Utah does something right for once: It's solving the homeless problem by giving them homes, and it's - Polidicks

[URL="http://www.nationofchange.org/utah-ending-homelessness-giving-people-homes-1390056183"]Utah is Ending Homelessness by Giving People Homes[/URL] [QUOTE][B]In eight years, Utah has quietly reduced homelessness by 78 percent, and is on track to end homelessness by 2015.[/B] How did Utah accomplish this? Simple. Utah solved homelessness by giving people homes. In 2005, Utah figured out that the annual cost of E.R. visits and jail says for homeless people was about $16,670 per person, compared to $11,000 to provide each homeless person with an apartment and a social worker. So, the state began giving away apartments, with no strings attached. Each participant in Utah’s Housing First program also gets a caseworker to help them become self-sufficient, but the keep the apartment even if they fail. The program has been so successful that other states are hoping to achieve similar results with programs modeled on Utah’s. It sounds like Utah borrowed a page from Homes Not Handcuffs, the 2009 report by The National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty and The National Coalition for the Homeless. Using a 2004 survey and anecdotal evidence from activists, the report concluded that permanent housing for the homeless is cheaper than criminalization. Housing is not only more human, it’s economical. This happened in a Republican state! Republicans in Congress would probably have required the homeless to take a drug test before getting an apartment, denied apartments to homeless people with criminal records, and evicted those who failed to become self-sufficient after five years or so. But Utah’s results show that even conservative states can solve problems like homelessness with decidedly progressive solutions.[/QUOTE] Utah has a problem with equal rights for gay people, but credit where credit is due. If these numbers are real and not cooked up for good PR spin, this is fantastic.

Utah finally sets an example that's not downright retarded. My state may be finally letting up after all.

Wait though, surely the E.R. visits and jail stays would be reduced but not at all eliminated? Oh well whatever tricks conservatives. Edit: what is so fucking difficult to understand about this post

Yeah, it creates these huge housing projects, they're actually some pretty nice apartments. Got a few just a block away (Well, they're part of the U's thing, but it integrates).

[QUOTE=bull04;43627421]Utah finally sets an example that's not downright retarded. My state may be finally letting up after all.[/QUOTE] Take a look at UTOPIA and Pete Ashdown, they're trying to do innovative stuff with internet in Utah. My automerge?

[QUOTE]Philadelphia took a somewhat different approach, with a law banning the feeding of homeless people [/QUOTE] Ok. Sensationalizing but thats a bit dehumanizing.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;43627443]Wait though, surely the E.R. visits and jail stays would be reduced but not at all eliminated? Oh well whatever tricks conservatives.[/QUOTE] Yes. That's the point. Rather than have homeless people showing up at the ER because they're sick or injured as a result of... being homeless, or putting them in jail because they're homeless and disrupting order, they give them an apartment to live in and access to a social worker for help.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;43627453]Take a look at UTOPIA and Pete Ashdown, they're trying to do innovative stuff with internet in Utah. My automerge?[/QUOTE] I live in Eagle Mountain, which is one of the most conservative areas in Utah. They're too stubborn to let UTOPIA install fibre-optics in our city, which is why I'm still running 5Mbps D/0.6Mbps U speeds. I really hope our city can let up on the subbornness, because I want to experience those speeds for myself. Hell, I'd be willing to compensate TV just for internet alone with those speeds.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43627459]Yes. That's the point. Rather than have homeless people showing up at the ER because they're sick or injured as a result of... being homeless, or putting them in jail because they're homeless and disrupting order, they give them an apartment to live in and access to a social worker for help.[/QUOTE] Yeah but it's not like all of the E.R. and jail visits are a direct result of homelessness.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;43627475]Yeah but it's not like all of the E.R. and jail visits are a direct result of homelessness.[/QUOTE] No, but homeless people probably spend a lot more time in jail/the hospital than the average person with a 9-5 job and a steady paycheck and a roof over their head when they sleep, unless they live in a violently abusive household or they're a crack addict or something. The point is, you're likely to eliminate the majority of that cost by giving them homes to live in. It won't eliminate the entire cost, but I'm betting it reduces the average cost by more than $5,000 per homeless person.

