroy there data in one big bon fire? Maybe he will just cut subsidies for green tech so it will be forced to become more competitive and not need any subsidies to stay a float. I swear all this fear mongering regarding Trump and what he might to do is just getting ridiculous.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562193]He is not even in office yet and besides what is going to do round up all the climate scientists in the US and destroy there data in one big bon fire? Maybe he will just cut subsidies for green tech so it will be forced to become more competitive and not need subsidies to stay a float. I swear all this fear mongering regarding Trump and what he might to do is just getting ridiculous.[/QUOTE] In Canada the defunding of climate database resulted in destruction of a climate data. That's what they are trying to avoid here. Not ridiculous in the least.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562193]He is not even in office yet and besides what is going to do round up all the climate scientists in the US and destroy there data in one big bon fire? Maybe he will just cut subsidies for green tech so it will be forced to become more competitive and not need subsidies to stay a float. I swear all this fear mongering regarding Trump and what he might to do is just getting ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Oil, gas, and coal take more government subsidies than solar and other alternative energy systems. Climate change is a significant threat to geopolitical stability, and the national security of the United States. Coastal areas are already seeing economic damage, and it's hitting small businesses and farmers first.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562097]Aren't they a bit paranoid about this, sure Trump got a different view when it comes to climate changes but all the steps they are taking seem a bit excessive to me.[/QUOTE] this is the most violently anti-science cabinet assembled under the most anti-science president we have ever had, also we no longer have the luxury of time to flip flop on this with every changing administration

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562193]He is not even in office yet and besides what is going to do round up all the climate scientists in the US and destroy there data in one big bon fire? Maybe he will just cut subsidies for green tech so it will be forced to become more competitive and not need any subsidies to stay a float. I swear all this fear mongering regarding Trump and what he might to do is just getting ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Haven't they already started sending out "questionnaires" to government employees to see who has been involved in climate change related activities?

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562193]He is not even in office yet and besides what is going to do round up all the climate scientists in the US and destroy there data in one big bon fire? Maybe he will just cut subsidies for green tech so it will be forced to become more competitive and not need any subsidies to stay a float. I swear all this fear mongering regarding Trump and what he might to do is just getting ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Again, with the dire situation the climate is having, do you want to take the risk that he just [I]may[/I] not follow the anti-climate change rhetoric he's had for I don't even remember how long, [I]and then[/I] make his extremely anti-climate change cabinet members suddenly change mind? This isn't about what he may do or may not do. This is deciding not to gamble with it.

Better dead then green apparently... red scare 2.0

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51562221]Oil, gas, and coal take more government subsidies than solar and other alternative energy systems. Climate change is a significant threat to geopolitical stability, and the national security of the United States. Coastal areas are already seeing economic damage, and it's hitting small businesses and farmers first.[/QUOTE] Resources like Oil, gas, and coal are not only used in the energy industry so subsidising those has not only to do with energy. [QUOTE=Vlevs;51562204]In Canada the defunding of climate database resulted in destruction of a climate data. That's what they are trying to avoid here. Not ridiculous in the least.[/QUOTE] Well i did a search for it and was able to find that yes Canada did remove some monitering stations and removed some data. But what exact data regarding climate change they removed i am unable to find. So you got any sources on what exact data was lost in Canada regarding climate change? [QUOTE=Sableye;51562234]this is the most violently anti-science cabinet assembled under the most anti-science president we have ever had, also we no longer have the luxury of time to flip flop on this with every changing administration[/QUOTE] So just because he got a more skeptical view on climate change makes him immediately anti science? Or did i just miss some speech he gave where he said he will build a wall against science.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562340] So just because he got a more skeptical view on climate change makes him immediately anti science? Or did i just miss some speech he gave where he said he will build a wall against science.[/QUOTE] No but you most certainly missed the talk on how climate change is a chinese scam and "no one really knows" anything about the climate.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51562357]No but you most certainly missed the talk on how climate change is a chinese scam and "no one really knows" anything about the climate.[/QUOTE] Then i guess i missed this aswell [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562340]Resources like Oil, gas, and coal are not only used in the energy industry so subsidising those has not only to do with energy.[/QUOTE] What percentage of those subsidies are going to these other uses? This is also a pretty weak justification for the subsidies overall if you're also campaigning to eliminate subsidies to alternative energy. [QUOTE] Well i did a search for it and was able to find that yes Canada did remove some monitering stations and removed some data. But what exact data regarding climate change they removed i am unable to find. So you got any sources on what exact data was lost in Canada regarding climate change?[/QUOTE] Regardless of what data what data was lost, do you think that it's really unreasonable that scientists are setting up safeguards to prevent data from being lost of tampered with? [QUOTE] So just because he got a more skeptical view on climate change makes him immediately anti science? Or did i just miss some speech he gave where he said he will build a wall against science.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562373]Then i guess i missed this aswell [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html[/URL][/QUOTE] He's since changed his stance. [URL="https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-falsely-claims-nobody-knows-011747403.html"]This[/URL] is his most recent 'position'.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562373]Then i guess i missed this aswell [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html[/URL][/QUOTE] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1544980"] You[/URL] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1545442"]also[/URL] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1545307"]missed[/URL] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1544769"]these.[/URL]

