• AirAsia crash victims found
    62 replies, posted
[URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2890541/Indonesian-warship-sent-test-oil-spills-sea-missing-AirAsia-jet-came-s-revealed-pilot-denied-request-climb-stormy-weather.html"]Source[/URL] [QUOTE]Rescue workers searching for the doomed AirAsia flight 8501 have recovered six bodies from the Java Sea, Indonesian search and rescue teams have confirmed. Bodies were discovered alongside luggage, a plane door and an emergency slide in the water 100 miles off the coast of Borneo Island earlier today, following three days of searching. Officials have confirmed that the bodies and debris found in the Java Sea off Indonesia are from flight 8501, and a naval spokesman said the rescuers remain 'very busy' retrieving the victims. Despite an earlier claim by a navy spokesman that 40 bodies had been recovered, the figure was later corrected by the search agency Basarnas, which said that six bodies had been found so far. [/QUOTE] I hope 2015 fairs to be better. (whats the funny rating maxspeed)
Holy shit, we haven't even found the plane itself and it's already horrible. Crossing my fingers here the plane's blackbox can tell us what happened.
Looks like the plane went down or something. Fucking tragic, it's even worse since they've found the door and slide. Means the passengers were aware something was wrong and that they didn't die instantly.
[QUOTE=Duskin;46821885]Looks like the plane went down or something. Fucking tragic, it's even worse since they've found the door and slide. Means the passengers were aware something was wrong and that they didn't die instantly.[/QUOTE] If the plane broke apart midair then I don't find it unlikely that the door would separate from the plane too. If the pilot could tell they were going down then he probably would've may-day'd, but there wasn't a may-day, so it's far more likely that they were unconscious before they died. Which is probably better then suffering untill impact, so that's... good i guess?
[QUOTE=finbe;46821990]If the plane broke apart midair then I don't find it unlikely that the door would separate from the plane too. If the pilot could tell they were going down then he probably would've may-day'd, but there wasn't a may-day, so it's far more likely that they were unconscious before they died.[/QUOTE] sometimes a may day isn't called when the plane is in trouble, this plane could have been falling and they would've been too occupied in trying to take back the plane
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;46822001]sometimes a may day isn't called when the plane is in trouble, this plane could have been falling and they would've been too occupied in trying to take back the plane[/QUOTE] Usually you're going to try to fly the damn plane first
My guess is that because of the bad weather conditions (remember the pilot made a request to ATC to make a climb in altitude to get out of a storm), the plane must have been struck by lightning in a place where it shouldn't have. [QUOTE=fruxodaily;46822001]sometimes a may day isn't called when the plane is in trouble, this plane could have been falling and they would've been too occupied in trying to take back the plane[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=circuitbawx;46822010]Usually you're going to try to fly the damn plane first[/QUOTE] There is a co-pilot for this kind of stuff.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822023]My guess is that because of the bad weather conditions (remember the pilot made a request to ATC to make a climb in altitude to get out of a storm), the plane must have been struck by lightning in a place where it shouldn't have.[/QUOTE] A plane can take a lightning bolt hit.
I hope they find the black boxes in this case, and find out what really happend. It would not surprise me if all of those planes that have mysteriously disappeared are related to each other.
[QUOTE=Banned?;46822039]A plane can take a lightning bolt hit.[/QUOTE] True, but if it gets it in the right place, I'm sure it could do a lot of trouble. Say for example it would hit the cockpit itself. Even if the pilots were unharmed, I'm sure it would fuck with the avionics, or maybe even pop some fuse boxes somewhere.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822079]True, but if it gets it in the right place, I'm sure it could do a lot of trouble. Say for example it would hit the cockpit itself. Even if the pilots were unharmed, I'm sure it would fuck with the avionics, or maybe even pop some fuse boxes somewhere.[/QUOTE] Nah it wouldn't because they're built to withstand a lightning strike, anywhere, and I'm pretty sure regardless of point of impact the plane is built to deal with the current and voltage, since planes are built to be able to fly through storms.
Storm conditions can create a situation in which a plane's wings do not generate enough lift to maintain altitude. If that goes on long enough the aircraft will be falling too fast to recover by the time it exits that region. That said, they think it's mostly intact on the seafloor. It'll be interesting to see what the investigation turns up.
