30 Pro-Russian Separtists Dead in battle to reclaim Slovansk - Polidicks

[QUOTE]At least 30 pro-Russian separatists were killed by Ukrainian troops Monday as the government continued its push to reclaim an occupied city, the country's interior minister said. At least four Ukrainian troops were also killed and another 20 injured in gunbattles on the outskirts of Slovyansk, Arsen Avakov said in a Facebook post Tuesday that was translated by several news agencies including The Associated Press and Russia's state-run RIA Novosti. The statement was widely reported early Tuesday but appeared to have been deleted from Avakov's Facebook page by 10:30 a.m. local time (3:30 a.m. ET). The Defense Ministry said Monday a helicopter was shot down but both pilots survived, and that its forces have now effectively surrounded the city in an attempt to squeeze the occupying militias.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/least-34-killed-battle-reclaim-ukraines-slovyansk-n97886"]http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/least-34-killed-battle-reclaim-ukraines-slovyansk-n97886[/URL]

Civil war, no doubt, but I'm curious as to how is Russia planning on justifying invading with the "minority abuse" card if the separatists are armed to the teeth and killing, blowing up choppers, kidnapping (possibly torturing?), actively stifling media coverage and in general doing things that detract from their case as a just cause. Not that the pro-Kiev movement has been a paragon of humanity, but while there's ammo against both sides, it's effectively Ukraine's territorial dispute alone, therefore solely Ukraine's responsibility to rein in the chaos. Russia trying anything NOW would simply be tantamount to conventional invasion, would it not? Edit: No matter how loud the self-styled mayors cry for Putin to come and liberate them, Putin's hands are tied. The time for ill-justified invasion has come and gone. That is to say, it's not as if the pro-Russians haven't exercised violence on the pro-EU protesters and such in contested regions. Ukraine has every right to come in and "protect it's people".

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;44736254]Civil war, no doubt, but I'm curious as to how is Russia planning on justifying invading with the "minority abuse" card if the separatists are armed to the teeth and killing, blowing up choppers, kidnapping (possibly torturing?), actively stifling media coverage and in general doing things that detract from their case as a just cause. Not that the pro-Kiev movement has been a paragon of humanity, but while there's ammo against both sides, it's effectively Ukraine's territorial dispute alone, therefore solely Ukraine's responsibility to rein in the chaos. Russia trying anything NOW would simply be tantamount to conventional invasion, would it not? Edit: No matter how loud the self-styled mayors cry for Putin to come and liberate them, Putin's hands are tied. The time for ill-justified invasion has come and gone. That is to say, it's not as if the pro-Russians haven't exercised violence on the pro-EU protesters and such in contested regions. Ukraine has every right to come in and "protect it's people".[/QUOTE] The time that reasonable people would see as the time to intervene has come and gone, but I am pretty sure that Putin is not reasonable people.

Fuck yeah, people got fucking killed and their families are suffering!

[QUOTE=laserguided;44737653]Fuck yeah, people got fucking killed and their families are suffering![/QUOTE] Don't start this. You've openly supported the crackdown on protesters during the Maidan Crisis

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44737657]Don't start this. You've openly supported the crackdown on protesters during the Maidan Crisis[/QUOTE] When?

[QUOTE=laserguided;44737784]When?[/QUOTE]The whole bloody time? Talking about how awful they were and how Yanukovych needed to be fighting them and how Russia definitely had to come in to free Crimea. In the dictionary, for the word "Shill", they have "laserguided" listed under it.

[quote]At least 30 [b]Ukranians[/b] were killed by Ukrainian troops Monday as the government continued its push to reclaim an occupied city, the country's interior minister said.[/quote] Why do they always call them [b]Pro-Russian Separtists[/b] while they are [b]Ukranians[/b]?

[QUOTE=Nicolas;44737812]Why do they always call them [b]Pro-Russian Separtists[/b] while they are [b]Ukranians[/b]?[/QUOTE]Because they are separatists? And they don't want to be Ukrainian?

[QUOTE=Nicolas;44737812]Why do they always call them [b]Pro-Russian Separtists[/b] while they are [b]Ukranians[/b]?[/QUOTE] because just saying Ukrainians doesn't really do much to identify them, 30 Ukrainians could be 30 children from the orphanage down the street, it could be 30 civilians minding their own business in the streets or maybe the 30 ukrainians were the ukrainian troops who are literally killing each other.

