I have little doubt personally that certain vaccines can cause adverse reactions in certain people. The amount of cases reported can't be ignored. However, I feel that the benefits of vaccinations outweigh the risks of causing autism as far as the general populace is concerned. People definitely need to be made aware of the current risks of certain vaccinations, and more research needs done on these vaccinations, but the solution definitely isn't to stop vaccinating people en masse. Yes, autism is a negatively viewed condition that, in general, isn't desired, but I think it's unwise to put at risk several thousand or even millions of people in order to prevent the development of autism in a relatively small number of people.
Just to put my opinion into context, I was diagnosed with a common form of non-Asperger's autism a few years ago and have been able to successfully recognize and control the symptoms of the disorder now that I know what to look out for.
Who knew this would lead to 36+ boxes.
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920421]I have little doubt personally that certain vaccines can cause adverse reactions in certain people. The amount of cases reported can't be ignored. However, I feel that the benefits of vaccinations outweigh the risks of causing autism as far as the general populace is concerned. People definitely need to be made aware of the current risks of certain vaccinations, and more research needs done on these vaccinations, but the solution definitely isn't to stop vaccinating people en masse. Yes, autism is a negatively viewed condition that, in general, isn't desired, but I think it's unwise to put at risk several thousand or even millions of people in order to prevent the development of autism in a relatively small number of people.
Just to put my opinion into context, I was diagnosed with a common form of non-Asperger's autism a few years ago and have been able to successfully recognize and control the symptoms of the disorder now that I know what to look out for.[/QUOTE]
There's no causal link between vaccines and autism.
At best there's a correlation due to the period where most people get their vaccinations lining up with the average time such social disorders are noticed.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50920440]There's no causal link between vaccines and autism.
At best there's a correlation due to the period where most people get their vaccinations lining up with the average time such social disorders are noticed.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that vaccinations cause autism. I'm saying that more studies need to be done on the link between autism and vaccines; not necessarily because it's possible that vaccinations cause autism, but rather that more studies will shut the people up who do say such things. Penn and Teller say it best above my post.
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920490]I'm not saying that vaccinations cause autism. I'm saying that more studies need to be done on the link between autism and vaccines; not necessarily because it's possible that vaccinations cause autism, but rather that more studies will shut the people up who do say such things. Penn and Teller say it best; even if vaccines cause autism, autism is still better than what's being vaccinated against.[/QUOTE]
No they won't.
There's over 50 studies of this. They're all proof that there is no link. The people who think there is a link, do not fucking care.
You're just giving them justification by acting like they're being reasonable.
I'm not acting like they're reasonable, nor have I at any point implied that.
even if vaccines caused autism the outrage is beyond stupid because society probably would collapse or some insane shit without them every time someone catches the flu lmao
like there's no reason NOT to support vaccines outside of this wack-job victim complex as well as this delusional cynicism of proven science and medicine
it should be illegal to not vaccinate your kids, assuming they have healthy immune systems and can handle it
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920506]I'm not acting like they're reasonable, nor have I at any point implied that.[/QUOTE]
By saying "They just need to see more studies" when there is a wealth of them out there that they choose to ignore, yes you are.
the only problem with vaccines is when you give them to people who have immune problems or to people who allergic to it.
for this reason, we need to vaccinate everyone else, so we have herd immunity.
vaccines do not cause autism, mercury poisoning, or any other of the ridiculous things I heard.
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920506]I'm not acting like they're reasonable, nor have I at any point implied that.[/QUOTE]
Yeah you did.
You said "we need to look into it more" even though we already have.
Autism is not caused by vaccines, this is fact.
The one thing I can never understand from anti-vaxxers is the fact that they would rather have their child die early on in life with some kinda bug we've been able to cure for centuries, than live a life of slight adversity because they "have autism because the vaccines"
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50920525]By saying "They just need to see more studies" when there is a wealth of them out there that they choose to ignore, yes you are.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50920539]Yeah you did.
You said "we need to look into it more" even though we already have.
Autism is not caused by vaccines, this is fact.[/QUOTE]
Alright then, whatever you guys say. I honestly thought I knew my own opinions, but boy was I wrong!
