• Scotland should vote for independence to be 'beacon of social justice' says Leanne Wood
    16 replies, posted
[url=http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/22/scotland-independence-beacon-social-justice-welsh-nationalists]Source[/url] [quote]The leader of the Welsh nationalist party, Plaid Cymru, has described as "illogical and perverse" the suggestion that voting yes to Scottish independence represents a failure to act in solidarity with the people of England and Wales. Speaking to the Guardian, ahead of a lecture on Tuesday evening hosted by the Radical Independence Campaign, Leanne Wood said: "For me solidarity through divergence is a better way of showing people outside of Scotland what is possible." Wood warned the Scottish electorate not to trust Westminster parties' promises of more powers in the event of a no vote. "The only way that people in Scotland can be guaranteed additional powers is if they vote yes," she said. Wood will call for Scotland to become a "beacon" of social justice to counter the "spiteful rightwing rule" of the UK government. Plaid sees the independence debate in Scotland as a chance to restate its long-held position that Wales ought to become independent. Many inside and outside the party believe that if Scotland does become independent it will lead to a reassessment of whether Wales ought to follow suit.[/quote]
worth a punt
I take a neutral stance on the whole thing. Every time I ask about who is the "better choice for scotland", I only get heavily biased views.
AFAIK, Scotland is where a big part of the leftist votes in the UK come from. In other words, if Scotland is independent, the government will most likely be a socialist one. On the other hand, that means that the Tories and UKIP will have an even bigger voting base. Can someone British please confirm/deny this?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;45470761]I take a neutral stance on the whole thing. Every time I ask about who is the "better choice for scotland", I only get heavily biased views.[/QUOTE] If you lived here you'd know voting yes would be such a terrible decision for the economy. People keep acting like we're not one united country and instead 4 countries all kept on a leash by England. Most people supporting the yes campaign are the kind of people who are thinking "yeah stick it to the man!" and not looking at the independence situation rationally.
Scotland independence referendum now tied with referendum to rename it to Tumblrland
[QUOTE=Roll_Program;45470817]If you lived here you'd know voting yes would be such a terrible decision for the economy.[/QUOTE] When the SNP is going around silencing business owners about giving their opinion the vote of a economic decision that effects them primarily, it raises alarms.
[QUOTE=Stopper;45470791]AFAIK, Scotland is where a big part of the leftist votes in the UK come from. In other words, if Scotland is independent, the government will most likely be a socialist one. On the other hand, that means that the Tories and UKIP will have an even bigger voting base. Can someone British please confirm/deny this?[/QUOTE] I am led to believe this is indeed true. For a long time, Scotland (and the whole North of the UK) has been more left-leaning, with the Southern ends being more centrist or right-wing. But at the end of the day, if we vote in a crap government that screws up the country because we don't actually know what's good for us, then we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
[QUOTE=Vasili;45470842]When the SNP is going around silencing business owners about giving their opinion the vote of a economic decision that effects them primarily, it raises alarms.[/QUOTE] Also how the SNP's manifesto keeps promising money out of thin air, making it seem like Scotland would be able to support itself independently to win votes. shady. It's just full of claims like "more money to hospitals, transport and schools", as if they couldn't do it now and [I]need[/I] to go in independent to do it (if they could actually do it). When questioned about where the money will come from their go to answer is just "North Sea oil", but that still is speculating who will get rights to a lot of the oil and if there's even enough there to support the country.
[QUOTE=Stopper;45470791]AFAIK, Scotland is where a big part of the leftist votes in the UK come from. In other words, if Scotland is independent, the government will most likely be a socialist one. On the other hand, that means that the Tories and UKIP will have an even bigger voting base. Can someone British please confirm/deny this?[/QUOTE] deny - scottish vote hasn't changed the outcome down in westminster for about 50 years, meaning every time it's been a labour government, without scotland, it still would have been labour. in terms of scotland, this is current makeup over the government: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Scottish_Parliament_current.png/550px-Scottish_Parliament_current.png[/img] yellow is snp, centre left party, pro independence. under the voting system we use, scotland shouldn't get majority governments but they led the vote enough to get one. orange is liberal democrats, anti indy who are highly unpopular now. red is labour, anti indy, who think they're left wing but are more centre leaning right since 1997 and tony blair. blue is conservative, anti indy, centre right but somehow doing well with an openly gay female leader. green is scottish green, left wing and pro indy. grey is independent. [editline]23rd July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Roll_Program;45470892]Also how the SNP's manifesto keeps promising money out of thin air, making it seem like Scotland would be able to support itself independently to win votes. shady. It's just full of claims like "more money to hospitals, transport and schools", as if they couldn't do it now and [I]need[/I] to go in independent to do it (if they could actually do it). When questioned about where the money will come from their go to answer is just "North Sea oil", but that still is speculating who will get rights to a lot of the oil and if there's even enough there to support the country.[/QUOTE] i think if you did a bit more research or broadened your vision of the independent scotland from just the snp you'd get a different idea of it - check out what the scottish greens would do, they don't fancy oil dependency. there is a lot more than just oil to scotland, surely there's some reason we actually have an economy
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;45470918] there is a lot more than just oil to scotland, surely there's some reason we actually have an economy[/QUOTE] Shame we can't really get their opinion on how this economic vote will effect them, as they've been bullied into not saying anything.
[QUOTE=Vasili;45471205]Shame we can't really get their opinion on how this economic vote will effect them, as they've been bullied into not saying anything.[/QUOTE] ...what?
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;45470848]I am led to believe this is indeed true. For a long time, Scotland (and the whole North of the UK) has been more left-leaning, with the Southern ends being more centrist or right-wing. But at the end of the day, if we vote in a crap government that screws up the country because we don't actually know what's good for us, then [B]we have nobody to blame but ourselves[/B].[/QUOTE] Well... not really. Even if all of Scotland voted unanimously in general elections it would have only a splash of an effect in the totals, it probably wouldn't even hold much of a candle to northern england, how would one blame oneself for that? Considering that the idea of devomax is now being batted around in full in the event of a no vote, what is even the point on not voting yes? If you want every job that independence entails but with none of the sweet privileges such as foreign policy, deciding military involvement, deciding nuclear non-proliferation, etc, what the heck is the point of voting no? You get all of the hard work and few privileges to show for it.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;45471888]Well... not really. Even if all of Scotland voted unanimously in general elections it would have only a splash of an effect in the totals, it probably wouldn't even hold much of a candle to northern england, how would one blame oneself for that? Considering that the idea of devomax is now being batted around in full in the event of a no vote, what is even the point on not voting yes? If you want every job that independence entails but with none of the sweet privileges such as foreign policy, deciding military involvement, deciding nuclear non-proliferation, etc, what the heck is the point of voting no? You get all of the hard work and few privileges to show for it.[/QUOTE] devomax isn't be batted about - there is no real powers promised after september
[QUOTE=Roll_Program;45470817]If you lived here you'd know voting yes would be such a terrible decision for the economy. People keep acting like we're not one united country and instead 4 countries all kept on a leash by England. Most people supporting the yes campaign are the kind of people who are thinking "yeah stick it to the man!" and not looking at the independence situation rationally.[/QUOTE] The only businessmen supporting independence are the ones who operate export based businesses because they know that their profits won't necessarily decline. Small business owners (especially ones in the Borders) recognise that they're going to take a massive financial hit in the event of a Yes vote. A lack of clarity on an independent Scotland's economy certainly isn't helping either.
scotland justice warrior
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45474585]scotland justice warrior[/QUOTE] check yer privileges ye wee cisgender english bastard anglo people need to stop oppressing us proud PoC (people of celtic-descent)
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