• Eli the Computer Guy - I Don't Support #WTFU
    33 replies, posted
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-6i0JxPtWo[/media] He makes a lot of good points. The main problem I had with Nostalgia Critic's original video is that he simply stated "Its fair use!", but fair use is subjective. A court needs to decide what is and isn't fair use. Don't take my comments the wrong way though, the youtube system is being abused by scumbag companies [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1507772"]like what is happening to most content creators.[/URL]
I'll back #FTFA. Fix the fucking algorithm! Honestly, I'm not sure what to think about the video. I don't necessarily disagree with any of his points, but I don't necessarily agree with them either. The fact the video is 45 fucking minutes long (and the fact I actually watched the whole damn thing :v:) makes it kind of hard to focus on any one particular idea.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;49810017]A court needs to decide what is and isn't fair use.[/QUOTE] Too bad no one can actually take it to court to begin with because the system won't let them :v:
[QUOTE=J!NX;49810216]Too bad no one can actually take it to court to begin with because the system won't let them :v:[/QUOTE] Yeah, but that's what you're signing up for when you decide to do business with a billion dollar company. He addresses this in the video. In the past before any old shmuck could upload content and only "old media" was in the game, everyone had enough money to fund these lawsuits.
going to watch and try and maybe respond to everything that or just universally agree or disagree [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] so far it sounds like he's making up a lot of reasons to justify saying "I don't support #WTFU" [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] talking about reaction channels the whole reason that people are annoyed is because they reupload entire videos in full without permission and don't even react to it, and then say a few things and then that's the end of the reaction [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] it feels like he's going into semantics at this point instead of saying "I disagree with #WTFU" he could have condensed this video a [B]LOT[/B] by saying "I disagree with the algorithm not so much #WTFU itself" [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] youtube really is its own business, just like TV so I can agree with that [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] how can he justify Tyrone lmao what is he doing he says "Where are the lines" his entire argument is based around the concept of it being 'subjective' [url]http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/[/url] Tyrone isn't transforming the work at all, he's literally just posting it in FULL. Yeah cool, he's commenting afterwards, but he's still not doing shit to alter it for proper commenting [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] "This is why I don't care about #WTFU" yeah except the whole reason people are mad is because people can make claims on their videos and steal money, more than grade-a complaining about tyrone it has far more to do with youtube ignoring peoples responses than the 'subjectivity' of it [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] "this whole idea of copyright and where fair use is concerned" "be more creative" "the real reason we're having issues with wheres the fair use is because they aren't being creative" maybe he just hasn't gotten to it yet but the whole point of #WTFU is because people are getting copyright claims on their videos over _blank_ audio he's missing the ENTIRE point [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] "just because you're reenacting the scene doesn't mean it falls under parody" "Too much content is based on others property" this is getting way too technical of course yeah he does make a good point when it comes to how big youtube is. It's very hard to determine whats what, but the fact is that people are getting claims and being ignored and can't do ANYTHING to stop it. It should be the other way around but with a proper system. You should have to go through the system to be able to claim content, not have to go through a system to claim that your content, is your content. [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] "Be more creative, don't have your content be based off of other peoples work" only problem is that people who don't actually own any of the content are just abusing the system for money. Business's are using it to silence opinions. That's where #WTFU comes from is he seriously comparing staring at a full view silently to a properly edited movie review that uses only 10 second clips, possibly even none of the footage? I think this guy should seriously consider sticking to computer shit because he clearly has no idea what he's saying it's no wonder he wouldn't know the difference though considering his videos are nothing but him talking without editing. [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] "if they take that full video isn't that advertising" he's still going on with this same point? this guy literally does not get the point, at all. [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] I don't think he understands that the problem is that people are getting strikes and not being told why, having their channels taken down over it, and all sorts of things, and that fair use is pretty much "Guilty until proven innocent". the only problem is that you CANT prove you are innocent because you have to basically take the claimant to court. That's completely unacceptable. That's the problem. That's why people are mad. They aren't mad because some dude reposted their video in full and then nodded to it, they're mad because they're having their video's that they worked on, on their channel, claimed as someone elses work. [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] "I'm not worried about copyright come-on guys its 2016" What are you even saying, what [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] he goes on, yet again about how "Fair use is basically subjective" "What I think is the definition of fair use" "whatever the hell the law is, I do not care where all this legal stuff gets decided" so your entire video didn't have a point oh my god you fucking balding idiot, go away now he's showing #FTFA and talking about how they should fix the algorithm instead. Personally I feel like fixing the algorithm and how they deal with reports is how they'll fix the entire issue so I agree with that, but that's up to google. If only he made his video about that, and not... whatever the hell this was. so basically everything before this entire video was pointless to say
He sure seems to put out a lot of videos for someone who quit youtube
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49813378]He sure seems to put out a lot of videos for someone who quit youtube[/QUOTE] he should condense his point if you need to explain your reason this much then your reason is pretty bad
He is being a idiot and nitpicking the movement that could help him and many other content creators for the sake of what being right? This guy comes off as kinda a asshole.