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920610]Alright then, whatever you guys say. I honestly thought I knew my own opinions, but boy was I wrong![/QUOTE]
*
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920490]I'm not saying that vaccinations cause autism. I'm saying that more studies need to be done on the link between autism and vaccines; not necessarily because it's possible that vaccinations cause autism, but rather that more studies will shut the people up who do say such things. Penn and Teller say it best above my post.[/QUOTE]
So what is it exactly you're arguing?
Keep in mind: [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50920493]There's over 50 studies of this. They're all proof that there is no link. The people who think there is a link, do not fucking care. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920610]Alright then, whatever you guys say. I honestly thought I knew my own opinions, but boy was I wrong![/QUOTE]
I'm saying, in response to you saying "They just need to see more studies" that that is not a valid answer because they have seen them, and [B]chosen[/B] to ignore them, so to act like Anti Vaccers just need more info is wrong.
These kinds of arguments are why anti-vaxxers exist
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920610]Alright then, whatever you guys say. I honestly thought I knew my own opinions, but boy was I wrong![/QUOTE]
When your opinions are based on ignoring facts, yes, they are wrong
My opinions aren't based on ignoring facts though? I'm not in agreement with the OP guys! I stated that if facts are more prevalent, fiction will die out. How is that wrong? I seriously don't get why I'm being attacked right now. I've said nothing controversial and I've not tried to start any arguments. It feels like you guys are trying to create an argument out of nothing.
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920490]I'm not saying that vaccinations cause autism. I'm saying that more studies need to be done on the link between autism and vaccines;[/QUOTE]
No, you said that vaccinations have a risk of causing autism, which has been proven bullshit
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920682]How is that wrong? I seriously don't get why I'm being attacked right now. I've said nothing controversial and I've not tried to start any arguments. It feels like you guys are trying to create an argument out of nothing.[/QUOTE]
Your wording was absolutely terrible tbh
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920421]I have little doubt personally that certain vaccines can cause adverse reactions in certain people. The amount of cases reported can't be ignored. However, I feel that [B]the benefits of vaccinations outweigh the risks of causing autism[/B] as far as the general populace is concerned. People definitely need to be made aware of the current risks of certain vaccinations, and more research needs done on these vaccinations, but the solution definitely isn't to stop vaccinating people en masse. [B]Yes, autism is a negatively viewed condition that, in general, isn't desired, but I think it's unwise to put at risk several thousand or even millions of people in order to prevent the development of autism in a relatively small number of people.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
You said a very valid thing, but for all the wrong reasons.
Vaccines can cause adverse reaction in certain people, but [B]these risks do not ABSOLUTELY include causing autism[/B]
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920682]My opinions aren't based on ignoring facts though? I'm not in agreement with the OP guys! I stated that if facts are more prevalent, fiction will die out. How is that wrong?[/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to tell you what your opinion is.
I'm trying to tell you that by saying "They just need more facts to make the informed decision" you're misunderstanding the problem. Anti Vaxers do not care about the data, about the facts, or about studies. There's so many, so god damn many studies on this subject that there is no "question" anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. But, Anti Vaxers don't care about this, their belief is one founded on ignorance and one that relies on staying ignorant, intentionally or not. These people, more often than not, see the studies and opposition as a conspiracy.
The problem is just as simple as it not actually being a problem of "info" but a problem of ignorance.
-automerge fail-
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920682]My opinions aren't based on ignoring facts though? I'm not in agreement with the OP guys! I stated that if facts are more prevalent, fiction will die out. How is that wrong? I seriously don't get why I'm being attacked right now. I've said nothing controversial and I've not tried to start any arguments. It feels like you guys are trying to create an argument out of nothing.[/QUOTE]
your opinion is that more studies will show antivaxxers that they are wrong, bu tthe fats are there already are a plehtora of studies saying that and all they do is plug up their ears. Implying they even need work dedicated to showing them why they're dumb legitimizes them, because it implies the idea that vaccines cause autism isn't retarded in the first place.
[QUOTE=NitronikALT;50920691]No, you said that vaccinations have a risk of causing autism, which has been proven bullshit[/QUOTE]
Quote me on this. You're wrong.
[I]Oh no, my wording was bad! Whatever will I do![/I]
Sorry I have trouble forming sentences and coherent strings of dialog from my thoughts. Reading back what I wrote not that long ago, I clearly didn't pinpoint exactly what I was trying to say. Still, with a little work it's not hard to figure out what I'm getting at.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50920692]I'm not trying to tell you what your opinion is.