What about gay homeless people?

[QUOTE=bull04;43627469]I live in Eagle Mountain, which is one of the most conservative areas in Utah. They're too stubborn to let UTOPIA install fibre-optics in our city, which is why I'm still running 5Mbps D/0.6Mbps U speeds. I really hope our city can let up on the subbornness, because I want to experience those speeds for myself. Hell, I'd be willing to compensate TV just for internet alone with those speeds.[/QUOTE] I myself live in SLC, so we don't have UTOPIA Either. But I'm planning on moving up to Centerville just to get gigabit when I get the money. One half is the gigabit itself, the other is just how awesome Xmission in regards to customer privacy. I'm hoping that soon it catches on with when the younger generation realizes how important fast internet is, and just hope they find UTOPIA so they can get that accepted into more cities without having to start from the beginning all over again.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43627485]No, but homeless people probably spend a lot more time in jail/the hospital than the average person with a 9-5 job and a steady paycheck and a roof over their head when they sleep, unless they live in a violently abusive household or they're a crack addict or something. The point is, you're likely to eliminate the majority of that cost by giving them homes to live in. It won't eliminate the entire cost, but I'm betting it reduces the average cost by more than $5,000 per homeless person.[/QUOTE] It would need to reduce it by $11,000 to be economical Don't get me wrong I think it's a great thing I'm just surprised it happened in such a conservative area. [editline]22nd January 2014[/editline] Also I bet these dudes are excited that they finally get to experience mormons at their doors

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;43627497] Also I bet these dudes are excited that they finally get to experience mormons at their doors[/QUOTE] Actually, I've had more Jehovah's witness people come to my doorstep than Mormons in recent time.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;43627496]I myself live in SLC, so we don't have UTOPIA Either. But I'm planning on moving up to Centerville just to get gigabit when I get the money. One half is the gigabit itself, the other is just how awesome Xmission in regards to customer privacy. I'm hoping that soon it catches on with when the younger generation realizes how important fast internet is, and just hope they find UTOPIA so they can get that accepted into more cities without having to start from the beginning all over again.[/QUOTE] Couldn't agree with ya more. I want to move to Lindon or Orem when I graduate since I plan on going to UVU. I agree with the pricing, I will totally get gigabit when I have my own place.

By 78 percent? Holy shit that's actually impressive. Props to them.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43627417][URL="http://www.nationofchange.org/utah-ending-homelessness-giving-people-homes-1390056183"]Utah is Ending Homelessness by Giving People Homes[/URL] Utah has a problem with equal rights for gay people, but credit where credit is due. If these numbers are real and not cooked up for good PR spin, this is fantastic.[/QUOTE] From the sounds of how this plan works, I wouldn't be surprised if these numbers were actually higher

I would have expected negative results from this experiment to be honest. This is fantastic news. I still feel I need to see it to believe it though. Numbers can be deceptive.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;43627475]Yeah but it's not like all of the E.R. and jail visits are a direct result of homelessness.[/QUOTE] no, but the homeless actually occupy a shitload of space in hospitals. it's not their fault or anything, but none of them can afford doctors so whenever they need any form of care, they need to check into the ER - and because they can't pay for it (no insurance), the hospitals take it in as sunk costs which results in decreased tax revenues in the case of private hospitals (you can claim exemptions etc) and increased strain on public hospitals. this is actually a pretty big nationwide issue right now, my mother is working extensively to combat the problem in my state. there's a ton of programs starting now to educate the homeless about when it's appropriate to check in to the ER and when they need to seek alternative forms of care (usually public health nurses / resources through homeless shelters, etc). i find it interesting that my state (CT) isn't doing this, but not terribly surprising considering the cost of living here is substantially higher than anywhere in utah, i'm sure.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43627457]Ok. Sensationalizing but thats a bit dehumanizing.[/QUOTE] but if you feed them they will just come back for more

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43628045]but if you feed them they will just come back for more[/QUOTE] Teach a man to fish and he eats for life. This is why I oppose government programs that educate people and give them skills.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;43627443]Wait though, surely the E.R. visits and jail stays would be reduced but not at all eliminated? Oh well whatever tricks conservatives.[/QUOTE] A home is a step towards holding down a job and being able to pay your own way (as well as paying tax). It is entirely possible that even if you don't cut out ER visits and jail stays, you can offset that cost through the people who stop being net negative contributions to society by being afforded that first step.