[QUOTE=vamper;49813499]He is being a idiot and nitpicking the movement that could help him and many other content creators for the sake of what being right? This guy comes off as kinda a asshole.[/QUOTE] this guy has no idea what he's talking about all he does is circle around what the actual issue and totally ignore the real problem he argues nothing for 45 minutes and can't get to his actual point
Then the real question is what the fuck was the point of this video?
no you guys, he's right, fair use is really subjective just the other day I went to put on the matrix, and I didn't realize until half way through that I had accidentally put on nostalgia critic's review instead and really when you think about it, what is a review? What is parody? What is fair use? just asking questions
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;49813556]no you guys, he's right, fair use is really subjective just the other day I went to put on the matrix, and I didn't realize until half way through that I had accidentally put on nostalgia critic's review instead and really when you think about it, what is a review? What is parody? What is fair use? just asking questions[/QUOTE] the point is that people are getting strikes for something that's defined in ToS and law as legal, as well as getting strikes for fair content [url]http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/[/url] [QUOTE]Commentary and Criticism If you are commenting upon or critiquing a copyrighted work — for instance, writing a book review — fair use principles allow you to reproduce some of the work to achieve your purposes. Some examples of commentary and criticism include: quoting a few lines from a Bob Dylan song in a music review summarizing and quoting from a medical article on prostate cancer in a news report copying a few paragraphs from a news article for use by a teacher or student in a lesson, or copying a portion of a Sports Illustrated magazine article for use in a related court case.[/QUOTE] from youtube itself [url]https://www.youtube.com/yt/copyright/fair-use.html[/url] and people are following this and getting strikes anyways. Some people are reviewing movies with 0% of the footage from it and getting hit. the main point really is that they can't do anything about these strikes. You get a strike, and you can't use the automated system to undo it because it won't fix the problem. Even when it is fixed, the claimant keeps the money even though it was considered false and removed. basically, someone could claim Eli's video as their own, get money off of it, and youtube wouldn't respond at all. He is guilty until proven innocent. No one will tell him what was unfair about the video or how he violated the law at all. He would get the strike and have no ability to stop it. That's the point of #WTFU, people are being told "This is what fair use is", they follow those rules, get strikes anyways, get ignored, and have their money taken.
[QUOTE=vamper;49813499]This guy comes off as kinda a asshole.[/QUOTE] That's not [I]exactly[/I] the way I'd describe Eli, but it's what he can come off as at glance. He is very strongly opinionated, and often descends into ad hominem when describing people or businesses he doesn't like. He also thinks life should be done a certain way, often saying that if you don't have at least a "40+ hour a week job" in your 20s, then you're doing it wrong, which is something I think is a deplorable expectation for high-tech industries. He also brags (or humblebrags) a lot about how successful he's been, but I see Chris Pirillo being both more successful, and a nicer to listen to.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;49813675]That's not [I]exactly[/I] the way I'd describe Eli, but it's what he can come off as at glance. He is very strongly opinionated, and often descends into ad hominem when describing people or businesses he doesn't like. He also things and life should be done a certain way, often saying that if you don't have at least a "40+ hour a week job" in your 20s, then you're doing it wrong, which is something I think is a deplorable expectation for high-tech industries. He also brags (or humblebrags) a lot about how successful he's been, but I see Chris Pirillo being both more successful, and a nicer to listen to.[/QUOTE] That is really not helping my opinion of him :v:
[QUOTE=J!NX;49813518]this guy has no idea what he's talking about all he does is circle around what the actual issue and totally ignore the real problem he argues nothing for 45 minutes and can't get to his actual point[/QUOTE] He's got a bright future as a politician.