I'm trying to tell you that by saying "They just need more facts to make the informed decision" you're misunderstanding the problem. Anti Vaxers do not care about the data, about the facts, or about studies. There's so many, so god damn many studies on this subject that there is no "question" anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. But, Anti Vaxers don't care about this, their belief is one founded on ignorance and one that relies on staying ignorant, intentionally or not. These people, more often than not, see the studies and opposition as a conspiracy.
The problem is just as simple as it not actually being a problem of "info" but a problem of ignorance.[/QUOTE]
Ok. My bad for misunderstanding the issue at hand. I've still never said that vaccines can cause autism and I've certainly never implied that I agree with anti-vaxxers; quite the contrary actually. Regardless, anti-vaxxers need addressed to a deeper extent than "they're wrong" because that's clearly not getting the point across to them.
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920723]Quote me. You're wrong.
[/QUOTE]
I just posted your quote with the relevant parts highlighted in bold and you're still in denial
lmao
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920723]Quote me. You're wrong.
Ok. My bad for misunderstanding the issue at hand. I've still never said that vaccines can cause autism and I've certainly never implied that I agree with anti-vaxxers; quite the contrary actually. Regardless, anti-vaxxers need addressed to a deeper extent than "they're wrong" because that's clearly not getting the point across to them.[/QUOTE]
How do you convince a flat earther? A moon landing person? You fucking can't.
You move on and ignore them because you could spend a life time trying to convince them and they'll never find anything motivating about it.
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920682]My opinions aren't based on ignoring facts though? I'm not in agreement with the OP guys! [B]I stated that if facts are more prevalent, fiction will die out. How is that wrong?[/B] I seriously don't get why I'm being attacked right now. I've said nothing controversial and I've not tried to start any arguments. It feels like you guys are trying to create an argument out of nothing.[/QUOTE]
The facts are extremely prevalent. There is very, very, very high confidence from dozens of studies that prove there is no link between vaccines and autism. No amount of "facts" will sway these people, and spending even more resources for studies that we've already done many, many, many times before is a waste of time and money.
[QUOTE=NitronikALT;50920731]I just posted your quote with the relevant parts highlighted in bold and you're still in denial
lmao[/QUOTE]
I'm not in denial about anything! I'm not an anti-vaxxer, and I don't believe that vaccination can lead to autism in the vaccinated! I'm sorry if I implied the contrary but I assure you that I don't hold that belief and that I've always viewed anti-vaxxers as sort of crazy.
What you quoted was a misstep on my part. While the quote did not directly state that I believe in a direct link between vaccinations and autism, I clearly wasn't trying to imply that I believe in any way that vaccinations can cause autism. If my wording implied the contrary, I apologize and assure you that I meant no such thing.
[QUOTE=MrWhite;50920768]I'm not in denial about anything! I'm not an anti-vaxxer, and I don't believe that vaccination can lead to autism in the vaccinated! I'm sorry if I implied the contrary but I assure you that I don't hold that belief and that I've always viewed anti-vaxxers as sort of crazy.
What you quoted was a misstep on my part. I wasn't trying to imply that I believe in any way that vaccinations cause autism. If my wording implied the contrary, I apologize and assure you that I meant no such thing.[/QUOTE]
Glad we could get that sorted out at least. I'm fairly sure that's what caused this mini shitstorm to begin with
So, I have to admit: I was intrigued by this Dr. William Thompson. Supposedly he has evidence that this was all part of a huge coverup by the CDC. What if he's right? I think that's worth looking into. So I did some research.
[url]http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/08/05/the-cdc-whistleblower-william-thompson-appears-to-have-gone-full-antivaccine/[/url]
Turns out the guy is just totally full of shit.
My mom is anti-vax because she says we don't need to be vaccinating for things that are extremely rare and giving infants massive amounts of vaccines. While I agree with her on the latter part, I keep telling her that the things are rare [I]because[/I] of mass vaccination but she says they've always been rare. :rolleyes:
She even says we don't need to vaccinate meningitis because it only affects less than 1% of the population each year. Gee, I wonder why it only affects less than 1% of the population each year
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