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562373]Then i guess i missed this aswell [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html[/URL][/QUOTE] Good job finding the [I]only[/I] time he someone came a [I]tenth[/I] of the way to siding with climate change.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562340]Well i did a search for it and was able to find that yes Canada did remove some monitering stations and removed some data. But what exact data regarding climate change they removed i am unable to find. So you got any sources on what exact data was lost in Canada regarding climate change[/QUOTE] [quote] In the first few days of 2014, scientists, journalists, and environmentalists were horrified to discover that the Harper government had begun a process to close seven of the 11 of Canada's world-renowned Department of Fisheries and Oceans libraries, citing a consolidation and digitizing effort as the reason. [B]Reports immediately proliferated that the process was undertaken in careless haste[/B], with the officials sent to gather and transfer the documents allegedly neglecting to take proper inventory of the centuries' worth of documents containing vital information on environmental life, from aquatic ecosystems to water safety and polar research, with [B]some documents reportedly dumped in landfills or burned, leading some scientists to refer to it as a 'libricide.[/B]'[/quote] [URL="https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/the-harper-government-has-trashed-and-burned-environmental-books-and-documents"]https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/the-harper-government-has-trashed-and-burned-environmental-books-and-documents [/URL] [B]Edit:[/B] Was mistaken on details. Not climate change data per se, but old old records on oceans that are useful in climate research.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562373]Then i guess i missed this aswell [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html[/URL][/QUOTE] Actions speak louder than words. And with Trump's selection of candidates & their individual actions, well, it's clear the acknowledgement of climate change is overridden by the need for more money.

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562193]He is not even in office yet [...][/QUOTE] There are so many signs that this is going to be really bad, so there's really no reason not to cover all possibilities just in case. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. This whole [I]"he's not even in office yet"[/I] is literally the real world politics version of [I]"how do you know it's shit? it isn't even out yet."[/I]

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51562193] Maybe he will just cut subsidies for green tech so it will be forced to become more competitive and not need any subsidies to stay a float. [/QUOTE] There is absolutely nothing that could potentially become a competitive market about climate studies. No consumers are interested in buying climate data, especially not if the only use is to see how far we fucked up so far. Solar/ Green energy could be competitive but due to its expenses has no leg to stand on against cheaper, more widely available oil and coal energy (especially once the regulations are thrashed). To remove subsidies from these sectors and "Let them become competitive" will quite simply be the end of the system. There is no basis to provide a competitive market.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51562381]What percentage of those subsidies are going to these other uses? This is also a pretty weak justification for the subsidies overall if you're also campaigning to eliminate subsidies to alternative energy.[/QUOTE] I was not advocating for subsidies to be cut i was merely giving a a example of what Trump might do. [QUOTE=Vlevs;51562398][URL="https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/the-harper-government-has-trashed-and-burned-environmental-books-and-documents"]https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/the-harper-government-has-trashed-and-burned-environmental-books-and-documents [/URL] [B]Edit:[/B] Was mistaken on details. Not climate change data per se, but old old records on oceans that are useful in climate research.[/QUOTE] Well after reading that article i only see a incompetence but no deliberate attempt by the Canadian government to suppress information. So like i said in my first post i think they are just to paranoid.:tinfoil: [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51562382][URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1544980"] You[/URL] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1545442"]also[/URL] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1545307"]missed[/URL] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1544769"]these.[/URL][/QUOTE] Some of those i did but still nothing to worrying if you ask me. [QUOTE=Van-man;51562477]Actions speak louder than words. And with Trump's selection of candidates & their individual actions, well, it's clear the acknowledgement of climate change is overridden by the need for more money.[/QUOTE] But none of his policies have been implemented yet so like i said it is a bit premature to judge him on this already.

He literally said "nobody really knows" if climate change is real despite the fact we know it is completely and utterly real! How the hell can you not be worried that we have a science denier as President of the United States?

Is it really paranoia to state that 50% of the Netherlands will be flooded due to the choices that are likely going to be made by Trump's cabinet, which is easily backed up by accurate data?

[QUOTE=TheNukeNL;51563791] But none of his policies have been implemented yet so like i said it is a bit premature to judge him on this already.[/QUOTE] You know the ol' "It's still in beta, just wait until release" line? Yeah.