This guy is a faggot and he's fake and those books are fake on his shelf. I watch a full hour video of his last month or some shit. If he read all those books on the shelf He wouldn't be making youtube videos .... He'd be living life 0 friend 0 wife shitty shelf noob beard need to eat more youtube is scrub tier see me on the floor of the new york stock exchange you fucking scrub nigga look like he live in a barn and protip all the book he has on shelf are for old technology like fucking 80s 90s shit that isn't even relevant like cisco + who give a fuck what he think about youtube and what kind of pedophile calls himself a computer guy? what the fuck is a computer guy?
[QUOTE=BiggotPlayer;49813741]nigga look like he live in a barn and protip all the book he has on shelf are for old technology like fucking 80s 90s shit that isn't even relevant like cisco[/QUOTE] What? holding a current CCNA isn't something to gawk at, when it comes to internetworking*[del]networking[/del] Eli does actually know what he's talking about. * CISCO® Certified term.
[QUOTE=BiggotPlayer;49813741]text[/QUOTE] are you angry at something, bud?
[QUOTE=J!NX;49813142][editline]25th February 2016[/editline] how can he justify Tyrone lmao what is he doing he says "Where are the lines" his entire argument is based around the concept of it being 'subjective' [URL]http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/[/URL] Tyrone isn't transforming the work at all, he's literally just posting it in FULL. Yeah cool, he's commenting afterwards, but he's still not doing shit to alter it for [B]proper commenting[/B][/QUOTE] Who defines this? Seriously. You? But I agree with a lot of your other criticisms. He goes in circles a lot and doesn't get to his point quickly at all.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;49813993]What? holding a current CCNA isn't something to gawk at, when it comes to internetworking*[del]networking[/del] Eli does actually know what he's talking about. * CISCO® Certified term.[/QUOTE] ad sense they're beggars in the street asking for coins like filthy frank no job no prospects no hope no girl no family no rent money but they got a camera most youtube views are faked also it makes it look like there are 22 million people on youtube but not true dont believe what you see nigga its a trap everything is a trap
[QUOTE=BiggotPlayer;49814182]ad sense they're beggars in the street asking for coins like filthy frank no job no prospects no hope no girl no family no rent money but they got a camera most youtube views are faked also it makes it look like there are 22 million people on youtube but not true dont believe what you see nigga its a trap everything is a trap[/QUOTE] :downs:
[QUOTE=BiggotPlayer;49814182]ad sense they're beggars in the street asking for coins like filthy frank no job no prospects no hope no girl no family no rent money but they got a camera most youtube views are faked also it makes it look like there are 22 million people on youtube but not true dont believe what you see nigga its a trap everything is a trap[/QUOTE] stop post
The problem with the whole "fair use has to be decided by the court" argument, is that if you go to court, for a copyright case, you'll spend millions of dollars, usually like 2-3 million to defend yourself in that case, and even if the judge agrees you're protected by fair use, they'll almost never require that the plaintiff pay your legal fees. Naturally most Youtubers can't afford to defend themselves to the tune of millions every time someone issues a DMCA against them. Secondly, these aren't regular DMCA requests. The shit going on on Youtube has no legal grounds whatsoever. The takedown system is completely 100% disconnected from copyright law. All that is happening is these companies are asking Youtube politely to take the videos down (wrongfully) and Youtube says "Sure thing buddy!" and take the video down themselves. If Youtube stopped doing that for illegitimate claims, the recourse the person filing the claim would have to take would be to ACTUALLY file a REAL DMCA claim against the alleged copyright violator. In other words, they wouldn't do shit because they know they're wrong, and aren't going to go to court in that case.