[QUOTE=Nicolas;44737812]Why do they always call them [b]Pro-Russian Separtists[/b] while they are [b]Ukranians[/b]?[/QUOTE] because they are most likely russian trained, armed, financed, and controlled goons

[QUOTE=Nicolas;44737812]Why do they always call them [B]Pro-Russian Separtists[/B] while they are [B]Ukranians[/B]?[/QUOTE] Because they are Russian separatists? the disproportionate number of Russian flags waving among the separatist groups sort of creates the implication that they don't see themselves as Ukrainians. Separating in order to join and/or be influenced entirely by another country is not covered under the umbrella of self determination. They are a Russian subversion element, the fact that they (maybe) are born in Ukraine is not entirely relevant, considering the fact that they repeatedly identify as Russian and fight for uniquely Russian interests.

[QUOTE=Nicolas;44737812]Why do they always call them [b]Pro-Russian Separtists[/b] while they are [b]Ukranians[/b]?[/QUOTE] Because they're pro (as in supporters) towards Russia, just like there's pro-EU supporters. [QUOTE=hypno-toad;44737916]Because they are Russian separatists? the disproportionate number of Russian flags waving among the separatist groups sort of creates the implication that they don't see themselves as Ukrainians.[/QUOTE] Waving the flag of the country you want to split off from doesn't sound like a very well-thought out plan.

[QUOTE=Freakie;44737950]Because they're pro (as in supporters) towards Russia, just like there's pro-EU supporters. [/QUOTE] Regardless of your specific opinions of the EU (which might be valid), it's still an inclusive and member-based institution and participating members have their say in it's actions. Being a subordinate nation of Russia is a one way street. Supporting the EU is active participation in a union, being "pro-russian" is an automatic second-class position. [quote]Waving the flag of the country you want to split off from doesn't sound like a very well-thought out plan.[/quote] Then don't wave any flag. Why would they be waving Russian flags if they see themselves as Ukrainian nationals? This couldn't be any more obvious or overt of a Russian pan-nationalism effort.

Instead of going all-out invasion, Putin secretly supplies the separatists and sends reinforcements so that they may destabilize the country. Then, when it's beaten and on the ground, they'll officially take over the Ukraine as an act of "aid". This is how it'll go. First secretly be a dick and then openly act like you're the saviour.

Here, have a fuel for discussion. Lugansk's Atracit town welcomes renforcement for Rebels. [B]COSSACS![/B] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Ux-I_EDlw#t=66[/media] Oh my god calm down your boxes people.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;44738080]Here, have a fuel for discussion. Lugansk's Atracit town welcomes renforcement for Rebels. [B]COSSACS![/B] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Ux-I_EDlw#t=66[/media][/QUOTE] Like this won't aggravate things at all... Neither will this. [url]http://news.yahoo.com/photos/russian-lawmaker-vladimir-zhirinovsky-dressed-paratrooper-waves-driver-photo-104038300.html[/url] [img]http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/wA4GiZvGAqukKdIqXMLVVg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTY0MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz05NjA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/4c89ffc7c0736211530f6a706700ff3a.jpg[/img] Vladimir Zhirinovsky dressed as a VDV paratrooper giving his personal Tigr to pro-russian separatists.

If they secure Odessa, it'll stop rebel reinforcements from coming from Moldova. They need to transport all prisoners of war to an area west of Kiev. It is way to risky to keep rebel prisoners in the east where they can still be broken out.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44738399]If they secure Odessa, it'll stop rebel reinforcements from coming from [B]Transnistria[/B]. They need to transport all prisoners of war to an area west of Kiev. It is way to risky to keep rebel prisoners in the east where they can still be broken out.[/QUOTE] FTFY

not long until the 9th of may, or the end of the war on the eastern front. My Odessa friend said she thinks it'll be calm until then...

[QUOTE=NoDachi;44739042]not long until the 9th of may, or the end of the war on the eastern front. My Odessa friend said she thinks it'll be calm until then...[/QUOTE] If it gets any worse than it is right now, I have no words to say other than god help them.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44739484]If it gets any worse than it is right now, I have no words to say other than god help them.[/QUOTE] She said its pretty calm right now in Odessa.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;44739532]She said its pretty calm right now in Odessa.[/QUOTE] That's good, but I am just worried about the ninth, and if it'll be used as a rallying call for a greater conflict in Ukraine in general. Odessa seems to have gotten it easy in comparison to some of the cities on the ostfront in Ukraine.