Any undocumented immigrant who entered the US after December 31, 2011, will not be eligible for citi - Polidicks

[quote]Washington (CNN) - Any undocumented immigrant who entered the country after December 31, 2011, will not be eligible for citizenship under terms of the immigration deal set to be unveiled Tuesday by the bipartisan "Gang of Eight" senators, a Senate aide told CNN on Saturday. Specifics of the program included in the legislation were among the details the eight senators - four Republicans and four Democrats - needed to iron out. Sources with knowledge of the matter told CNN this week the sweeping measure was on track to be unveiled Tuesday. Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee will hold their first public hearing on the legislation on Wednesday, followed most likely by committee markups in May and consideration by the full Senate in June, according to the sources. The measure includes a 13-year path to citizenship that could affect up to roughly 11 million undocumented residents, as well as the creation of a system to assess border security.[/quote] [url]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/13/gang-of-eight-sets-cutoff-date-for-citizenship-under-immigration-deal/?hpt=hp_t2[/url]

That doesn't seem very fair does it.

I feel like anybody should be able to work towards citizenship, one way or another.

Uhm, that's not legal, you cannot punish people for a crime committed before something became a law, sorry. I don't care if they're not citizens, it's still a law. Instead, set it to a few days in the future, and bam, problem solved.

I dont even have a citizenship and i came to the states 2003.. :suicide:

[QUOTE=draugur;40271255]Uhm, that's not legal, you cannot punish people for a crime committed before something became a law, sorry. I don't care if they're not citizens, it's still a law. Instead, set it to a few days in the future, and bam, problem solved.[/QUOTE] If they're illegal immigrants, they've already broken the law and thus criminals to begin with.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;40271272]If they're illegal immigrants, they've already broken the law and thus criminals to begin with.[/QUOTE] You still can't create an ex-post facto law. Sure, they're illegal, but we aren't actively deporting anyone found out to be illegal. Creating a law making a date illegal in the past is considered ex-post facto. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#United_States[/url]

How can you even tell when they entered the country if they're undocumented? Isn't that why we have documents?

[QUOTE=Ybbats;40271330]How can you even tell when they entered the country if they're undocumented? Isn't that why we have documents?[/QUOTE] "undocumented" just means they didn't go through the legal immigration process. That doesn't mean there's absolutely no kind of paper trail of them.

This is perfect.

Hey on the bright side we'll have more jobs.

What about individuals that want a better life for themselves and their families? The people who go through hell and back to escape their shitty ass life, without the ability to get the proper papers required because of lack of money, poor education systems, corrupt governments, or perhaps to just a shitty situation? I know nobody wants to lose their job, but the fact of the matter is, taking away people's ability to become a citizen kind of destroys the foundation of this nation's principle. Most immigrants do jobs that ONLY immigrants will do. They don't take jobs away, because they're jobs that most of us are too "good" for. They'll gladly take menial labor positions because that's all they can get, while some people with better education are not going to have their managerial positions taken. It's silly to take away a person's ability to fight for citizenship simply because their poor conditions prevented them from getting in legally. They obviously still went through a shit ton of work just to escape to the U.S. from whatever awful situation they were in to begin with. [editline]13th April 2013[/editline] How does preventing good-natured people from becoming citizens prevent border issues? The drug traffickers and the like aren't going to suddenly obey the law; [i]"Hey I'm trafficking coke, but now that the law says I have papers, I'm suddenly going to stop breaking the law and trafficking these drugs."[/i] and this legislation makes it even [B]harder[/B] for those who want to get citizenship legitimately, but cannot due to poor situations, to get it legally.

[QUOTE=White;40271499]Hey on the bright side we'll have more jobs.[/QUOTE] yes congratulations now you'll finally be able to get a job in landscaping and home repair or some other form of unskilled labor if you cant compete with an impoverished illegal immigrant that may or may not even speak english for a job it doesnt mean we need to get rid of immigrants it means you are really REALLY underqualified for the job

[QUOTE=White;40271499]Hey on the bright side we'll have more jobs.[/QUOTE] If you can't compete with someone who cannot speak English, and works in manual labor, then you're obviously not trying very hard to find a job.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40271606]yes congratulations now you'll finally be able to get a job in landscaping and home repair or some other form of unskilled labor if you cant compete with an impoverished illegal immigrant that may or may not even speak english for a job it doesnt mean we need to get rid of immigrants it means you are really REALLY underqualified for the job[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Loriborn;40271621]If you can't compete with someone who cannot speak English, and works in manual labor, then you're obviously not trying very hard to find a job.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure he was being sarcastic