[QUOTE=FlamingBlizza;49814390]stop post[/QUOTE] Fucking my mothers so last week you should try my sister for a pussy that hasn't truly been beaten up by yours truly. But I commend you on your weak sexual instincts and lack of overall vocabularic flair. I wish you all the best in your future endeavors. f r i e n d sh i p. PS : add me. Since you're sexually active, could I get advice on girls? f a t h e r h o o d [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Threadshitting, terrible posts, was just banned" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
Eli should stick to what he's knowledgeable in and that certainly isn't copyright law.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;49814107]Who defines this? Seriously. You?[/QUOTE] Obviously not. But where does this end? Can I use Tyrones format for other media? Can I take a movie, split it into 12 parts, have my face on the side, and silently 'comment' on it and then at the end have just myself going "yeah that was really good" and then that's it? obviously that's not what you're saying, but fair use covers commenting / altering. You aren't really altering anything when you're silently nodding to the full entire video. same shit applies to SoFlo. h3h3, lewreview, grade-a all take parts of the [MEDIA] and splice the relevent bits into their own reactions, turning it into a new form of media, rather than just blankly reuploading it with their face. Tyrone doesn't really do much more than reupload entire videos with his camera over it. There is no transformative anything involved. As for who defines it, well, obviously not me (I'm assuming by "me" what you actually mean is, people who make their own versions of it), but youtube sure isn't doing much outside of giving people to claim parts of videos and putting up a definition of fair use. [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] it probably be fair use if he took only relevant bits + had commentary like here [video=youtube;n1NpC_3vfAQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1NpC_3vfAQ[/video] where it shows commentary highlights and movie highlights, though, youtube would know if that is better than me though personally I don't really agree with just recording you watching a movie and editing in just the highlights, but that's me. It's kind of like a 'lets play'... only with a movie :v:
Fair Use has a long a storied history, there is precedent to turn to and court case decisions to be used when deciding something is fair use or not. He's wrong in its subjectivity, its open to interpretation but that would require a strong case to overturn current and historic precedent. He's basically fucking wrong and because he knows computers he thinks he knows the law, AKA Engineer Ego.
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;49814405]The problem with the whole "fair use has to be decided by the court" argument, is that if you go to court, for a copyright case, you'll spend millions of dollars, usually like 2-3 million to defend yourself in that case, and even if the judge agrees you're protected by fair use, they'll almost never require that the plaintiff pay your legal fees. Naturally most Youtubers can't afford to defend themselves to the tune of millions every time someone issues a DMCA against them.[/QUOTE] So who's fault is this? That's how it goes, I'm sorry that youtube content creators can't afford to fund lawsuits like this, but this was bound to happen. In the past we had major corporations with bottomless bank accounts, and these were the only content creators in the game. Now we have any random youtuber trying to jump in the game. He's obviously not going to be able to compete with that kind of money, that's just how it goes. [QUOTE=J!NX;49815266]obviously that's not what you're saying, but fair use covers commenting / altering. You aren't really altering anything when you're silently nodding to the full entire video. same shit applies to SoFlo. h3h3, lewreview, grade-a all take parts of the [MEDIA] and splice the relevent bits into their own reactions, turning it into a new form of media, rather than just blankly reuploading it with their face. Tyrone doesn't really do much more than reupload entire videos with his camera over it. There is no transformative anything involved.[/QUOTE] Again, everything you said here is subjective. Who are you to say that Tyrone isn't altering the content? Obviously I agree with you on these cases. I had no idea who this Tyrone guy was until 2 days ago, and he is being a scumbag. But where is the line drawn? You don't get to decide that, a court does.
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;49814405]The problem with the whole "fair use has to be decided by the court" argument, is that if you go to court, for a copyright case, you'll spend millions of dollars, usually like 2-3 million to defend yourself in that case, and even if the judge agrees you're protected by fair use, they'll almost never require that the plaintiff pay your legal fees. Naturally most Youtubers can't afford to defend themselves to the tune of millions every time someone issues a DMCA against them.[/QUOTE] The point is that you can't talk about the legality of something when copyright and fair use laws are too outdated to cover this kind of content. You can argue all day about the reason why fair use applies to this and that but it remains a subjective interpretation of an already fairly vague law until it's tested in a court of law. If it was such a cut-and-dried situation people wouldn't be debating over it and companies wouldn't risk getting sued, if they knew they were likely to lose. It's a bullshit situation for content creators and Youtube is absolutely guilty of not handling this kind of stuff on their behalf and having an absolutely abysmal copyright claiming system, but until it can be proven in a court of law that certain kind of content falls under fair use companies will continue to issue strikes because they are confident of its legality.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;49815656]So who's fault is this? That's how it goes, I'm sorry that youtube content creators can't afford to fund lawsuits like this, but this was bound to happen. In the past we had major corporations with bottomless bank accounts, and these were the only content creators in the game. Now we have any random youtuber trying to jump in the game. He's obviously not going to be able to compete with that kind of money, that's just how it goes. Again, everything you said here is subjective. Who are you to say that Tyrone isn't altering the content? Obviously I agree with you on these cases. I had no idea who this Tyrone guy was until 2 days ago, and he is being a scumbag. But where is the line drawn? You don't get to decide that, a court does.[/QUOTE] Hopefully Google decides to be more open about it. I'm pretty much going all on what I read and see out of this fair use situation so yeah a lot of that's probably subjective I wish youtube would just, communicate.
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