[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24767225[/url]
[quote]Germany has become Europe's first country to allow babies with characteristics of both sexes to be registered as neither male nor female.
Parents are now allowed to leave the gender blank on birth certificates, in effect creating a new category of "indeterminate sex".
The move is aimed at removing pressure on parents to make quick decisions on sex assignment surgery for newborns.
However, some campaigners say the new law does not go far enough.
As many as one in 2,000 people have characteristics of both sexes.[/quote]
I read that as "third grader", and thought the thread was going to be about a lawyer in elementary school.
-snip didn't read the whole article-
[QUOTE=.FLAP.JACK.DAN.;42724819]I'm wondering how parents would even know if their baby has an "indeterminate sex".[/QUOTE]
It's pretty easy
[quote]They are known as "intersex" people because they have a mixture of male and female chromosomes or even genitalia which have characteristics of both genders.[/quote]
Ehhh this article is weird. It's using sex and gender interchangeably. I really don't know how to feel on issues like babies with genitals of both genders, since no one really has the right to choose but the baby's just a baby and can't choose for itself, so I guess this'll be alright. Wouldn't it cause the kid confusion and discomfort a la gender dysphoria later in life though?
EDIT: I mean, I guess it wouldn't be as bad as snipping off their dick when they're a baby and then the parents realize later that the kid's mentally a dude, but it's a 50/50 shot
Does this mean like hermaphrodites or what
[QUOTE]The move is aimed at removing pressure on parents [B]to make quick decisions on sex assignment surgery for newborns.[/B][/QUOTE]
Wait, what?
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;42725312]Wait, what?[/QUOTE]
People get pretty upset not having control over circumcision...imagine one day finding out they took the whole thing off.
[QUOTE=Rankzerox;42725290]Does this mean like hermaphrodites or what[/QUOTE]Intersex can best be described as ambiguous genitalia. Hermaphroditism i.e. possessing both ovaries and testes, is exceedingly rare in humans, and not a single recorded case has had both sets of organs working or fertile at the same time (either one or the other works).
[QUOTE]decisions on sex assignment surgery for newborns.[/QUOTE]
This shouldn't be a thing, not even for Hermaphrodites.
For those who don't understand:
For children born with a genetic mutation giving them genitalia or other characteristics of both Males AND Females, the parents/doctors now have the option to declare the child Neither exclusively male nor exclusively female, so that the parents aren't pressured into choosing one gender or the other for their child right after birth through surgery.
This, in theory, gives the child the ability to choose their own gender when they're older and mature enough to make their own decision.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;42725371]For those who don't understand:
For children born with a genetic mutation giving them genitalia or other characteristics of both Males AND Females, the parents/doctors now have the option to declare the child Neither exclusively male nor exclusively female, so that the parents aren't pressured into choosing one gender or the other for their child right after birth through surgery.
This, in theory, gives the child the ability to choose their own gender when they're older and mature enough to make their own decision.[/QUOTE]
you're talking about sex not gender
or so i've been told by the army of transgenders on facepunch at least
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;42725312]Wait, what?[/QUOTE]
I think they mean gender assignment? at least I hope so
this article is strangely written
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;42725427]All babies look the same to me, I don't know how to tell a many-female baby from a feminine-male baby.
Unless you're born with a slosh-mix of a penis and a vagina, there's no point to this. What sex you are born as is what sex you are born as, there is no changing that.
(Assuming sex is physical, not the mental part. I get them mixed up at times.)[/QUOTE]
This is the point of this law, for the rare people who are born with both or neither.
Its a good thing as long as it doesn't somehow get hijacked by that "let them decide!!" bollocks.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;42725427]All babies look the same to me, I don't know how to tell a many-female baby from a feminine-male baby.
Unless you're born with a slosh-mix of a penis and a vagina, there's no point to this. What sex you are born as is what sex you are born as, there is no changing that.
(Assuming sex is physical, not the mental part. I get them mixed up at times.)[/QUOTE]
That is the point though. For people with a "slosh-mix of a penis and a vagina."
[QUOTE=Flapadar;42725399]you're talking about sex not gender
or so i've been told by the army of transgenders on facepunch at least[/QUOTE]
The German language doesn't have as clear of a distinction between the two, so in this case he is entirely right.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;42725528]When it states 1/2,000 people, is that for the entire world? Because that is incredible common for something like that.
Unless it's a just-at-birth thing? Because I'd feel like it'd be a much bigger issue if it continued into childhood/adulthood.[/QUOTE]
Most people who have these kind of conditions have surgery fairly quickly to remove the redundant non-functional genitalia.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;42725528]When it states 1/2,000 people, is that for the entire world? Because that is incredible common for something like that.
Unless it's a just-at-birth thing? Because I'd feel like it'd be a much bigger issue if it continued into childhood/adulthood.[/QUOTE]
If anything it's more common than that. [URL="http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency"]Apparently 1% of live births have some degree of sexual ambiguity.[/URL]
Though that doesn't necessarily mean they have ambiguous genitalia or something that requires surgery, so it can often go unnoticed until later in life. Also, IIRC some people think that being transgender is an intersex condition that affects the brain instead of other parts, which would make sense.
[QUOTE=smurfy;42724790][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24767225[/url][/QUOTE]
people who are rating this dumb are too stupid to realize what the law actually is about lol
babies shouldn't have gender defined for them anyways. babies should have their sex written down, and then they get to "choose" gender later.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42725671]babies shouldn't have gender defined for them anyways. babies should have their sex written down, and then they get to "choose" gender later.[/QUOTE]
All it really affects at an early age is the color of the toys.
so is this if the baby both has testicles and oavaries?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42725671]babies shouldn't have gender defined for them anyways. babies should have their sex written down, and then they get to "choose" gender later.[/QUOTE]
Okay but that has nothing to do with this.
This is when the physical gender is undetermined and the parents shouldn't feel rushed pressured into hasty surgical procedures to permanently change that fact.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42725694]All it really affects at an early age is the color of the toys.[/QUOTE]
for infants but as they get older parents generally treat a child as a "boy" or "girl" and that can be harmful to those with gender dysphoria.
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;42725312]Wait, what?[/QUOTE]
Sometimes when a person is intersex the parents choose to prioritize one set of sex characteristics.
This is less about gender and more about sex, I mean, how do you tell what sex your baby is if he has both sexual organs?
I'm going to ask for clarification as I see some contradictions.
What blank there is in the birth certificate - GENDER or SEX?
Since when were gender and sex different things?
[QUOTE=matt000024;42726087]Since when were gender and sex different things?[/QUOTE]
since forever. sex is what parts you actually have. gender is an identity and ties into culture and gender roles.
[QUOTE=gudman;42726057]I'm going to ask for clarification as I see some contradictions.
What blank there is in the birth certificate - GENDER or SEX?[/QUOTE]
Sex, really, although in a lot of languages there isn't a distinct word to differentiate between sex and gender. German is one of those languages.
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