[QUOTE=Banned?;46822039]A plane can take a lightning bolt hit.[/QUOTE] our plane on our way to bali got hit by lightning on touchdown shakes like a motherfucker, and is pretty scary but i'm alive
[QUOTE=bravehat;46822094]Nah it wouldn't because they're built to withstand a lightning strike, anywhere, and I'm pretty sure regardless of point of impact the plane is built to deal with the current and voltage, since planes are built to be able to fly through storms.[/QUOTE] Well then I guess maybe this particular plane wasn't able to withstand as much lightning as the other ones. [QUOTE=Grenadiac;46822102]Storm conditions can create a situation in which a plane's wings do not generate enough lift to maintain altitude. If that goes on long enough the aircraft will be falling too fast to recover by the time it exits that region. That said, they think it's mostly intact on the seafloor. It'll be interesting to see what the investigation turns up.[/QUOTE] Oh I like this theory. If you get a strong enough headwind, you can literally lift a plane off the ground without really 'going' anywhere, just like how you can't launch a model plane off of a treadmill. It sounds reasonable to believe a tailwind would have the adverse affect, and make the plane lose all lift.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822115]Well then I guess maybe this particular plane wasn't able to withstand as much lightning as the other ones.[/QUOTE] All 737s can withstand lightning. This aircraft's maintenance record was apparently impeccable and the crew was highly experienced.
The chance of lightning bringing down a modern commercial plane is extremely rare, the last commercial plane downed by lighting was in 1967.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822115]Well then I guess maybe this particular plane wasn't able to withstand as much lightning as the other ones.[/QUOTE] Or more likely you're wrong and the plane wasn't shagged inside out by a bolt of lightning.
Must have been floating in the water for a few minutes before sinking. Hopefully intact on the seafloor and not scattered.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;46822126]All 737s can withstand lightning. This aircraft's maintenance record was apparently impeccable and the crew was highly experienced.[/QUOTE] It was an A320. Any interference would go away in a few seconds. Planes are designed to withstand the most powerful lightning strikes known to man with no damage to flight control systems. The FAA has very strict testing on critical electronics. Most planes are struck several times a year, IIRC.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822115]you can't launch a model plane off of a treadmill[/QUOTE]Yes you can.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46822182]Yes you can.[/QUOTE] That can be debated. What if you put a large fan behind the model plane + treadmill and turn it on? My point is that if your air speed is zero, you aren't flying. This can happen on the ground, just as much as this can happen in the air. Even if the plane is going 500km/h, if there is wind pushing it from behind also going 500 km/h, then the wings aren't providing any lift. That means that even though the plane is going 500km/h, it is still going to be falling out of the sky.
[QUOTE=NoobieWafer223;46822161]Must have been floating in the water for a few minutes before sinking. Hopefully intact on the seafloor and not scattered.[/QUOTE] [quote]"As we approached, the body seemed bloated," he told national Indonesian newspaper Kompas, adding that [B]he could see three of the "seven to eight bodies" were "holding hands".[/B] He also confirmed that the bodies were not wearing life jackets.[/quote] [quote]During the press conference, held at around 2pm local time, he said that search teams had seen a shadow underneath the water, allegedly in the shape of a plane [/quote] Makes you wonder if they were alive after an emergency landing. [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/missing-airasia-flight-qz8501-debris-spotted-by-indonesian-aircraft-in-search-for-missing-plane-9949402.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46822174]It was an A320. Any interference would go away in a few seconds. Planes are designed to withstand the most powerful lightning strikes known to man with no damage to flight control systems. The FAA has very strict testing on critical electronics. Most planes are struck several times a year, IIRC.[/QUOTE] I knew that, just a slip up. I was trying to find out specifically which model A320 it was before the official passenger count was released. I don't know why I put 737. [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46822246]Thats a different circumstance that has nothing to do with the treadmill. Treadmill does not affect the plane at all, the plane does not take off from the thrust of its wheels, it takes off from the thrust of its propeller/turbine/whatever.[/QUOTE] Right, the treadmill in that model only serves to keep the plane from rolling backwards due to drag.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822205]That can be debated. What if you put a large fan behind the model plane + treadmill and turn it on?[/QUOTE]Thats a different circumstance that has nothing to do with the treadmill. Treadmill does not affect the plane at all, the plane does not take off from the thrust of its wheels, it takes off from the thrust of its propeller/turbine/whatever.