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40271562]What about individuals that want a better life for themselves and their families? The people who go through hell and back to escape their shitty ass life, without the ability to get the proper papers required because of lack of money, poor education systems, corrupt governments, or perhaps to just a shitty situation? I know nobody wants to lose their job, but the fact of the matter is, taking away people's ability to become a citizen kind of destroys the foundation of this nation's principle. Most immigrants do jobs that ONLY immigrants will do. They don't take jobs away, because they're jobs that most of us are too "good" for. They'll gladly take menial labor positions because that's all they can get, while some people with better education are not going to have their managerial positions taken. It's silly to take away a person's ability to fight for citizenship simply because their poor conditions prevented them from getting in legally. They obviously still went through a shit ton of work just to escape to the U.S. from whatever awful situation they were in to begin with. [editline]13th April 2013[/editline] How does preventing good-natured people from becoming citizens prevent border issues? The drug traffickers and the like aren't going to suddenly obey the law; [i]"Hey I'm trafficking coke, but now that the law says I have papers, I'm suddenly going to stop breaking the law and trafficking these drugs."[/i] and this legislation makes it even [B]harder[/B] for those who want to get citizenship legitimately, but cannot due to poor situations, to get it legally.[/QUOTE] The US is not a giant refugee camp nor is it a country that is even remotely capable of sustaining a constant flow of immigrants at this time. [QUOTE=nicatronTg;40271287]You still can't create an ex-post facto law. Sure, they're illegal, but we aren't actively deporting anyone found out to be illegal. Creating a law making a date illegal in the past is considered ex-post facto. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#United_States[/url][/QUOTE] US Border Guards have been constantly sending back illegal immigrants. By your logic, once they step foot on US soil, we cannot put our hands on them. The constitution would not apply to non-US citizens.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40271641]The US is not a giant refugee camp nor is it a country that is even remotely capable of sustaining a constant flow of immigrants at this time.[/QUOTE] The fact is, people will come into this country regardless of what legislation you enforce, it's better to get them the legal ability to work than to have them hide away and not pay taxes. All this does is mean that illegals will always be illegals. This (tries and fails to) treat the symptoms, not the disease.

[quote]13-year path to citizenship[/quote] not going to solve the illegal immigration problem, try again

Actually a lot of mexicans are now going to Canada instead of the US because they can actually get citizenship there.

A path to citizenship actually benefits US citizens and legal immigrants more than anyone else. Think about it. The illegals who come here do so for a better life, they really don't give a shit about being citizens, just living better than in their home country. However, this means they live off the books as much as possible. They get paid much less when they work, undercutting wages for everyone. They don't pay into the tax pool, since a lot of them are paid under the table. Crimes and other social ills go underreported since they don't want to involve the authorities. Since they can't be citizens in the first place, they have no incentive to be good citizens. The only way not allowing them to become citizens pays off is if you can remove them from the country, which I think we can all agree is a practical impossibility.

[QUOTE=White;40271499]Hey on the bright side we'll have more jobs.[/QUOTE] American unemployment would probably be 0% if you guys were willing to pick fruit all day and do other harsh jobs for incredibly low wages.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40271562]:words:[/QUOTE] They can still go the legal route. The route they SHOULD have gone to begin with.

is this a joke? cas i mean they [B]are[/B] undocumented, how the hell are we supposed to know when they came in

Land of the free.

-snip-

[QUOTE=draugur;40271255]Uhm, that's not legal, you cannot punish people for a crime committed before something became a law, sorry. I don't care if they're not citizens, it's still a law. Instead, set it to a few days in the future, and bam, problem solved.[/QUOTE] You are correct that the us gov can not pass a law making past actions illegal. However, this is not the case here. It was already a crime to enter America illegally- what this law does is give those who entered before a certain date an easier path to citizenship. [editline]13th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=zombojoe;40272150]Actually a lot of mexicans are now going to Canada instead of the US because they can actually get citizenship there.[/QUOTE] In what way(s) are Canada immigration laws easier then Americas? Any sources, statistics on them preferring Canada now?

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40271680]The fact is, people will come into this country regardless of what legislation you enforce, it's better to get them the legal ability to work than to have them hide away and not pay taxes. All this does is mean that illegals will always be illegals. This (tries and fails to) treat the symptoms, not the disease.[/QUOTE] I learned this a while back, illegals still pay taxes bro.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;40272437]A path to citizenship actually benefits US citizens and legal immigrants more than anyone else. Think about it. The illegals who come here do so for a better life, they really don't give a shit about being citizens, just living better than in their home country. However, this means they live off the books as much as possible. They get paid much less when they work, undercutting wages for everyone. They don't pay into the tax pool, since a lot of them are paid under the table. Crimes and other social ills go underreported since they don't want to involve the authorities. Since they can't be citizens in the first place, they have no incentive to be good citizens. The only way not allowing them to become citizens pays off is if you can remove them from the country, which I think we can all agree is a practical impossibility.[/QUOTE] Illegal immigrants often do live on the books in a way. A lot of illegal immigrants use fake SSIDs as a way to secure jobs. This means that they pay taxes and are unable to to get benefits. A lot have to pay into SSID retirement benefits which they can never get which has led to a pretty big section of money in the Social Security system that isn't tied to anyone.

[QUOTE=kaine123;40271242]That doesn't seem very fair does it.[/QUOTE] Yes it is, they came to a country by hopping a fence or going by some other way. Why should they be awarded citizenship?

[QUOTE=Crash15;40273093]Yes it is, they came to a country by hopping a fence or going by some other way. Why should they be awarded citizenship?[/QUOTE] Because citizenship shouldn't be something that is "awarded" it should be something anyone is able to have. It shouldn't take years to happen, it really should be a process that is practically instantaneous.