This should happen in a lot of other states, as we have some homeless people around, and soon thanks to this increasing economic disparity, people will be kicked out of their homes because they cannot afford it. people who disperately trying to keep their job just to pay the bills these days, and some people are beginning to get stressed out on this as well, my family could be affected if these taxes continue raising higher and our income lowers, and people having their hours cut as well.

But Utah has always been doing things [B][I]right[/I][/B] if you know what I mean [img]http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/images/smilies/smug.gif[/img]

Yep, this is definitely the right thing to do for humanity. But it isn't completely surprising since Utah apparently has a high concentration of Mormons, and apparently Mormons are pretty nice folks. Also I heard they believe that they believe that they can become like God, which is an interesting notion in itself from a theological standpoint, even though I'm no expert on the ways of faith. Regardless, good on Utah for doing something progressive and beneficial for humanity.

[QUOTE=ironman17;43629630]Yep, this is definitely the right thing to do for humanity. But it isn't completely surprising since Utah apparently has a high concentration of Mormons, [B]and apparently Mormons are pretty nice folks.[/B] Also I heard they believe that they believe that they can become like God, which is an interesting notion in itself from a theological standpoint, even though I'm no expert on the ways of faith. Regardless, good on Utah for doing something progressive and beneficial for humanity.[/QUOTE] they certainly can be incredibly nice. The Mormon faith revolves around salvation being granted not through grace, but through personal works. That point causes some friction with the other flavors. Regardless, this is nice and all, but I cannot stand that source. "Fukushima: A warning to the world of the 'Atomic Plague'" :rolleyes: "Is West Virginia a cult?" I mean, shit, this site is so left leaning that its fucking spinning.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;43628045]but if you feed them they will just come back for more[/QUOTE] they're not fucking pigeons

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43630022]they certainly can be incredibly nice. The Mormon faith revolves around salvation being granted not through grace, but through personal works. That point causes some friction with the other flavors.[/QUOTE] Considering that, I think I respect the Mormons a fair bit, since the belief of working hard to earn your keep is indeed a sensible one, even if some folks were born into money and have never done an honest day's work in their lives. Better to work hard for your house in the Elysian Fields than to get it by endlessly praising the landlord, even if I don't share the view of Jesus travelling to America in ancient times.

For anyone wondering why homeless people would go to the hospital so much, it is often simply for a nice bed. Often they come in on something minor, so that they can have a few days of sleeping in a bed and free food. My mother is a nurse floor manager at the local ER wing of one of our hospitals and has plenty of the stories. They basically clog up the system and take up space for no reason mostly. Good move for Utah to try this, but being a state of Mormons this kind of charity is pretty much a given, since the Mormon's will do the same for anyone in their congregation if they became homeless or go through financial trouble. Hell, I had a friend who's dad lost his job and they were struggling while he was trying to find a new job and my mother mentioned it to a few people at our church and within the day there was a small scale food drive and got this family, who was not Mormon, four weeks of groceries and nobody else in the church had ever met that family. I think Mormons take a unfair proportion of shit from other denominations.

[QUOTE=ironman17;43630236]Considering that, I think I respect the Mormons a fair bit, since the belief of working hard to earn your keep is indeed a sensible one, even if some folks were born into money and have never done an honest day's work in their lives. Better to work hard for your house in the Elysian Fields than to get it by endlessly praising the landlord, even if I don't share the view of Jesus travelling to America in ancient times.[/QUOTE] Lol Mormons are super easy to respect if you don't have to live with them Gay kids are thrown out by their Mormon families daily here, my schools GSA has a fundraiser to buy jackets for homeless gay high school students, it's a surprisingly large demographic