If someone hypothetically were to kidnap a plane, and be branded as terrorist, and ask the government for something, what would it do? Deal with the terrorists essentially sending the message that "We do negotiate with terrorists" and pretty much declaring plane hijack season? Or would it sacrifice the plane with its passengers for the greater good, and keep quiet about it? Edit: Not saying this is what happened at all, I'm just wondering.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46822246]Thats a different circumstance that has nothing to do with the treadmill. Treadmill does not affect the plane at all, the plane does not take off from the thrust of its wheels, it takes off from the thrust of its propeller/turbine/whatever.[/QUOTE] The plane needs to reach a certain air speed before the wings can provide enough lift. Wind in any direction can directly affect this. Provided you have enough air coming from the back, the plane won't be able to get off the ground. Therefore all the plane will be doing is pulling itself along the treadmill. [QUOTE=proch;46822269]If someone hypothetically were to kidnap a plane, and be branded as terrorist, and ask the government for something, what would it do? Deal with the terrorists essentially sending the message that "We do negotiate with terrorists" and pretty much declaring plane hijack season? Or would it sacrifice the plane with its passengers for the greater good, and keep quiet about it?[/QUOTE] If I remember correctly, when a passenger gets unruly on an aircraft to the point they need an emergency landing, the states will usually scramble one or two fighter aircraft to escort that plane.
[QUOTE=proch;46822269]If someone hypothetically were to kidnap a plane, and be branded as terrorist, and ask the government for something, what would it do? Deal with the terrorists essentially sending the message that "We do negotiate with terrorists" and pretty much declaring plane hijack season? Or would it sacrifice the plane with its passengers for the greater good, and keep quiet about it?[/QUOTE] It wouldn't do the second one because plane crashes tend to get investigated and a plane being shot down kinda has obvious markers that say it was shot down. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Leintharien;46822277]The plane needs to reach a certain air speed before the wings can provide enough lift. Wind in any direction can directly affect this. Provided you have enough air coming from the back, the plane won't be able to get off the ground. Therefore all the plane will be doing is pulling itself along the treadmill.[/QUOTE] I think his point is that a plane gets off the ground because of its engines, not the wheels.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822277]The plane needs to reach a certain air speed before the wings can provide enough lift. Wind in any direction can directly affect this. Provided you have enough air coming from the back, the plane won't be able to get off the ground. Therefore all the plane will be doing is pulling itself along the treadmill.[/QUOTE]I know how airplanes work. But again, a treadmill will not stop a plane from taking off. You can run it faster than the takeoff speed of the plane and it still will not stop the plane. This is something that has been actually tested.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822205]That can be debated. What if you put a large fan behind the model plane + treadmill and turn it on? My point is that if your air speed is zero, you aren't flying. This can happen on the ground, just as much as this can happen in the air. Even if the plane is going 500km/h, if there is wind pushing it from behind also going 500 km/h, then the wings aren't providing any lift. That means that even though the plane is going 500km/h, it is still going to be falling out of the sky.[/QUOTE] A tailwind physically pushes the plane forward. It is actually preferred to fly with a strong tailwind, because it saves on fuel costs and boosts your travel speed. Take off and land in a headwind for a quicker and shorter takeoff and landing, and travel with a tailwind if possible. Source: I'm a pilot.
[QUOTE=Leintharien;46822277]The plane needs to reach a certain air speed before the wings can provide enough lift. Wind in any direction can directly affect this. Provided you have enough air coming from the back, the plane won't be able to get off the ground. Therefore all the plane will be doing is pulling itself along the treadmill. If I remember correctly, when a passenger gets unruly on an aircraft to the point they need an emergency landing, the states will usually scramble one or two fighter aircraft to escort that plane.[/QUOTE] Read up on frames of reference and physics. As long as the difference between the air speed and plane speed (regardless of planes velocity to the ground) is some value, it will fly
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